Need Help with Valve Adjustment

[RatMan]

Hey Everyone,

 

Thanks in advance for reading.

So I was adjusting the valves on my P24 for the first time over the weekend and I came across some peculiar items.

 

First off, I started by adjusting per the tech tips which are copied and pasted below.

 

Exhaust valve clearance .010
Intake valve clearance .008

Stage A, #1 and #6 at TDC, #1 in firing position
Stage B, #1 and #6 at TDC, #6 in firing position
To move from Stage A to B, manually turn the engine 1 revolution.

Stage A – Adjust #1 Both valves, #2 Inlet valve, #3 Exhaust Valve, #4 Inlet valve, #5 Both valves.
Stage B – Adjust #2 Both valves, #3 Inlet valve, #4 Exhaust valve, #5 Inlet valve, #6 Both valves.

 

1) The first thing that I noticed is that when I went to adjust per the sequence above is that it was backwards.

     So when I set it to TDC on the #1 cylinder firing (rotor @ 7 o'clock) , I was able to adjust Stage B and vise versa.

     To me, this seems like the distributor is 180 out. But the car was running like this all last year.

     Is it possible for these motors to run 180 out? Or is something else maybe messed up that I cant think of?

 

2) I decided to lash the valves anyways while I figured that out.

     I found that the valves that could be lashed on either Stage A or Stage B where not repeatable after rotating the motor 1 revolution.

     So #2 inlet and #5 inlet would not repeating every time the motor was turned over.

     I forgot which was which, but on one stage they would be good and the next they would either be too large or not enough gap.

     Once again, is there something wrong I am not catching or should I just split the difference between the two?

 

3) Some of the adjusters of the tappets seemed to be fairly easy to turn. What is stopping them form turning and adjusting while running?

 

Additional background info (not sure if needed but just in case), I did have the motor out last year to re-seal it and replaced the timing chains. I am fairly confident that they where installed properly. Im not sure if improper install could cause it to be 180 out. Also, I am adjusting these cold since the intake and manifold are currently off so I added .002 to both intake and exhaust.

 

Thanks again to all in advance.

 

Ryan

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

when looking at TDC on the balancer and associated timing mark, did you establish the position of the rotor in the distributor to verify you were actually TDC#1 ?  If running good, this is you guarantee of correct starting point to adjust the valves.

[RatMan]

Yes. I was at TDC on the balancer and the rotor was pointed at 7 o’clock. But at that time I was not able to adjust all the valves listed in Stage A. But I was able to adjust all the valves in Stage B. That’s why it seems like it’s 180. But that doesn’t make sense to me. I feel like it wouldn’t run if it was 180 out. 

[maok]

A simpler, though slightly longer way of adjusting the valves is to just follow the distributor rotor, ie, start with #1 adjust inlet&exhaust, turn engine, #5 adjust inlet&exhaust, turn engine, etc 153624

[RatMan]

Thank for the info guys. Any ideas about questions 2 & 3?

[9 foot box]

   I don't think you should add .002 to a cold setting. Set them to what the book say's. Mine says .010 intake and .013 exhaust, cold. After run up and at operating temp, adjust the tappets at idle to .010 for int. and exh., or .012 for exh., if you do a lot of highway driving. Otherwise the book would say to do that as a short-cut. And end up with a stuck exhaust valve.

[Merle Coggins]

First of all... You said that the rotor is pointing at 7 o'clock, but which plug wire is connected at that point? Your distributor may be 180 off and the plug wires are connected to match it.

 

Second... There appears to be a mistake in the instructions. For Step A it should include #2 Intake and #5 Exhaust (not both), and for Step B it should include #2 Exhaust (not both) and #5 Intake. The only cylinder that you would set both valves on would be the one in firing position, eg. #1 or #6

[Adam H P15 D30]

I've always added .001 intake and .002 exhaust when I set them cold, sometimes a little more.  The gaps close over time and also every time the engine heats up.  Remember, "slappy valves are happy valves."  I have been doing this for years and I have never set them hot, ever...

[thebeebe5]

 If you are getting variations in the lash that you set when you turn the motor over then you probably are not adjusting the valves with the tappet on the base circle of the camshaft. That could account for variability in your valve adjustment from rotation to rotation as you address in question number two.  I use the EOIC method.   On any cylinder with the exhaust valve beginning to open the inake lifter will be on its base circle.   With the intake about 1/2 closed the exhaust valve will be on its base circle. It’s easiest if someone can hand crank the engine over for you and you can stay put and watch the lifters, then make your adjustment.  

 

You’ll get lots of different opinions and advice on this.  There are more than one way to skin this cat.   This is how it’s easiest for me on all my engines with solid lifters. 

[Don Coatney]

Best way to adjust the valves is with the engine running. Then you don't have to worry about all the above discussions. 

[casper50]

except you have to be a double jointed contortionist with burn resistant skin able to work without seeing what you are doing to do that.

[Plymouthy Adams]

toughen up, be a man, skin grows back, a burnt offering to the old car gods if you will...earn your passage, put a brick in the road.........?

