Los_Control Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 Well you got it and thats what counts. Sometimes it helps to ask first before you jump. Stromberg is a good carb, is it stock? if it is it is seems rare to me. Most were Carter carbs stock. I am guessing the stromberg is a step above the carter. So do not feel bad. I bought my carter from Rockauto for maybe$100? Ready to use. There was a $50 core charge. So now maybe $150? I kept my original, rebuilt it, wrapped it up and set it on a shelf for future use. Now it seems they are out of stock on Rockauto, I may be a cause of that because I did not send in my core. It really may have been a better idea to ask about the carb before searching for one. The stromberg may need custom linkage? The linkage you show kinda looks right for a carter ... others can chime in about the stromberg. One tip I can offer that really confused me. These old carbs used the return spring to keep them at idle. If the spring broke, the carb would go to wide open throttle. Just saying when I hooked up my first carb, did not make sense to me. I thought it was naturally at idle. Like a more modern carb. Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted August 31, 2021 Author Report Posted August 31, 2021 36 minutes ago, Los_Control said: Well you got it and thats what counts. Sometimes it helps to ask first before you jump. Stromberg is a good carb, is it stock? if it is it is seems rare to me. Most were Carter carbs stock. I am guessing the stromberg is a step above the carter. So do not feel bad. I bought my carter from Rockauto for maybe$100? Ready to use. There was a $50 core charge. So now maybe $150? I kept my original, rebuilt it, wrapped it up and set it on a shelf for future use. Now it seems they are out of stock on Rockauto, I may be a cause of that because I did not send in my core. It really may have been a better idea to ask about the carb before searching for one. The stromberg may need custom linkage? The linkage you show kinda looks right for a carter ... others can chime in about the stromberg. One tip I can offer that really confused me. These old carbs used the return spring to keep them at idle. If the spring broke, the carb would go to wide open throttle. Just saying when I hooked up my first carb, did not make sense to me. I thought it was naturally at idle. Like a more modern carb. I really thought I had the right carb. Every bit of research I've done to this point has said this is the correct one for this car with the Gyromatic transmission. ?♂️ Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted August 31, 2021 Author Report Posted August 31, 2021 50 minutes ago, knuckleharley said: That exhaust manifold looks to be VERY repairable to me. The only drawback is that welding cast iron can be a little tricky if you don't know what you are doing,so pay a pro to weld it up. To do it right is a lot more involved than hitting it up with a wire wheel and using a brass rod to tack it together. Sounds like a good plan. I'll pull it and see if I can find someone to repair it. Quote
ccudahy Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kaharvey88 said: I really thought I had the right carb. Every bit of research I've done to this point has said this is the correct one for this car with the Gyromatic transmission. Don't get down on the choice you made on the carburetor. If you did your homework and feel its the right choice, you will make it work. That's all there is too it. Alot of people keep saying the Carter were the only carburetor used. It wasn't. I believed it so much I almost blindly bought a Carter rebuild kit and everything Carter related. Glad I slowed down and looked things over. I have a '47 Plymouth with a Stromberg BVX-3 and most books and resources say Carters were the only one for '47 Plymouth. So, I thought someone gerry rigged fix on my car, but a couple pieces of info actually list a Stromberg for '47 only. Numbers match for '47 even. So, found out I got an original odd ball. Just some friendly words of encougement. In trying to figure out what the heck was up with my carb, found a lot of Dodges used Strombergs as well as Carters linkages are interchangeable.? Edited August 31, 2021 by ccudahy Quote
greg g Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 I believe Dodges used the Stromberg due to the demands of the gyromaticsemi automatic trans mission. The wiring and electrical components on the air filter highly suggest that your car is equipped with that transmission. It also probably has an anti stall dashpot component which effects idle speed when stopped in gear with the clutch engaged. Quote
Los_Control Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Kaharvey88 said: I really thought I had the right carb. Every bit of research I've done to this point has said this is the correct one for this car with the Gyromatic transmission. ?♂️ I left myself an out for your situation ... I had no idea you had a gyromatic. Which again is kinda sorta maybe rare, and required vacuum or electrics from the carb to make it work? But a stromberg is not required for the motor to run. & because you saved the car from the crusher & it had no carb installed on it. Leaving the engine open to the weather is the worst thing in the world. Be honest it is possible the motor is toast and will not run. A $50 used carter from someone would have helped you determine if the motor will run. I imagine the transmission would not work properly with the carter ... possible you could figure out if it has forward and reverse movement with the carter carb. I am not trying to sell doom & gloom, just saying it is possible the car was parked because the transmission was bad. Or it was the motor that failed. Either way was a spendy carb so they sold that. I did pussy foot around in my last post, starting to do it again ... let me just come out and say you paid to much for a carb for a unknown engine or transmission. Your first post said you kinda just wanted to sell it. I am suggesting a $175 + shipping used carb is a little much for a unknown engine & transmission. With a little help here, you may have got some different advice before you pulled the trigger on the stromberg. If you were committed to rebuild and make everything work, you bought the right carb. If trying to check things out and resell maybe not the right carb. Hey we all love you and made mistakes ourselves. Quote
