52 Dodge trans swap

[uglysteve]

I'm looking at swapping a TH350 into my 52 Dodge Meadowbrook. I have a couple options, I was considering keeping the flathead six and getting an adapter for the TH350. Or, I have a 283 SBC from a 57 bel air I can put in as well. I know what everyone says "dont put an SBC in a mopar blah blah blah" but the thing is kind of a "rat rod" I guess. It was a 4 door that some guys in my club built a long time ago. They made it into a 2 door roadster (no top). It's cool and I got it dirt cheap, so I'm not concerned about keeping it original or all mopar or anything. Just trying to use what I've got in the garage to make it easier on me.

 

The only reason I'm going automatic is I have a bad knee and I've tried driving it around with the 3 on the tree and it's just not worth it for me to be so sore after cruising around town. I'd like to comfortably go longer distances.

 

So, I have a few questions. I've read that putting an auto trans behind the 6 will be horribly slow. And the adapter and flywheel kit for that swap is 800 bucks. So cost and HP have me leaning towards the SBC.

 

I'm wondering if anyone can give advice on either SBC and trans swap, or if anyone has put a automatic behind the flathead 6 and what fabrication is involved with that. I have no idea how the 6 mounts to the frame or anything. It looks like the only mounts are by the bellhousing. Is that right?

 

Thanks!

[austinsailor]

I've done no swaps, but I have owned a flathead 6 mated to a powerflite. (2speed automatic, 55 Plymouth). Not a speed demon, but gets you down the highway at respectable speeds. About 60 mph at around 21 seconds in the quarter mile drags, as I recall. Powerflites were a factory setup behind the six and require few modifications, just a search for parts. I gave away 2 recently.

I'm not suggesting this is the way you should go, just passing info hopefully to help you sort it out.

I suspect a 3 speed torqueflite would also be a bolt up option, but someone else will have to verify that.

Gene

Edited June 8, 2016 by austinsailor

[greg g]

There is a front mount part of Cryslers floating power system. The e brake is on the transmission so a rear end swap will be in order also if e brakes are part of your plan. If you go with a gm trans you will need to fabricate a rear cross member. Later flat head 6 engines with auto were no worse than Chevy six with power glides or ford six with ford o magic.

[knuckleharley]

Since economics seem to be a concern,I'd look around for a mid-50's to 59 Mopar auto because if you get all the associated parts it would be a virtual bol-in.

 

The bad news is they are getting hard to find. The good news is there is almost zero demand for them,so if you find one chances are the owner will be happy to sell it all cheap.

 

I'd like to find one myself for my 42 Dodge coupe to have when my left leg gets amputated and I can't operate a clutch anymore.  Yeah,I have a couple of 318's and 904's,but I want to keep a flat 6 in it.

[deathbound]

If you're not a fabricator, here's an engine/trans mounting kit. I have not used it, just saw it recently.

http://www.butchscoolstuff.com/42-53-plymouth-41-53-dodge-sb-chevy-engine-transmission-mount-kit-2192cp/

 

**EDIT** BTW, do what you want, it's your car.

Edited June 8, 2016 by deathbound

[uglysteve]

There is a front mount part of Cryslers floating power system. The e brake is on the transmission so a rear end swap will be in order also if e brakes are part of your plan. If you go with a gm trans you will need to fabricate a rear cross member. Later flat head 6 engines with auto were no worse than Chevy six with power glides or ford six with ford o magic.

OK good to know. I am planning to put a 9" rear under it as well. So no worries about the E brake.

 

Since economics seem to be a concern,I'd look around for a mid-50's to 59 Mopar auto because if you get all the associated parts it would be a virtual bol-in.

 

The bad news is they are getting hard to find. The good news is there is almost zero demand for them,so if you find one chances are the owner will be happy to sell it all cheap.

 

I'd like to find one myself for my 42 Dodge coupe to have when my left leg gets amputated and I can't operate a clutch anymore.  Yeah,I have a couple of 318's and 904's,but I want to keep a flat 6 in it.

Yeah I'm just trying to do it cheap so I can still afford to keep working on my 48. Like a fun little side project. I suppose if i found a 50s mopar auto for cheap/free that might be a good idea.

 

If you're not a fabricator, here's an engine/trans mounting kit. I have not used it, just saw it recently.

http://www.butchscoolstuff.com/42-53-plymouth-41-53-dodge-sb-chevy-engine-transmission-mount-kit-2192cp/

 

**EDIT** BTW, do what you want, it's your car.

I saw that too. I think I could make all those pieces but I have emailed them about it. That's still a less expensive option than the $800 adapter for the stock motor.

 

Thanks for the help so far guys I appreciate it.

[wayfarer]

 There is more to an auto trans swap than just an adapter. You will also need 12v for the starter and you will need to connect the 'kick-down' (what-ever gm calls it) and some shift linkage. The th350 has a lot of parasitic loss that will affect the L6 output.

