Odd Roadside Breakdown...

[keithb7]

Yesterday I went on a drive with my wife to a neighboring town. About 60 miles each way. We took our '38 Royal. Hi-way speeds the whole way. The overdrive was fantastic.  We cruised between 55-60 mph. Ambient air about 80F or so. Nice day. Car seemed to run fine.  I am not quite happy with the carb still. I need to take it off and deep soak and clean of all the passages. It's actually pretty good, but I am getting picky.

 

On the way home the engine stumbled. Then quickly died. In my opinion it was not behaving like it ran out of fuel. It was like the ignition system just gave up. I coasted to the edge of the road. Glancing for a good pull-out. None were within my reach. I straddled the white line on the 4 lane hi-way. Cement barrier on the edge of the shoulder. On a hill. On a turn. Cars coming up from behind at about 60-65 mph. I was in a precarious and dangerous spot. The left side, 14" or so of my car was in the way of traffic. I quickly gave the starter a shot, turned but no fire. 

 

I opened the hood, removed the air cleaner and looked down the carb. I cycled the throttle to watch for fuel by way of the accelerator pump. All good. We had fuel.  Next I ran to the driver's side. I dug into the distributor cap. Checked all connections and points. All looked good. I used a multi-tool plier that I keep in the glove box. With key on, I pried the points open and closed. We had spark.  Hmm. Scratching my head. Got back in the car. I fired it up and it easily started. I proceeded to  drive 10 mins to the next gas station.  

 

My fuel gauge works fine. I had about ½ tank. At the gas station I threw in about another 5 gallons for good measure. Doubled checked everything in the fuel and ignition system. Fired it up. Then drove 20 mins home without any issues.

 

When I got home, I checked the dwell, distributor timing, fuel pump, set carb idle and A/F mixture screw for good measure. No issues found. The car starts very well, quickly  and idles nicely. Weird. I don't believe I had vapor lock going on. It was not that hot out. Plus I had great airflow at 55 mph. Maybe there is a gremlin in there to be found. Maybe a little flake of something, scale, rust, briefly blocked the fuel flow somewhere?  Odd. I shall stay close to town for a while here and see if it acts up again.

 

AAA card is in my back pocket. These odd occurrences only seem to happen when my wife is with me. She's a good sport and laughs it off. So far every time, I get us home under the car's own power. This time I cannot say with confidence that due to my experience, I was able to fix the car and get us home. This week I will find and buy at least one bright orange hazard triangle. The ones with reflective tape. So I can put one out on the road behind me, in the event of a breakdown in a bad spot. To warn upcoming, fast moving traffic. All it takes is a distracted driver not paying attention and I could have been...

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by keithb7

[Plymouthy Adams]

only thing I could suggest is that seeing the only thing you messed with was the points checking for spark...did you short out internally and when removed the cap and such cleared said short or if not short intermittent connection....this I would go back over real close....

[keithb7]

Thanks @Plymouthy AdamsI will pull my distributor and inspect everything very closely. Trace every wire right to the key switch.

[Sniper]

I had a coil start going bad on me, at first it would only act up after a long drive.  Once it cooled down a bit it'd fire up and run.  Eventually, it died long enough for me to figure out it was the coil.  A new one fixed it.  The real problem in sorting it out was that the coil would get hot, fail, then cool off and work.  Initially the cool down time needed was very small, basically time enough for me to poke about under the hood then it'd work when I tried the key.

[TodFitch]

Way back when I had a 36 hp VW Beetle that would occasionally act like it ran out of gas. As time went by the “occasional” became more frequent. Each time I pulled the air cleaner and checked for fuel by manually operating the throttle linkage looking for output from the accelerator pump. Each time I had fuel. Then I’d pull secondary wire from the distributor and lay it near the block and (with key on) turn the engine over to check for spark. Each time I had spark. So then I’d mutter about “have fuel, have spark, have compression. . . why won’t it run”. I‘d get in the car and try it and it would fire right up as if nothing ever was wrong. Pretty frustrating.

 

Finally, I was cleaning up my hands after one of these exercises and noticed dark wax on my hand. Wax? Where the heck did that come from? Close inspection showed a faint crack on the secondary tower on the coil. Replaced the coil and never had that problem again.

 

And while I have been typing this, @Sniper has posted the same thing. Serves me right for being slow on typing and making a long story of it. 

[plymouthcranbrook]

Back in ancient times the old guys used to occasionally talk of points sticking closed once in a while if there is a material transfer making a hill and pit situation. Their solution was to open the points manually and file them smooth then reset. I never saw this personally but can’t say it doesn’t occur.  If that was it then opening them when you did would have unstuck them and then the car started. Maybe….

