TodFitch Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Having a single master cylinder and drum brakes, in my case tiny drum brakes, can lead us to worry about the brakes failing. . . Took a drive to the mountains near Santa Cruz yesterday and had two incidents. On the first I had to detour onto the freeway section of highway 17 because highway 9 was closed south of Felton. While on the freeway a car apparently never saw me and tried merging into my front right fender. Brakes worked well, even locking the wheels until I modulated the pressure so stopping was limited by the tire to road interface. Once at my destination I set the hand brake. But it did not seem to be holding as well as usual so I also left the car in gear (the parking area had a bit of a slope). Coming back to the car later, I pushed the clutch in and the car started moving forward. Pull back on the hand brake lever and it went all the way to the end of its travel with no effort. The dirt simple parking brake had failed and glancing under the car showed nothing amiss, no dangling actuating rods, etc. On the way home there was some occasional noise from the transmission area that was worrisome too. Well, the band on the parking brake has broken. It is 2" wide and the drum is 6" in diameter which I think is standard for many years even though the parts book changed numbers every couple of years and only '33 and '34 share the number for my car. Looks like Roberts has what I need so I'll give them a call on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 good you got here home with just a close encounter of the paint transfer kind.....while as stated when these older systems are in good repair they are quite reliable...but when out and away from you own home and garage...finding parts and a place to fix along the way can be challenging...I can only guess you were dressed in your Sunday clothes...seems this is when thing go amiss the most... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Glad to hear no one got hurt including the car. Good thing you don't have fluid drive or you wouldn't be able To park the car without it rolling when you hand brake failed. That's why I'm putting front disc and a dual circuit master cylinder on my car. I just can't get myself to trust single circuit brakes. I want my hand brake to be a parking brake, not an emergency brake. Especially with my family in the car. Not to mention harming other people. But I do plan to drive my car, probably weekly. So I will need hard core reliable brakes. Earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 No commercial vehicle brake shope in the area? They should be able to take care of that with no difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 No commercial vehicle brake shope in the area? They should be able to take care of that with no difficulty. The metal band itself broke. Looks like a fatigue fracture along one of the lines of spot weld points where the clamping bracket piece was attached. Welding to would be out: If that part of the band was ready to fail, probably some other area is not far behind. And unless it is properly heat treated after welding there could be some stress concentrations near the weld that might be failure prone. I suppose that I could get 2" wide piece of new metal of matching thickness, remove the brackets from the old band pieces and spot weld them to the new band and then get the remanufactured band lined. I doubt that the local brake shops that do relining would do the fabrication work. As long as I can get a replacement part for a reasonable price I don't see the need to make more work and expense for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Shoot, I have 3 different ones but apparently there are even more variations. None of mine look right. Edited July 19, 2015 by Reg Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Shoot, I have 3 different ones but apparently there are even more variations. None of mine look right. How do they vary? Bernbaum lists 5 different ones with use based on years and without individual pictures. The breaks in years on the Bernbaum listing matches the breaks in years in the Plymouth parts book I have which gives one hope that they know how they varied over the years. But none of the years match mine. Roberts lists one with the label "Most cars & trucks (except PowerWagon)" and the photo looks similar to mine but has an extra hole. Maybe Robert's carries a generic band that is setup to go on multiple years? You have an advantage in that you have a '33 PD to look at (assuming that neither your nor my bands have been swapped out over the years). Can you describe the differences you see? Edit: Looking at those two web sites, it seems Bernbaum has a much lower core charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Well, Bernbaum doesn't have the band for my car. Neither does Roberts nor Mitchell. In discussion with Roberts and Bernbaum (both informative) it seems the differences in the different hand brake bands is the location and shape of the brackets. Without having the old one to match up there is little chance they can come up with one. Roberts basically said that they send the bands they receive out to a contractor to be relined and that the contractor might have one that matched but I'd have to send the old for them to see. Called the local brake and friction place and they only do relining and can't repair or replicate the broken metal. I've made an appointment for tomorrow at a local metal fabrication place to see if they can make up a new band using the brackets from my failed piece. Anyway, the plan at the moment is to remanufacture the band using the old brackets