knuckleharley Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Kaharvey88 said: Sounds like a good plan. I'll pull it and see if I can find someone to repair it. Ya might want to rethink that plan. Once you unbolt it from the block,the two sections are no longer inline. Yeah,a machine shop can bolt it to a thick steel plate and then weld it so you can never tell it was ever welded,but in MY opinion it is best to contact a farm equipment dealer and get his welder to bring the mobile unit to your home and tack it together before unbolting it. Providing of course that it isn't cracked because the nuts came loose at the rear of the exhaust manifold,and that is what caused it to crack. Or it could have been cracked when a former owner tried to tighten it down too tightly due to an exhaust leak,rather than just replacing the damn gasket. He can then take it back to the John Deere/whatever shop and finish off the work correctly. Sounds like a lot of grief and money,but these old cast iron exhaust manifolds are staring to get hard to find,and pricey when you do find them, But truthfully,the best plan is to have him come and look and let HIM make that determination. If you have a trailer and want to save some bucks,make an appointment to tow the car to the farm implement dealer on your trailer and let him do whatever needs to be done right there. I am not a big fan of spending a lot of money,but I AM a big fan of spending what it takes to fix something correctly the first time. 1 Quote
Los_Control Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 My favorite story about welding up dual cast iron exhaust. The kids at the time did not know they could not cut manifolds and create duels from cast iron. So they just did it anyways. Today we have different standards. We use special welding rods & pre-heat the product . Today we claim the best ways to get the job done, and I agree ... Back in 1950 they did not know all the ins & outs and they just welded the manifolds as is. I think they did a great job and many car shows approved it .... So today I laugh at anyone that claims you can not weld cast iron. It was done by kids who never knew they could not weld it ... so they just went ahead and welded it anyways. Quote
Andydodge Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 Depending on where you live you may find that apart from the suggestion of a Farm implements shop to have the exhaust manifold welded I'd also suggest checking whether there is any Blacksmiths around as they generally have no issue welding cast iron .........I had to use a pair of stock exhaust manifolds to make a pair of "headers" as the LHD hot rod type manifolds don't fit on a RHD car due to the steering box taking up space.........have attached a pic showing the cut & welded exhaust manifolds......anyway hope things are going well with the car.....that sun visor on it is easily worth $3-400 or more as its a very stylish type, not the flat ugly board ones you see............regards from Oz......andyd Quote
knuckleharley Posted August 31, 2021 Report Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Los_Control said: My favorite story about welding up dual cast iron exhaust. The kids at the time did not know they could not cut manifolds and create duels from cast iron. So they just did it anyways. Today we have different standards. We use special welding rods & pre-heat the product . Today we claim the best ways to get the job done, and I agree ... Back in 1950 they did not know all the ins & outs and they just welded the manifolds as is. I think they anhid a great job and many car shows approved it .... So today I laugh at anyone that claims you can not weld cast iron. It was done by kids who never knew they could not weld it ... so they just went ahead and welded it anyways. I used to weld up cast iron all the time back when I was gunsmithing. No big deal as long as you run your torch a little "smokey" and take your time. Too much oxygen in the mixture will make it brittle. Pre-heating the whole damn thing is also mandatory before you even start welding. How much is dependent on the size and thickness of the cast iron you are welding. Which is an excellent reason to have a pro do it. Still,given the rarity and cost of cast iron exhaust manifolds these days,I'd rather pay a pro to do it. Edited August 31, 2021 by knuckleharley Quote
MechanicalManical Posted September 5, 2021 Report Posted September 5, 2021 Wow this car is on better shape than any thing I got! Great save! I Will be back to see it move on its own! Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted September 8, 2021 Author Report Posted September 8, 2021 IMG959632.3gp It's alive! Aside from the spitting and popping through the cracked exhaust manifold, the motor sounds great! 40 pounds of oil pressure at idle. All it took was a new set of ignition points and that old eBay carb. It really needs a proper rebuild. It doesn't like to idle very well. My plans are to rebuild the carb and then make sure the timing is dialed in. I'm assuming this was its first start since 1997. According to an oil change sticker on the windshield, the oil was changed, it was driven 5 miles and parked. My next dilemma is transmission. Can someone school me on Gyromatic transmissions?? The clutch pedal moves, but all it seems to do is pull on a big spring that's on the linkage. The clutch fork or clutch itself seems to be seized. Thanks for all the support guys! We're well on the way to getting this thing back on the road! 1 Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted September 8, 2021 Author Report Posted September 8, 2021 I'm not sure what happened, but there doesn't seem to be any audio with the video that I posted. Quote
