Anyone know Model A's?

[Sniper]

My girlfriend's grandfather has a Model A.  Seems he can't get it to start, so since I "know old cars" he wants me to take a look at it.  This will also be my first meeting with him, yay, lol.  

 

First thing I did was watch a few videos on how to start one, then read up a bit on the procedure.  Not sure if he forgot how to do it or there is an issue.

 

That is pretty much all I know about it, right now.  Anyone have any pointers that might help?  Obviously, I'll carefully inspect the car, but I've never worked on one before.  Bad gas is also in my mind.  But any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

[greg g]

http://www.model-a.org/starting.html

[Sniper]

7 minutes ago, greg g said:

http://www.model-a.org/starting.html

 

That's one I had looked at.  Thanks.

[greg g]

I would grab 4 new spark plugs, remember suck squeeze bang, blow, assure power to the coil, then do a basic ign system trouble shoot, and assure fuel delivery.  It's gravity from the cowl mounted tank so that should be easy.  The up draft carb can be problematic cuz you can't force feed gas like a down draft.

 

If it has vacuum wipers maybe you can squirt some gas or start fluid there to see if it will fire.

Edited June 27, 2021 by greg g

[Loren]

Make sure he has the battery hooked up right. Positive ground

Then the valve on the gas tank has to be open.

I’ve had the float stick in the carburetor.

Usual stuff.

Oh and retard the spark before you hand crank it. Better yet don’t try to hand crank it.

One of the reasons for self starters is the potential of kick backs.

That’s what killed the guy who owned the Thomas Motor Co. The company that built the Thomas Flyer which won the New York to Paris race of 1908.

[Los_Control]

This vid is pretty sharp on electrical for the Model A, The distributors are just a bit different then our cars while they work the same.

 

[keithb7]

Sniper you got this. It’s a no brainer for you. Automotive technical foundations are clearly understood and displayed here. 
 

Double win. You impress the girl and the dad. Maybe he’ll drop the shotgun bead he’s had on you for the past while. I’m sure they taught you in the Navy to run away in a zig-zag line anyway. 
 

Please do check back and report your findings. I’d be interested to hear how it goes. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by keithb7

[Sniper]

Run away?  Nope, just point the big guns in the proper direction, lol.  We don't get close enough for shotguns, that's what Marines are for, lol. 

 

In all seriousness, thanks to everyone for the help.  I am familiar with Ford's "better idea" thinking, lol.  Which is why I did some research and asked for help.

 

I got some more info, seems he lost electrical power somewhere, has a manual.  I should be able to fix it.  I have an awesome set of tools, I was a TV repairman, nod to PA.

 

So hopefully I can report something good next weekend.  How about that, last weekend was an 07 Honda hybrid, next weekend it'll be a Model A, how eclectic can it get?

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

43 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

So hopefully I can report something good next weekend.  How about that, last weekend was an 07 Honda hybrid, next weekend it'll be a Model A, how eclectic can it get?

 

 

 

 Call me when you get to work on a Doble steamer......

[Dennis_MN]

My first project was a model a coupe.  Biggest problem was crap in the gas tank so cleaning out the fuel filter and the carb went a long way.

[greg g]

First thing might be pull the fuel line and put somecompressed air up the line toward the tank.  Knowing Henry, he probably saved 20 cents a car by not mounting an in tank filter.

[HotRodTractor]

I've done a tune up on a couple of Model As - they are no different than anything else - make sure you have the basics and it will run. Fuel, fire, compression, timing. 

 

It sounds like you already know it doesn't have power getting to where it belongs and that is a huge first step. 

[Sniper]

Well, the details of the model A are a bit more unique than my early Mopars.  Even my 38 Plymouth was more like my 51 that a Model A.  But I think I have the differences noted, I hope.  Thanks.

[keithb7]

20 hours ago, Sniper said:

  Even my 38 Plymouth was more like my 51 that a Model A.  

Awesome, I did not know you had a 39 Plym. Which body style? Any pics shared in another thread that I somehow missed?

I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks.

[Sniper]

It was a P6 coupe, I really have no pics of it.  It was a rough shell with a locked up engine.  I ended up letting it go as personal issues at the time prevented any progress. 

[Sniper]

Back from looking at the Model A.