[Plymouthy Adams]

that is an occurrence that is in effect an improper condenser value and the result was the pit and hill....the polarity of the coil would see the pit on one side of the contacts for neg and the other for positive ground...this is how it was explained to me in a techie session in a galaxy far far away...

Edited September 11, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[desoto1939]

As a fail safe mode get a regular 6 volt modern coil and then have some jumper wires 12g so you can connect to eh  negative cable from the ign switch armored contact and wire that to the negative contact on the new coil and then connect the positive back to the dizzy.

 

These coils are cheap around 20-25 dollars.  Also get some zip ties so you can  tie off the coil to a different location in the engine compartment.

 

At night time fire up the car in the dark and also look to see if you see blue streaks coming from the spark plug wires they maybe leaking.

 

Also could be the small wires that are on the breaker plate.  These are know to wear out and loose the covering and short out.

 

Do you have the rubber insulator that fits in the dizzy body where the metal tab sticks out to connect the wire from the coil?  The underside of this tab should have some insulator materal to prevent the shorting out of the breaker plate and this is also the reason for the rubber insert.

 

These are all just Wild ass suggestions.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

Yesterday I went on a drive with my wife to a neighboring town. About 60 miles each way. We took our '38 Royal. Hi-way speeds the whole way. The overdrive was fantastic.  We cruised between 55-60 mph. Ambient air about 80F or so. Nice day. Car seemed to run fine.  I am not quite happy with the carb still. I need to take it off and deep soak and clean of all the passages. It's actually pretty good, but I am getting picky.

 

On the way home the engine stumbled. Then quickly died. In my opinion it was not behaving like it ran out of fuel. It was like the ignition system just gave up. I coasted to the edge of the road. Glancing for a good pull-out. None were within my reach. I straddled the white line on the 4 lane hi-way. Cement barrier on the edge of the shoulder. On a hill. On a turn. Cars coming up from behind at about 60-65 mph. I was in a precarious and dangerous spot. The left side, 14" or so of my car was in the way of traffic. I quickly gave the starter a shot, turned but no fire. 

 

I opened the hood, removed the air cleaner and looked down the carb. I cycled the throttle to watch for fuel by way of the accelerator pump. All good. We had fuel.  Next I ran to the driver's side. I dug into the distributor cap. Checked all connections and points. All looked good. I used a multi-tool plier that I keep in the glove box. With key on, I pried the points open and closed. We had spark.  Hmm. Scratching my head. Got back in the car. I fired it up and it easily started. I proceeded to  drive 10 mins to the next gas station.  

 

My fuel gauge works fine. I had about ½ tank. At the gas station I threw in about another 5 gallons for good measure. Doubled checked everything in the fuel and ignition system. Fired it up. Then drove 20 mins home without any issues.

 

When I got home, I checked the dwell, distributor timing, fuel pump, set carb idle and A/F mixture screw for good measure. No issues found. The car starts very well, quickly  and idles nicely. Weird. I don't believe I had vapor lock going on. It was not that hot out. Plus I had great airflow at 55 mph. Maybe there is a gremlin in there to be found. Maybe a little flake of something, scale, rust, briefly blocked the fuel flow somewhere?  Odd. I shall stay close to town for a while here and see if it acts up again.

 

AAA card is in my back pocket. These odd occurrences only seem to happen when my wife is with me. She's a good sport and laughs it off. So far every time, I get us home under the car's own power. This time I cannot say with confidence that due to my experience, I was able to fix the car and get us home. This week I will find and buy at least one bright orange hazard triangle. The ones with reflective tape. So I can put one out on the road behind me, in the event of a breakdown in a bad spot. To warn upcoming, fast moving traffic. All it takes is a distracted driver not paying attention and I could have been...

 

That is one FINE looking 38 Royale. You almost never see the coupes,and even the 4drs seem to be rare. My first car was a 38 Royale 4dr that I bought from the family of the original ower when I was 14. Paid 20 bucks for it,and NO,it did NOT look that nice. No dents or rust out,but lots of surface rust from being parked outside.

Edited September 11, 2021 by knuckleharley

[Booger]

[DJK]

As Rich mentioned, check the wires inside the dist., I have had no start condition 2 X's due to the cloth covered wire shorting to ground. The second time was my fault due to catching the wire while installing the cap. It only took one strand of wire to cause a no start.

[Booger]

or something as simple as a condenser will leave you high and dry. keep one in your tool kit in your trunk