Doug&Deb Posted September 8, 2021 Report Posted September 8, 2021 You have the correct carb for your car. A rebuild kit will have ethanol resistant parts which will prevent future problems in that area. What are your concerns about the trans. I have a 52 Coronet with the Gyromatic so I’m pretty familiar with it. Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted September 8, 2021 Author Report Posted September 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Doug&Deb said: You have the correct carb for your car. A rebuild kit will have ethanol resistant parts which will prevent future problems in that area. What are your concerns about the trans. I have a 52 Coronet with the Gyromatic so I’m pretty familiar with it. Do you know a good source for a rebuild kit? Also, do I need to run a lead substitute in the fuel? From my understanding the Gyromatic has a torque converter and a clutch. My main concern is the stuck clutch. Any ideas how to get it freed up? Quote
Doug&Deb Posted September 8, 2021 Report Posted September 8, 2021 I used a Daytona kit. No additives in the gas. Mopar started using hardened exhaust valve seats in 1935. Gyromatic does not have a torque converter just a fluid coupling. Not sure how to unstick the clutch. Try lubing all moving parts of the linkage. Hopefully others will chime in. When you’re ready to drive it let us know and we’ll explain the operation of the trans. Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted January 4, 2022 Author Report Posted January 4, 2022 Well, it's been a while since I've been on here... life has been sorta busy lately, but I was able to take some time off during Christmas. I rebuilt the carb and fuel pump and got the clutch mechanism working. I don't have a key for it so it just jumped power to the coil and to the starter solenoid. Once I got gas to the carb, it fired right up and idled so I guess I did something right. While I had it on the lift I depressed the clutch pedal, shifted it into gear and slowly let out and the tires started turning! I know I still have a lot of work ahead of me before it's ready for the road, but I feel like I made some major progress. My concern now is when it's on the ground and I put it in gear when I let out on the clutch the car tries to move before I give it any throttle. I thought with the gyromatic transmission it's supposed to sit still in gear without the clutch pedal depressed. Is it possible it's just idling too high? I haven't checked idle speed yet, but I have it set pretty low. Just by ear I'd guess it's around 600 rpms. Also, I'd love to post a couple of videos if someone could help me out with that. Quote
Merle Coggins Posted January 4, 2022 Report Posted January 4, 2022 It'll only sit still, at idle with the clutch engaged, if you have the brakes applied. Even at idle. Quote
FarmerJon Posted January 4, 2022 Report Posted January 4, 2022 I am not familiar with the Gyromatic in particular, but most cars with a torque converter will have the wheels turn at idle when off the ground. If it is pulling when on the ground and clutch let out, perhaps the idle is too high and the converter is starting to engage. Iirc idle is around 400rpm on most of the flathead 6 s. Quote
James_Douglas Posted January 4, 2022 Report Posted January 4, 2022 On 8/31/2021 at 12:16 PM, greg g said: I believe Dodges used the Stromberg due to the demands of the gyromaticsemi automatic trans mission. The wiring and electrical components on the air filter highly suggest that your car is equipped with that transmission. It also probably has an anti stall dashpot component which effects idle speed when stopped in gear with the clutch engaged. There was actually a strike at the Carter Plant that stopped production in 1946. Chrysler actually shipped cars to the dealers and then sent Strombergs out to then to put on the cars to sell. Depending on the trans, both will work. In the case of an M5 or M6 you need the version with the switches on the carb for the trans. The Stromberg is a better carb by all accounts. James Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted March 16, 2022 Author Report Posted March 16, 2022 Well I scored big time at a local junkyard. They usually don't have vehicles this old, but this one was brought in just a few days before. I really didn't know what to expect when I walked up to it, but as soon as I saw that it had a good exhaust manifold, I started wrenching! I walked out with the intake and exhaust manifolds, carburetor, and fuel sediment bowl for $20. The "flap" inside the exhaust manifold that I'm assuming opens/closes via a thermostatic coil to help warm the intake is my only holdup at the moment. I've gotten it to move slightly by tapping the shaft in and out with a hammer and brass punch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be small bushings on the shaft. The bushings will move in the manifold, but they are frozen to the shaft. I'm open to any suggestions on getting this thing loosened up. BTW If anyone sees anything that they could use off this truck I'll do my best to get it before they crush it. I'm sure it'll only be there a few weeks. 2 Quote
harmony Posted March 16, 2022 Report Posted March 16, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 12:41 PM, James_Douglas said: There was actually a strike at the Carter Plant that stopped production in 1946. Chrysler actually shipped cars to the dealers and then sent Strombergs out to then to put on the cars to sell. Depending on the trans, both will work. In the case of an M5 or M6 you need the version with the switches on the carb for the trans. The Stromberg is a better carb by all accounts. James I didn't realize that Stromberg had one barrel carbs that worked on the fluid drive set up with the M6 Transmission. What model is it that has the two electrical circuits ( kickdown & anti-stall )? Will the linkage match up the same as my Carter B&B EV1 ? 1 Quote
Kaharvey88 Posted March 16, 2022 Author Report Posted March 16, 2022 The carb model for my car is a BXVES-3. Not sure on the linkage. PM me some pics of what you have and I can compare to what's on my car. Quote
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