 

The owner replaced the key switch, wire form the key switch to the distributor and at some point had replaced the upper breaker plate with a modern update that uses musclecar era Ford points and condensor.   

 

 

Instead of this, which would also have the "benefit" of putting the condensor right next to the exhaust, a known issue.

 

 

This thing is different that is for sure.  The ignition switch is located between ground and the points, so I was really confused when I was reading 6.4V at both coil terminals with the key off.  Till I printed off a schematic to look at I was beginning to thing "what have I gotten myself into?"

 

I wasn't getting any signal from the points to the coil terminal.  The points were closed and I was still seeing 6.4v at both secondary terminal.

 

Since I wasn't at my garage and time was running out to get home I pulled the distributor and brought it home.

 

Got on it this morning, I took both the upper and lower breaker plates out, replaced the lead from the lower breaker plate to the points with a longer one that takes care of a know issue with the OEM lead being just barely longer enough and failing.  Slid down to NAPA and got new points and condensor since the old points were pretty pitted.  Cleaned everything up relubed the upper breaker plate and the breaker cam.  As I was screwing in the armored cable that contains the spring loaded connection that wires up to the ignition switch I realized that the last guy in there had not fully screwed it in and was likely not making contact.  In researching this, you can also screw it in too much shorting out the points altogether.   So I screwed it on, put a meter on it, rotated the distributor shaft and we now have working points

 

Now, I get to go back next week end, put it in, retime the engine, which is also very different, start it up, test drive it and then once I am happy can I say I fixed it.

 

 

 

 

[Sniper]

Well, update time again.  No I am not happy, lol.

 

Got the distributor back in, timed the engine put it all back together.  Pushed it out of the garage to replace the battery with a new one.  Aired up the tires, topped off the radiator (maybe a gallon), checked the oil.  Oil was way high on the dipstick, looked clean, smelled like oil.  Owner was at the airport getting 100LL gas for it.  Though I wanted to get it running before he came back I held off to verify I was reading the stick properly.  I was.

 

Some talking and he was thinking maybe his mechanic over oiled it last oil change.  Though he drove it back from there so I was doubtful.  Decision was made to try to drain off the excess.  Got under there with a pan started to loosen the drain plug and green water came out

 

Dilute Coolant.  No obvious milkshake look to it.  Owner thinks the big week long freeze in February might have frozen the block and cracked it.  Maybe.  I don't have enough coolant out of the pan to run a hydrometer test on it, yet. 

 

Well, fark.

 

Got offered the Model A for free if I wanted it.  This thing is in excellent shape, leaving the coolant issue aside.  Seems he wants it to go to someone that knows and loves old cars, no one in the family is into cars at all.  I told him I couldn't take it for free as it had value and I would not feel right about that.  So we tentatively settled on $5k with the understanding that I would look into it's actual value as is and we could adjust from there.

 

So now I have to make room for it.  Time to finally part ways with the Cuda.  He did give me $100 for my time so far, told him no thanks it was payment enough to get to fool with a Model A.  You know, that may have been what made him offer the car for free, hmm.  Geez, these things.

[Los_Control]

You sure not a girl that goes with it?

Not saying is a bad thing .... just a thing.

[Sniper]

Not sure how to pressure test the Model A's cooling system, it's an atmospheric system.  I think it might be the head gasket as I had to remove one nut off a head stud to pull the armored cable to the distributor.

[TodFitch]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

Not sure how to pressure test the Model A's cooling system, it's an atmospheric system.  I think it might be the head gasket as I had to remove one nut off a head stud to pull the armored cable to the distributor.

The Model A has a pretty low compression ratio which means it doesn’t need much clamping force on the head to keep things sealed up. On my '33 Plymouth with a 5.5:1 compression ratio and non-pressurized cooling system I have been able to remove one or more head stud nuts in order to remove or install things like the horn and oil filter. I would think the Model A would be about as forgiving and my old Plymouth.

 

Even if the cooling system is unpressurized while running, you could probably rig something up to put some static pressure on the block to check for leaks. Probably only need a couple of PSI. Maybe some block off plates for the block inlet and outlet along with a pressure gauge, valve and tire chuck. If you gently pressurize it with air then at least any leaks won’t be filling the pan with coolant.