New fangled float needle valve

[Art Bailey]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm rebuilding my B&B carb with a kit from Bernbaum, which is apparently supplied by Daytona. I almost thought that they didn't supply a new float needle valve, because it didn't look like one (see attached pic), but I realized it's a new design. Is there any reason not to trust this new kind of valve? I haven't rebuilt a carb in 30 years, and have never seen this kind of valve. The thing that bugs me is that the seat is still a v-shaped tapered hole, and you're just depending on this little dot of rubber to seal, which isn't held in with any kind of adhesive. Thanks!

 

-Art

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would think that this style needle valve would require a matching seat that should also be serviced in the kit....

[Sam Buchanan]

Here is a good source for carb parts and advice:

 

https://www.carburetor-parts.com/bbparts.html

 

[Art Bailey]

23 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I would think that this style needle valve would require a matching seat that should also be serviced in the kit....

I just went out and checked again, and you're right. My eyes are miserable. I guess I'm leery of new aftermarket stuff---curious to know if anyone's had problems with this design. 

[busycoupe]

a couple of years ago I bought a kit to rebuild a stromberg carb.  The kit came with a needle and seat similar to what you show, except that the rubber tip was more cone shaped.  I could not get it to seal properly and replaced it with my old brass needle and seat that was still in good shape.

[belvedere]

I haven’t used this particular style of needle & seat, but in general, Daytona parts have worked well for me.

[Sam Buchanan]

Could it be that the rubber tip is installed backwards?? Can you pry it out to see if it is cone-shaped on the other end?

Edited January 5, 2021 by Sam Buchanan

[Art Bailey]

44 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Could it be that the rubber tip is installed backwards?? Can you pry it out to see if it is cone-shaped on the other end?

I did that...it's a flat disc.

[Doug&Deb]

I used a Daytona kit on my Stromberg with that design. No problem. You will need an adapter to connect your fuel line to the seat. I used a 90 degree fitting. 1/8-27 pipe thread on the male end and inverted flare female end. A straight adapter didn’t give me enough room next to the heater box (52 Coronet). The Daytona kit is ethanol resistant. I’m not sure if that explains the design of the needle and seat.

[Sniper]

I used a walker kit on my B&B and had zero need for a fuel line adapter, you can see the details on my site.

 

http://www.yourolddad.com/carb-rebuild

[Art Bailey]

14 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I used a walker kit on my B&B and had zero need for a fuel line adapter, you can see the details on my site.

 

http://www.yourolddad.com/carb-rebuild

Your blogpost was a huge help.

[Art Bailey]

Ok, so the hell with it...I'm gonna chuck the weird not-a-needle-valve in. What's the worst that could happen (reaches for fire extinguisher)?

 

-Art

[Frank Elder]

14 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Here is a good source for carb parts and advice:

 

https://www.carburetor-parts.com/bbparts.html

 

Yes Mike's is awesome.

 

7 hours ago, ratbailey said:

Ok, so the hell with it...I'm gonna chuck the weird not-a-needle-valve in. What's the worst that could happen (reaches for fire extinguisher)?

 

-Art

No.....bad idea call Mikes first, burnbomb doesn't know carbs like Mike. Although I really don' know if there is a Mike....lol.

[keithb7]

I used that same Daytona valve in a carb rebuild last summer. Worked fine. 
 

I thought it was odd too. I’d never seen one before. But like you, I thought what the heck throw it in. 

 

I’ve had no problems. 
 

 

 

[Art Bailey]

7 minutes ago, Frank Elder said:

Yes Mike's is awesome.

 

No.....bad idea call Mikes first, burnbomb doesn't know carbs like Mike. Although I really don' know if there is a Mike....lol.

Good idea, I'll see what Mike or whoever picks up the phone has to say. 

 

-Art

[Frank Elder]

12 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I used that same Daytona valve in a carb rebuild last summer. Worked fine. 
 

I thought it was odd too. I’d never seen one before. But like you, I thought what the heck throw it in. 

 

I’ve had no problems. 
 

 

 

Finally someone with first hand knowledge, Thank you Keith !

[Art Bailey]

Thanks for all the replies! I buttoned it all up with the weird valve, but I just remembered, I have an entire unused rebuild kit I found in the trunk. The receipt for it (from Bernbaum) is dated 1985, so I think the gaskets are way past their "use by" date, but at least I probably have a decent, unused needle valve and seat in there, if this one fails.

Edited January 6, 2021 by ratbailey

[James_Douglas]

Over the years I have had problems with the viton seals. I stick with the brass ones.

 

What I do is the following:

 

Drill a steel plate to take the Needle Valve seat. Screw seat into the steel plate which is in a bench vise. Then place the brass needle in it. Take a small hammer and dive it a couple of rear good hits to seat the brass needle and seat. I then take the needle valve and give it a light polish on my polish wheel.  Then I put it all in.

 

I have run the same needle and seat for 10 years without any issue in daily driving. I do have a BIG filter in the engine bay.

 

James.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you folks would freak at a Grose Jet...acclaimed superiority over that of standard needle and jet.....

[James_Douglas]

Just now, Plymouthy Adams said:

you folks would freak at a Grose Jet...acclaimed superiority over that of standard needle and jet.....

I used them in my SU's and worked great...

[Plymouthy Adams]

they great devices for sure but way way different look over the standard needle and jet...put one of these in a carb kit for the B&B and I can only guess at the run on comments......only because it is so different...

[Dodgeb4ya]

Ya know if I had purchased something I didn't quite understand what or how it worked I would call the seller or manufacturer or search online.

I want the right facts..

That funny looking needle valve has been around for years.

It originally was called a "Parker" float valve. A good one at that.

Call up Daytona and ask/learn about it.

Bernbaum wouldn't have a clue.

I have used Daytona for really old carb parts and very happy with their service.

Here is some Daytona needle info...

https://www.daytonaparts.com/m/float.html

[Sniper]

Daytona makes some irrelevant claims for it's new and improved setup.

 

They claim the plunger is aluminum and therefore non-magnetic.  So is brass and I am pretty sure I have never had a magnetism issue with my needle valves.

 

They claim the synthetic rubber they use is "highly resistant" to oxygenated fuels, swelling and loss of resilience.  Brass is impervious to all of those and when I don't want something to happen I'll take impervious over highly resistant anyday.  

 

Now it may, or may not, seal better but the original setup we have been using seems to work just fine, unless you have crud in the fuel which is a filter issue and the needle valve leaking by would be a symptom.  Though I am not sure how a bit of gunk on the seat won't keep the new fangled setup from leaking by in any case. 

 

Now I will grant that the Daytona needle valve will go full open a lot quicker, which appears to be it's only actual benefit which may, or may not, be useful on our flatheads.  Never had an issue with the bowl getting sucked dry by one though.

 

All in all, if it had one of those valves in the kit I'd run it, but I would not pay extra to replace the older style with one especially if I also had to by an adapter to make it work like some have mentioned.

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I have never used the Daytona valves.

They are nothing new and whether made of aluminum or brass thousands have been made and sold over the last 50 years or more.

.

[HotRodTractor]

2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

you folks would freak at a Grose Jet...acclaimed superiority over that of standard needle and jet.....

 

There are Grose jets in the carbs on my P15. The day I bought the car I had to pop one of them out and loosen up the ball bearing as it was stuck. I haven't touched them since. I suspect that Don's car had been sitting for 4 or 5 years at that point (although I don't know that for fact).