V8 conversion for my 47 P15 sedan

[knuckleharley]

1 minute ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

 Take your time and do the best job you can and make it SAFE.  If you find yourself cutting corners, take a break and walk away for a while.  Sit down and think of a plan and stick to it as best as you can. 

Adam

Some of the best advise ever given.

[YukonJack]

19 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

I bought a P-15 coupe with a 78 Camaro frame clip,motor,trans,and rear,and it rides,drives,and handles like a dream. The frame clip mated to the P-15 chassis VERY nicely,but the previous owner did a horrible job of finishing it off. Practically no bracing and what was there was only tacked into place. Also,the engine was only bolted down on 1 side,and the trans wasn't bolted down at all. It was just sitting on two short "L" brackets that had been tacked to the chassis.

My favorite part was it was slopped together so quickly whoever did it didn't notice the speedo cable wrapped around the a ebrake cable,so they "fixed" the transmission leak by wrapping the tailshaft  with paper shipping tape. Seriously. They didn't even use duct tape,which at least would have held back SOME of the ATF as it headed towards the highway.

Still,I can't complain. I got it REALLY cheap and most of the repairs were inexpensive and mostly involved nothing more than welding and a few bolts and nuts,and a old GM factory trans mount crossmember I had laying around.

The only real drawback I see to this is that using motor mounts in the stock location on the frame clip puts the rear of the engine so close to the firewall that a lot of head radiates from the engine to the firewall,but if I moved the engine forward it would cause radiator clearance problems. The front wheels are perfectly centered in the fender openings,though.

The engine in it was a junker 305 and the transmission was a piece of crap Turbo 205 that doesn't rise the status of crap,so they are coming out anyhow to be replaced by a balanced and blueprinted 412 SBC that probably puts out a little north of 425 HP,and a rebuilt Turbo 350 with a hi-po shift kit and valve body. When I make the swap I will just recess the firewall a inch or two to make sure  it doesn't heat up the interior of the car so much.

 

I've never been a fan of Camaro or Nova sub frame swaps. They seem to be too wide and the front wheels are positioned too far out of the fenders. Looks odd to me. I've heard another popular front frame swap is the Chevy S10.  

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, YukonJack said:

I've never been a fan of Camaro or Nova sub frame swaps. They seem to be too wide and the front wheels are positioned too far out of the fenders. Looks odd to me. I've heard another popular front frame swap is the Chevy S10.  

Look at the photos of my P-15 on this thread. The wheels are centered perfectly,and even those wide tires on the GM Rally wheels clear the rear fenders and the body on both the front and the rear.

[Adam H P15 D30]

I used the Fatman narrow control arms on my clip.  Tucks them right under

[wayfarer]

 

7 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Not very fast at the moment because I always seem to take it apart...  Decided to make it one color and maybe put some sort of interior in it, wife insists. The few times I have driven it and stood on it, went pretty good.  It handles very well but traction is sometimes an issue   It's one of those filler projects that progresses between real projects.

To the O.P.  Point here is put what ever floats your boat in it.  It's your car and you should only have to please yourself and nobody else.  Take your time and do the best job you can and make it SAFE.  If you find yourself cutting corners, take a break and walk away for a while.  Sit down and think of a plan and stick to it as best as you can.  Always remember, there only needs to be 1 pristine original example of every car, the rest can be hotrodded!

Adam

 

7 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

Some of the best advise ever given.

I agree! good stuff right there.

[MarkAubuchon]

WOW, my 47 Flathead runs strong, its got plenty of George Asche high performance parts and tuned right. This car has been driven to Portland OR, up Pikes Peak, across upstate New York into Vermont. Disc Brakes. OD, 8 3/4 with 355 gears amd get 22 MPG.  ABTW with all of these modifications it stilled scored high enough to get a 2nd place at the 2008 POC meet.  Just thought I'd ask.  I love a spirited debate.  

[Young Ed]

12 hours ago, MarkAubuchon said:

  ABTW with all of these modifications it stilled scored high enough to get a 2nd place at the 2008 POC meet.  Just thought I'd ask.  I love a spirited debate.  

You coming to 2018???

[greg g]

Hey Ed, we are planning to be in Michigan with a northeast posse.  Can we talk you into doing the WPC event in Chattanooga, Tn. in late Sept?  Talked to Mark A last week he is up for both we also have friends with a 51 and another P 15 that we are twisting arms on.  Mark D with his new convert also, 

[55 Fargo]

16 hours ago, MarkAubuchon said:

WOW, my 47 Flathead runs strong, its got plenty of George Asche high performance parts and tuned right. This car has been driven to Portland OR, up Pikes Peak, across upstate New York into Vermont. Disc Brakes. OD, 8 3/4 with 355 gears amd get 22 MPG.  ABTW with all of these modifications it stilled scored high enough to get a 2nd place at the 2008 POC meet.  Just thought I'd ask.  I love a spirited debate.  