[casper50]

no thanks.  I've had 2nd and 3rd degree steam burns over 20% of my body.  Been there done that.  No more.

[Plymouthy Adams]

burns are not fun...but in adjusting valves on a running flathead, expect a bit of heat here and there...wearing adequate protection is a must.....they made hydraulic lifters for a reason...

[maok]

11 minutes ago, casper50 said:

no thanks.  I've had 2nd and 3rd degree steam burns over 20% of my body.  Been there done that.  No more.

You needed ReCell.

[casper50]

I don't remember the first week in the hospital. 2nd week I remember vividly.

[tom'sB2B]

I just adjusted my valves. I did it while engine was hot and running. It’s nice to hear the sound of the tappets as you are adjusting them. I would recommend using longer wrenches and wear long sleeves and tight leather gloves so you can grip the wrench and feeler gauges. I also separated then feeler gauges from the group, which made it much easier to handle. Just make sure you keep your gloves on. I made a hasty mistake and paid for it!

[maok]

3 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

Best way to adjust the valves is with the engine running. Then you don't have to worry about all the above discussions. 

 

Or pay someone else to do it....lol

Edited March 26, 2019 by maok

[RatMan]

Thanks for all the input everyone. So i did find that my distributor is 180 out (pointed at 1 oclock) but my wires are all ran that way as well. I don't think it should make a difference but im gonna but it back to the way it should be anyways. im gonna set the cold lash for now and ill check it hot again once its running. Im waiting on some new int/exh studs right now.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the position of number 1 is of no consequence if the wires are index on the cap towers to match the 180 out....

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 hour ago, tom'sB2B said:

I just adjusted my valves. I did it while engine was hot and running. It’s nice to hear the sound of the tappets as you are adjusting them. I would recommend using longer wrenches and wear long sleeves and tight leather gloves so you can grip the wrench and feeler gauges. I also separated then feeler gauges from the group, which made it much easier to handle. Just make sure you keep your gloves on. I made a hasty mistake and paid for it!

 

 

that's a boo-boo......I got a similar one but in form of ripping a sizeable chunk of arm meat away on a door hasp......bone head move but one that you just don't think will happen till it does.

[tom'sB2B]

Merle made this great video. Could help.

 

[greg g]

Did mine cold while the engine was still on the stand  Added 2 thousanths to the cold setting.  That was 45000 miles ago.  They are still happy.

[jgreg53]

Casper, i hope you removed the lower part of the inner fender to gain easier access to the valves.

[keithb7]

My understanding is when the engine is hot, valve temps may vary depending on their position. Father to the rear tend to run a little hotter due to less coolant flow inside, and air flow around the head. This is why setting them hot, is best practice. I did check my valves while running. The ones that needed a little tweak, I recorded. Then I turned off the engine and set them. Then I flashed up the engine again to check with a feeler gauger. Checking them while running gives very good assurance that you've got it right or wrong. You can feel and tell right away. Either the gauge won't go in, or it gets snugly tugged in by the rotating tappet. On these engines the  firing order is 1,5 3,6,2,4. Thats a piston at TDC in firing position every 120 degrees. In said order. As seen below here:

 

 

I put #1 at TDC, using crank shaft marks. Can be verified with the eraser end of a long enough pencil down the spark plug hole. Set #1 close, both intake and exhaust. Turn crank by hand 120 degrees and set 5, then repeat and set 3, etc through all cylinders at TDC. This will take two full revolutions of the crank.  Get it close, cold. Then fire up engine and get it hot. Final check while running. Then set again as needed.

 

This is my take on the process:

 

http://blob:https://www.youtube.com/09c7e9f3-6633-49e8-b1cf-92fdd05fa8ef

 

The first time I attempted to set my valves I got it wrong. I did not think things through. I set some valves with the tappets on the rise or fall ramps of the cam shaft. Unbeknownst to me. The car ran unbelievably quiet. I was so proud of myself. But Pride comes right before a fall they say....I proceed to test drive around my neighbourhood. I stopped to chat with a pal about 1/2 a mile from my home. I could hear something was not quite right when I got out of the car. I could hear the engine not running smooth, now that things had all heated up. My friend invited me in for a quick beer. I hesitated as my inner voice of reason was nagging at me not to turn off the engine. I ignored my gut as the cold beer was too much to pass up. 15 mins laster. Crank, crank crank. No start. The epiphany hit me and I knew I screwed up the valve set. I coasted as close to home as I could get. Then a tow strap was needed. Then the last incline we had to push the monster. It was sooo heavy. At that time I had not fully understood that my brakes were partially sticking on.  I had not addressed that problem yet. We were pushing what felt like the titanic while the brakes dragged. I got the car in my driveway, we collapsed on the lawn and had a good laugh. I proceeded to research further to set the valves right. Then, I made this video while I was at it. To save others the problems I I caused myself. LOL. Ah, the joys for a newbie trying to reset their mind back to 1953 automotive technology.

Edited March 30, 2019 by keithb7