A radical thing for my fluid drive

[Tired iron]

Okay, I realize this is kind of a radical thing to do to a fluid drive, and Im normally the kinda guy who likes to keep things original, but, I'm gonna do it. What? You say...Im going to weld my fluid drive up solid so it wont slip.

 

There's two reasons why: first, my seal is shot and im not going to spend 500 bucks replacing it; and second, I live up top a mountain with a mile and a half long driveway--all downhill--with five switchback s and a stretch of 16% grade. Every car and truck I own has a manual transmission, and I dont want to be on the brake pedal the whole way down my road in my Meadowbrook!

 

so, im going to drill 3/8th inch holes equally spaced (to keep the balance intact) around the outside, just carefully in thru the outer skin. Then, using my mig, i'll weld the outer and inner together at each hole. I shall turn my fluid drive into a simple flywheel.

 

New clutch, new throwout, rebuilt transmission and I'm good to go.

 

I dont know if anybody on this good forum has done this, and I'm guessing there's gonna be dome strong opinions about it, but since my seal is shot and i dont want a torque converter anyways, I think, for my situation, it's the best thing to do.

 

[FarmerJon]

Every time I read about fluid drive, I am intrigued, but glad my lowly Plymouth didn't have it. 

If you are buying clutch and rebuilding a trans already, maybe you should look at just replacing the trans with a Plymouth one. I don't know if it is just that simple, but around me there are numerous 3 speeds/driveshafts/bellhousings for sale cheap

[kencombs]

More than the fluid part, the FD kills the acceleration due to the rotating weight.  Back  in the day, dirt track racers even lightened standard flywheels to improve acceleration. 

 

Losing all that weight reduces main bearing load too.

 

Long way to say, I'd much prefer  a normal 3 spd housing, clutch and flywheel

[Bryan]

Understand that. If you changed to standard I think even the driveshaft is a different length.  Maybe drill holes and weld studs more towards the center.  Might be thicker than the outer part of the housing.

[Doug&Deb]

I seem to recall that as being a common fix back in the day but I’ve never done it. I’m not sure how easy it would be to convert to a standard clutch and 3-speed. Besides driveshaft length the crankshaft may be drilled differently.

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Doug&Deb said:

I seem to recall that as being a common fix back in the day but I’ve never done it. I’m not sure how easy it would be to convert to a standard clutch and 3-speed. Besides driveshaft length the crankshaft may be drilled differently.

Crank will be 8 bolt for fluid drive.   Flywheels can be 4, 6 or 8. But any flywheel will bolt to the 8 bolt crank flange as the bolt circle and spacing are the same.  Just some would be unused.  Drive shaft would need to match the trans and housing length    Good opportunity to upgrade unjoints.  

[greg g]

My dad was going to take his 49 wayfarer to a shop in 1956 to have his FD welded.  But the shop had a 54 Meadowbrook he worked a deal with them instead and ended up with the 54.

[grady hawkins]

I welded up my D24 FD but for some reason could not get the clutch to release all the way when changing gears.

Had to cut the welds back off!

[Tired iron]

4 hours ago, grady hawkins said:

I welded up my D24 FD but for some reason could not get the clutch to release all the way when changing gears.

Had to cut the welds back off!

Yikes, that doesn't sound like fun. Were you able to seal it back up so it didnt leak and make it a serviceable fluid drive?

[Bryan]

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=fluid+drive+seal&_sacat=0

[MarcDeSoto]

20 hours ago, Tired iron said:

here's two reasons why: first, my seal is shot and im not going to spend 500 bucks replacing it; and second, I live up top a mountain with a mile and a half long driveway--all downhill--with five switchback s and a stretch of 16% grade. Every car and truck I own has a manual transmission, and I dont want to be on the brake pedal the whole way down my road in my Meadowbrook!

I understand not wanting to spend $500 on a new seal, but on the second reason, why did you say you would have to be on your brakes all the way down the hill?  If you read the manual on how the Gyromatic works, to get engine braking going down a hill, you start the car in 1st, then step on the clutch and then you are in 2nd.  2nd gear provides engine braking going downhill because it is not free-wheeling.  Also, if you weld the FD, could you still shift up to 4th gear?  I don't know the answer.  Has anyone ever done before with good results?  

Edited March 7, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[DonaldSmith]

Does Tired Iron have the manual trans or the Gyro-Matic behind his fluid coupling? 

Would the Gyro work without the fluid coupling?  Like an overdrive (but as an underdrive)?

Inquiring minds need to know.  

[Doug&Deb]

If it’s a Meadowbrook it’s a 3-speed with fluid coupling. Welding the coupling was often done as a quick fix but I don’t know the process.