and then have the local brake and friction place put a lining on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonstop Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 If the fab place can't make something up, there is guy up in Fremont that has been in business forever. He had a couple junkyards in the 60s and 70s and closed them down. Deals with nothing newer than 1970. He now just runs a shop and has a few warehouses packed with stuff. He would likely have it. I can dig up his info if interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 If the fab place can't make something up, there is guy up in Fremont that has been in business forever. He had a couple junkyards in the 60s and 70s and closed them down. Deals with nothing newer than 1970. He now just runs a shop and has a few warehouses packed with stuff. He would likely have it. I can dig up his info if interested. Definitely interested! Fremont is close enough to be considered local. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furylee2 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 You could call Dennis Cutshall. He advertises in the back of the Plymouth Bulletin to re-line these e-brake bands. He might have a core for sale. His number is 712-545-3014. I know he has several 30's cars, including a 34 Plymouth in the restoration process. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonTiki Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I've got a 1950 Wayfarer with Fluid Drive, so I don't trust the original hand brake. What is the best way to upgrade the brakes on here so I have a proper parking brake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 change the rear diff to a modern one with emergency brake incorporated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I've got a 1950 Wayfarer with Fluid Drive, so I don't trust the original hand brake. What is the best way to upgrade the brakes on here so I have a proper parking brake? Replace the differential to eliminate the driveshaft e-brake and use the read drum brakes instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonstop Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Definitely interested! Fremont is close enough to be considered local. It's Don's Antique Auto Parts, 37317 Niles Blvd, Fremont. Don is a good guy and will take the time to help you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonTiki Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 change the rear diff to a modern one with emergency brake incorporated. Thanks, any recommendations on a modern diff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Do a search on this forum, lots of good choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Spyder Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 I have hear several stories on this forum about these failures with "fluid drive". Even though my band has been redone I still use a wheel chock anytime I have the car on a grade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 The thing with Fluid Drive is that the fluid coupling does not provide engine braking when parked. This is true whether the transmission is a 3-speed, as with some Dodges, or the 4-speed semi-automatic. So the parking brake is required instead of leaving the car in gear. Further, Chrysler put the parking brake on the tail of the transmission instead at the rear wheels, so that if a rear wheel is jacked up, the car may roll. But they included wheel chocks with the jack kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's Don's Antique Auto Parts, 37317 Niles Blvd, Fremont. Don is a good guy and will take the time to help you! Thats been shutting down and many (most? all?) of his warehouses of stuff have been purchased by Steve of Globe Classic Car Parts in Fresno. Which reminds me that I haven't checked there. But last I knew, Steve was not really sure what he had and it was best to go out to Fresno and paw through things yourself. Might have to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar_earl Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Another option would be a line lock. Not a powered one, but a manual that would locked the brakes hydraulically. Seen many of older rollbacks have these on the dash or through the floor board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlindblom Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 For curiosity sake is the factory wheel chock made of wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldSmith Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Wood wheel chock, I think. I saw photos on line somewhere. Black wood. I made a few for my Big Brown Car. I even made instructions on how to use the hydraulic jack which I have stashed behind the spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlindblom Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thanks don. I have one original black painted wood wheel chock. Albeit has several nails inserted for repair. I just thought the po made something for chocking instead of leaving the car in gear or properly adjusting the emergency brake band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonstop Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thats been shutting down and many (most? all?) of his warehouses of stuff have been purchased by Steve of Globe Classic Car Parts in Fresno. Which reminds me that I haven't checked there. But last I knew, Steve was not really sure what he had and it was best to go out to Fresno and paw through things yourself. Might have to do that. What? Another place disappearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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