So where is this going?

V8 conversion or keep the faith Chrysler flathead 6s.

Sounds like you dont need anything changed..

Stir the pot is okay it generates creativity..

[Young Ed]

3 hours ago, greg g said:

Hey Ed, we are planning to be in Michigan with a northeast posse.  Can we talk you into doing the WPC event in Chattanooga, Tn. in late Sept?  Talked to Mark A last week he is up for both we also have friends with a 51 and another P 15 that we are twisting arms on.  Mark D with his new convert also, 

late sept probably not-kids will be in school

[dale]

On 11/15/2017 at 5:20 PM, 59bisquik said:

Just my 2 cents...

My first choice would be an early hemi. They look super tidy under the hood with the nice wide valve covers and hidden spark plug wires. However, they can be a bit spendy to build.

Second choice would be the 318-340-360 route equipped with some finned valve covers, retro air cleaner etc.

And of course just my opinion, but keep it Mopar and no V6 or frame swaps!

Not even a V-6 with 300 HP out of the new Chrysler 300 that I was looking at yesterday ?

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 hour ago, dale said:

Not even a V-6 with 300 HP out of the new Chrysler 300 that I was looking at yesterday ?

actually I think they 305...it is more than enough for this ole boy, I like the late model V6 and the Pentastar 3.6 is as you said, no slouch....I have the 283 HP 3.6 in my newest van and it surprised most everyone the power it has.

[dale]

15 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

actually I think they 305...it is more than enough for this ole boy, I like the late model V6 and the Pentastar 3.6 is as you said, no slouch....I have the 283 HP 3.6 in my newest van and it surprised most everyone the power it has.

I would think it would be a nice fit in an old Plymouth.  Lot of work with the fuel and electrical systems though.  Didnt GM have a straight 4 cyl. in pickups with quite a bit of stock HP ?

[MackTheFinger]

33 minutes ago, dale said:

 GM straight 4 cyl. 

GM ran the old Iron Duke in S-10s for quite a while. It was a good motor but not that many around anymore. There are lots of 2.2 motors around but they are fairly well known to have cylinder head problems. 

[MarkAubuchon]

Ed, Yes I am planning on going to the POC meet in Michigan and if the stars align also the WPC in Tn.  Mark

[59bisquik]

On 11/21/2017 at 2:17 PM, dale said:

Not even a V-6 with 300 HP out of the new Chrysler 300 that I was looking at yesterday ?

Nope... it’s the principle of it. It’s like buying a new Challenger, Mustang, Camaro etc with a V6. I don’t care if they put out 800hp and fly... they should be V8’s plain and simple. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by 59bisquik

[Eneto-55]

On 11/16/2017 at 11:28 AM, wayfarer said:

3 or 4 years ago I went to a car show where the owner had used the front dakota frame with motor, cut the P15 frame overlapped them and welded them together. Kept the look stock, used the column shift to shift the automatic.

The Gen I Dakota swap is popular for many reasons and none of them will appease those who don't like hot-rods of any sort. Some of you guys like to brag about all of your engine and trans modifications but scoff at a frame clip. Whats the deal? What makes a dual carb swap ok but not disc brakes? Seriously,  I gotta know so that I can try to figure out the logic (assuming that some exists).

We are blessed with modern suspension, brakes and the ease of installing a newer engine (that some of us prefer) so whats not to like?

My personal feeling about frame clip swaps is that after 15 - 20 years, you just have a non-original old car with a mix-match of parts, and with suspension parts that may not be available because they are old, but not old enough to be available as restoration parts.  Disk-brake upgrades are a different case, because the changes are reversable, or later model parts can be substituted when the upgrade is no longer the best available.  But the main thing I'd say is to document the sources for any upgrades, so that later you or another owner will know what parts are being used.  How many times do you see posts on hotrodding sites where a guy is trying to identify a non-original part on a car someone else built?