[Tired iron]

To answer you all in order...

bryan-thanks for the ebay post...I'd been looking at Bermbaum seal offerings.

marcDesoto-I dont have a Gyromatic, just a three speed with a fluid drive in front of it. Even with it in first gear my road is steep enough that I would have to rely on my brakes to keep me from picking up too much speed. I dont want to have to rely on 1950s brakes to keep me from going over the edge. If you saw my road, you'd understand!

Donaldsmith-ive got the three speed with the fluid drive.

and Doug&deb- well its good to know that this strategy was done back in the day!

 

sure appreciate the info, gang.

[MarcDeSoto]

Thanks for informing me.  I always thought that only the Wayfarer had the three speed manual after 1948, but the Meadowbrook is the low cost model to the Coronet, so that makes sense.  I think if you are going down hill in first gear with fluid drive, the impeller of the FD would become the propeller turning the crankshaft over.  If you had a regular flywheel, or welded FD, how would that slow you down more?  I'm no engineer, but would like to know.  Good luck, and I hope it works out.  

Edited March 8, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[Doug&Deb]

Just a thought but there are disc brake conversion kits available that are reasonably priced.

[Dan Hiebert]

Things that make you go hmmm.  This is the first time I've read about welding fluid-drive units.  I wasn't even aware that this was a "back-in-the-day" fix.  My first impression is shock, but then thinking about it, why not?  You wouldn't even have to keep FD oil in it, reducing the weight a tad?  You even have more carburetor options, since now you don't need the retarded throttle return.

[keithb7]

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the dry clutches used in the fluid and torque drive models are not designed for regular clutch use. Slipping and engaging the clutch under load will cause it to fail quickly.  Is that true?

[Doug&Deb]

I believe the clutch is smaller than a non fluid drive car. 9 1/4 diameter if I’m not mistaken. It probably wouldn’t hold up long term. 

[Tired iron]

43 minutes ago, Doug&Deb said:

I believe the clutch is smaller than a non fluid drive car. 9 1/4 diameter if I’m not mistaken. It probably wouldn’t hold up long term. 

You're right about the size, the clutch disc in the FD models is 9 1/4. What is the diameter in the non fluid drive models?

[Tired iron]

51 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the dry clutches used in the fluid and torque drive models are not designed for regular clutch use. Slipping and engaging the clutch under load will cause it to fail quickly.  Is that true?

I dont know, but would sure like to hear information or experience about this. The fluid drive clutch disk sure looks just like a regular disk to me, but, come to think of it, Bernbaum listed a clutch disc that was specifically for FD models. I'll have to call and ask them about that.

[Bryan]

The 9 1/4 clutch is for FD. It's what I have.   I'd make sure the handbrake with the brake pads on the drive line are good.  The plate that the clutch disk presses against is basically free wheeling (attached to a fan that is turned by fluid).  Another source for the seals and parts is the following, but you have to set up an order before they give you a quote.  Might be where everyone else is getting the parts.  https://tricomponent.com/partsearch/Torque-Converter/Chrysler/Fluid-Drive-Antique

[Tired iron]

2 hours ago, Bryan said:

The 9 1/4 clutch is for FD. It's what I have.   I'd make sure the handbrake with the brake pads on the drive line are good.  The plate that the clutch disk presses against is basically free wheeling (attached to a fan that is turned by fluid).  Another source for the seals and parts is the following, but you have to set up an order before they give you a quote.  Might be where everyone else is getting the parts.  https://tricomponent.com/partsearch/Torque-Converter/Chrysler/Fluid-Drive-Antique

Im wondering what the clutch disc that goes in a conventional 3-speed w/o a fluid drive looks like or measures. Anybody know how/if they differ?

[MarcDeSoto]

Since all MoPar makes in post war years had FD except Plymouth, I looked in a Plymouth manual.  I have a P-15 Plymouth Parts Manual, and apparently the early models had an 11" clutch disc and the later models had a 10" disc.  I'm curious how do you weld a FD together?  Do you have to saw it open first?  Do you weld the impeller to the housing?  

Edited March 9, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[Tired iron]

Interesting. So apparently, the non fluid drive "regular" clutches were bigger. Thanks for looking that up.

 

Ive run across a number of strategies for locking up the fluid drive...everything from welding to screws to filling it up with hot tar!

 

Im going to weld. first ill drain it. Then I'll drill 3/8" holes equidistant around the body of it, then rotate it just a bit so the outside holes arent lined up with the inside holes. Then ill carefully mig weld in the holes, which will fuse the inside drum to the outside drum.