The 9" rear sure seems to be overkill in the weight dept and it also has higher parasitic losses than other hypoid designs (like the 7¼ Mopar).

$800 for an adapter??   :eek:   Is the car worth that much? 

 

Your direction is certainly not where most of us would head but, as said, your money-your car.

[knuckleharley]

OK good to know. I am planning to put a 9" rear under it as well. So no worries about the E brake.

 

Yeah I'm just trying to do it cheap so I can still afford to keep working on my 48. Like a fun little side project. I suppose if i found a 50s mopar auto for cheap/free that might be a good idea.

 

I saw that too. I think I could make all those pieces but I have emailed them about it. That's still a less expensive option than the $800 adapter for the stock motor.

 

Thanks for the help so far guys I appreciate it.

I disagree about the starter. I have ran 6 volt starters with 12 volt systems since I was a kid.

 

Spot on with the rest of it,though. Especially the 9 inch rear. I will never understand why so many people seem to think they need some sort of monster strength rear in  car with a mild street engine that makes less than 400 hp at the rear wheels. Even if you do have that kind of HP you don't need a 9 inch rear unless you have a drag race rear suspension that makes the tires hook up. Spinning tires doesn't cause rears to come apart. Tires hooking up with no wheelspin are what kills rears,and nobody sane even wants a drag race rear suspension on a car he just cruises with.

[Young Ed]

I disagree about the starter. I have ran 6 volt starters with 12 volt systems since I was a kid.

 

That is true but I believe in this case you'd be using a starter that matched the automatic which would be 12v.

[knuckleharley]

That is true but I believe in this case you'd be using a starter that matched the automatic which would be 12v.

OUCH! Ya got me!

 

I stand partially corrected. You could use a auto trans out of a 55 or earlier Ply or Dodge,and still use your 6 volt starter,but you would definitely have to swap starters if you used the GM engine and/or trans.

 

BTW,it just occured to me that I have a 2 speed auto trans and torque converter out of a 55 DeSoto with the 291 hemi under a bench in my shop. Does anyone know if it will bolt to a flat 6?

[mopar_earl]

How about put a semi auto (Gyro-matic) or straight up 3 speed with the fluid coupling. That would greatly reduce clutching to starting and reversing. Usually you can find fluid couplings and semi autos cheap to free.

Being a 52, it should have the fluid coupling with a 3 speed standard unless someone altered the car. They only had two options, 3 speed with fluid drive or semi-auto Gyro-matic for 52 Dodge.

Earl

[Plymouthy Adams]

tranny swap should be considered an upgrade...and as how the man states he has no real concern for stock engine as he stated a brand X swap...if you going to cut the car, why not do it right and upgrade to something a bit more modern all the way around...you can get salvage cars complete for little cost....do the swap...bring your car into the correct century and go merrily on your way.....it all is going to be a bit involved..just what do you want from the beast when finished is the only question one must answer.....

[mopar_earl]

He is also pondering keeping the Flathead. That's why I said about the dirt cheap to free semi-auto or fluid drive. Options are very limited for a full auto on a Mopar flathead and expensive.

I myself would drop a complete modern fuel injected drivetrain in the car, if I was in need of an auto trans.

Earl

[Plymouthy Adams]

mopar_earl, on 08 Jun 2016 - 1:12 PM, said:

He is also pondering keeping the Flathead. That's why I said about the dirt cheap to free semi-auto or fluid drive. Options are very limited for a full auto on a Mopar flathead and expensive.

I myself would drop a complete modern fuel injected drivetrain in the car, if I was in need of an auto trans.

Earl

BINGO...why the correct century comment......lol

[knuckleharley]

Guys,some of you seem to have  missed his statement that it started out as a 4dr,and was converted into a 2dr convertible before he bought it cheap,and that he was just trying to get it driveable again to have something to drive and enjoy while he was doing serious work to his other old Mopar.

 

He even said he wanted to do it as quickly and cheaply as possible,and that's why he was asking about using stuff he already had in his garage. He needs to be spending most of his money on his total rebuild Mopar.

 

Sounds to me like this car is just going to be a beater he uses and enjoys until he gets his REAL Mopar on the road.

 

I'm with him on this one. Better to have a semi-finished beater on the road you can drive and enjoy now while you are building your dream car the way you dream of it than it is to not have anything to enjoy in the meantime.

[Plymouthy Adams]

do like everyone else seems to think works fast and easy..sit it on an S10 chassis.....can't get any cheaper than that..cost and material...

[wayfarer]

......  seems to think works fast and easy     :eek: :eek:  Fast. Cheap. Easy.   Pick two

 

This is the kind of listing that we see listed on craigslist as "un-finished project, need to sell quick", and although the OP indicates that it may well be a p.o.s. it will still suck up resources of one kind or another that could be used on the 'other' project.