[Plymouthy Adams]

4 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

My personal feeling about frame clip swaps is that after 15 - 20 years, you just have a non-original old car with a mix-match of parts, and with suspension parts that may not be available because they are old, but not old enough to be available as restoration parts.  Disk-brake upgrades are a different case, because the changes are reversable, or later model parts can be substituted when the upgrade is no longer the best available.  But the main thing I'd say is to document the sources for any upgrades, so that later you or another owner will know what parts are being used.  How many times do you see posts on hotrodding sites where a guy is trying to identify a non-original part on a car someone else built?

I see you point but at the same time if the swap is one that is generally accepted in the rodding industry it will be sustained in the future with availability of parts...the Mustang II enjoys such a following and how long has that been?  And, if the donor suddenly becomes a vehicle of attraction, odds are, even it may enjoy a retro fit of a modern front suspension...this is what makes this fun....the ability to do what you want and push forward without the need to rely on others to follow along.  Some cannot accept that challenge an to that end we understand.

[Eneto-55]

2 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I see your point but at the same time if the swap is one that is generally accepted in the rodding industry it will be sustained in the future with availability of parts...the Mustang II enjoys such a following and how long has that been?  And, if the donor suddenly becomes a vehicle of attraction, odds are, even it may enjoy a retro fit of a modern front suspension...this is what makes this fun....the ability to do what you want and push forward without the need to rely on others to follow along.  Some cannot accept that challenge an to that end we understand.

Yes, I suppose it means that a person should think about that potential later interest in the donor car as a part of the decision on what parts to use.  It can be a gamble, sure, but by the time the donor cars are becoming available at reasonable prices, there might well already be indications of future demand.  It might make the original outlay a bit higher, but in the long run may be the better choice.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I use Dakota front clips, these vehicles have proven themselves on the highway and the parts to sustain these front suspensions are readily available and moderately priced.  I feel the following will continue, you can easily search for 1988 Dakota parts and see exactly what I mean, all components are low cost and high availability.  This vehicle is coming up to 30 years of age, given the industry is only required to support a model for 10 years, we have a remarkable following established already.  But yes, I agree, if you entertain such clips that may not be a highly successful model at time of production, note the source, and if you intend to keep the modified vehicle, lay aside a few rebuilt parts to sustain your build and protect your time and money invested...regardless of any source, I agree 100% to document you donor parts in a ledger.  I keep mine logged in a build notebook and if and when I should move the vehicle to a new owner, that book rolls forward with the vehicle.  

[55 Fargo]

5 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I use Dakota front clips, these vehicles have proven themselves on the highway and the parts to sustain these front suspensions are readily available and moderately priced.  I feel the following will continue, you can easily search for 1988 Dakota parts and see exactly what I mean, all components are low cost and high availability.  This vehicle is coming up to 30 years of age, given the industry is only required to support a model for 10 years, we have a remarkable following established already.  But yes, I agree, if you entertain such clips that may not be a highly successful model at time of production, note the source, and if you intend to keep the modified vehicle, lay aside a few rebuilt parts to sustain your build and protect your time and money invested...regardless of any source, I agree 100% to document you donor parts in a ledger.  I keep mine logged in a build notebook and if and when I should move the vehicle to a new owner, that book rolls forward with the vehicle.  

Okay great better than an S10 swap and still.Mopar and relatively cheap.

How much do you drive these now and how long are your trips?

Do you have pics of your conversions?

[65 Dartman]

On 11/25/2017 at 3:44 PM, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Okay great better than an S10 swap and still.Mopar and relatively cheap.

How much do you drive these now and how long are your trips?

Do you have pics of your conversions?

I'd love to see pics of the Dakota swap!

[dale]

On 11/24/2017 at 12:21 PM, 59bisquik said:

Nope... it’s the principle of it. It’s like buying a new Challenger, Mustang, Camaro etc with a V6. I don’t care if they put out 800hp and fly... they should be V8’s plain and simple. 

Well the car came with a six cyl and he wanted an easy installation so sounds like another Chrysler corp. six cylinder thought be it a V-6 sounds good to me.  The car isnt a duce coup.

[59bisquik]

Totally missed the point. But some people must be happy with V6’s I guess...

The wife and I have adapted the thought process of “life is to short to drive boring crap”. We no longer care what the mpg is or how much tires cost. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by 59bisquik

[John-T-53]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 8:02 AM, MackTheFinger said:

GM ran the old Iron Duke in S-10s for quite a while. It was a good motor but not that many around anymore. There are lots of 2.2 motors around but they are fairly well known to have cylinder head problems. 

The iron duke's still power the USPS delivery vehicles. There are thousands still roaming the streets daily. When the USPS replaces these vehicles with the next generation, there might be a surplus of used and abused 'dukes available, if you're into that sort of thing....