Maybe being a grey beard (white actually...) provides me with a different view from other folks. Maybe other folks have too much disposable income...

[Plymouthy Adams]

......  seems to think works fast and easy     :eek: :eek:  Fast. Cheap. Easy.   Pick two

 

This is the kind of listing that we see listed on craigslist as "un-finished project, need to sell quick", and although the OP indicates that it may well be a p.o.s. it will still suck up resources of one kind or another that could be used on the 'other' project.

Maybe being a grey beard (white actually...) provides me with a different view from other folks. Maybe other folks have too much disposable income...

it was a joke..as is the S10....

[countrytravler]

On 6/7/2016 at 8:57 PM, greg g said:

There is a front mount part of Cryslers floating power system. The e brake is on the transmission so a rear end swap will be in order also if e brakes are part of your plan. If you go with a gm trans you will need to fabricate a rear cross member. Later flat head 6 engines with auto were no worse than Chevy six with power glides or ford six with ford o magic.

 

You can install a brake line lock, way better than an E brake. Make sure no leaks in brake system.

[dpollo]

as dedicated as I am to MoPar,  a 57 Chev 283  is a nice fit into your Dodge's chassis ,   

The front mounts will sit nicely onto the Dodge's crossmember, the  oil pan sump clears the steering.   Fuel  pump may be tight.

Radiator  will work  with tapered hoses which will match up with the pump and top outlet.  It may have to go on the front of the crossmember. 

and the starter is on the rhs.  out of the way.   If you can get a 265 LHS exhaust manifold, it will clear the steering box better than the ram's

horn style.  You may find the spark plug at the back is close to the steering column.  A rear mount will need to be fabricated for the transmission.

A 57 rear end is the right width and the axles can be redrilled so Dodge wheels will fit.  The brakes will be compatible with your Dodge fronts.  

Low buck and reliable.

[DJ194950]

All the manufacturers of the brake Line Locks state- Do Not count on their locks to hold vehicle unattended without wheel chocks! =no  LIABILITY.

The rental company years ago eliminated the drive line band brake (like we use) to just the brake fluid line lock---

Well I went by a job site were one of the companies rental forklifts that was in use was left overnight (on a hill) raised up with a load of metal roofing sheets! Well surprise surprise the forklift went down the hill sometime over the night and scattered the roof sheets all over the hill!! Actually was surprised  the forklift was still upright-Not tipped over.

Told him to read the Plate that was under the line lock lever which stated -Do Not leave unattended!

Told him sorry but he was lucky as my company would have to bill his company for any damage to the forklift IF it had tipped over.

There are disc brake E-brake setups available for popular brands rear ends (early Mopars not one of those-make your own?) that mount to the third member housing - not cheap- if changing a rear end any way----??

Do Not use a brake line lock for e-brake if you value your old car.

It might work as a hidden theft determent, so if the thief hits the brake once-it will lock the brakes (even if they did bleed off) -for a while at least!?

Just my opinion-of course! 

DJ

Edited March 12, 2017 by DJ194950
add-theft deterrment portion

[wayfarerstranger]

It is a DODGE doesn`t it already have a FLUID DRIVE ?

[wayfarer]

...after 9 months, I'm guessing that the OP has moved on to other projects....

[countrytravler]

On 3/11/2017 at 5:00 PM, DJ194950 said:

All the manufacturers of the brake Line Locks state- Do Not count on their locks to hold vehicle unattended without wheel chocks! =no  LIABILITY.

The rental company years ago eliminated the drive line band brake (like we use) to just the brake fluid line lock---

Well I went by a job site were one of the companies rental forklifts that was in use was left overnight (on a hill) raised up with a load of metal roofing sheets! Well surprise surprise the forklift went down the hill sometime over the night and scattered the roof sheets all over the hill!! Actually was surprised  the forklift was still upright-Not tipped over.

Told him to read the Plate that was under the line lock lever which stated -Do Not leave unattended!

Told him sorry but he was lucky as my company would have to bill his company for any damage to the forklift IF it had tipped over.

There are disc brake E-brake setups available for popular brands rear ends (early Mopars not one of those-make your own?) that mount to the third member housing - not cheap- if changing a rear end any way----??

Do Not use a brake line lock for e-brake if you value your old car.

It might work as a hidden theft determent, so if the thief hits the brake once-it will lock the brakes (even if they did bleed off) -for a while at least!?

Just my opinion-of course! 

DJ

 

Been using a line lock for years and currently use them on our fleet of tow trucks with no issues. E-brake had a higher fail rate than our locks. Just saying with 30 plus years using the locks. For a long period park, use blocks and another thing, I bet 75% of you do not have GPS in these cars if stolen.

[countrytravler]

On 3/12/2017 at 9:40 AM, wayfarer said:

...after 9 months, I'm guessing that the OP has moved on to other projects....

I imagine they but no telling and other OPs can read for knowledge.