Diagnose This

[Don Coatney]

What was the source of all the teflon tape? There are only about 3-4 fittings between the tank and the fuel pump and most are flare fittings that do not require any thread sealant? Are you sure there is not some other contamination in your gas tank?

[Dodgeb4ya]

That E9G1 carb is for a 1953 up 3-4 ton BIG six dodge trucks- which use two of these carbs. The idle/step up and main metering jets are different than the E7T1.  The E7T1 for DT 1 ton through 2 ton uses a standard main jet that flows 315 CC's- part # 224-13S.

The Main jet for the E9G1 flows 334 CC's-pt # 224-10S.

Better check this all out!

Bob

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya

[HanksB3B]

That EG91 carb is for a 1953 up 3-4 ton BIG six dodge trucks- which use two of these carbs. The idle/step up and main metering jets are different than the E7T1.  The E7T1 for DT 1 ton through 2 ton uses a standard main jet that flows 315 CC's- part # 224-13S.

The Main jet for the EG91 flows 334 CC's-pt # 224-10S. Better check this all out! 

 

 

Thanks Bob ! No, I should have checked this all out before hand. I plead stupidity. While I'm being stupid is it possible that it's the same exact casting and by using the step-up jet and main metering jet from the original E7T1 that the E9G1 would in essence become a E7T1.

 

A couple of years ago, I think I made a mistake in sending a carburetor rebuilder my original carburetor.  Until the teflon clog-up happened the carburetor (I assumed was mine rebuilt) when I take a closer look now, it makes me feel that my original was not rebuilt and they took mine as a core and sent me what they had rebuilt on the shelf.  The reason I think this is that my old truck was never without it's hood and if you look at the corrosion of the throttle butterfly in Post #50, it's obvious that had to have sat in open air for some time. 

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Don,

Q: What was the source of all the teflon tape?

A: The 3-4 fittings between the tank and the fuel pump.

 

Q: Are you sure there is not some other contamination in your gas tank?

A: There was a white coating that was used when I had the tank flushed and coated

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

I should also ask: What is the correct carburetor for my 1951 B3B ?  Does anyone have any nomenclature that breaks down the differences of the Carter Bal & Ball carburetors and if so could you please attach this for me and send to hankstruck@verizon.net

 

Tomorrow I hope to rebuild my original carburetor in an effort to get back to square one. 

 

We'll see, (feel like I'm getting closer)

 

hank 

Edited October 18, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Dodgeb4ya]

Some of the drilled passage ways in the carb main body are possibly different . I'll try to check this out for you tonight.

Bob

[Don Coatney]

Q: Are you sure there is not some other contamination in your gas tank?

A: There was a white coating that was used when I had the tank flushed and coated

 

I would suspect the white coating more so than teflon tape. It would take a huge gob of teflon tape to make the fuel pump fishbowl look like a snow storm let alone what you found in the carburetor.

[HanksB3B]

Q: Are you sure there is not some other contamination in your gas tank?

A: There was a white coating that was used when I had the tank flushed and coated

 

I would suspect the white coating more so than teflon tape. It would take a huge gob of teflon tape to make the fuel pump fishbowl look like a snow storm let alone what you found in the carburetor.

 

I guess the Gandolf of Pilothouse Trucks has my ass in his sight.  I do need to drop my tank and get my Fuel Gauge (Merle) working.  So it seems the Santa Ana Winds of "Get it Right the First Time" are blowing gently my way this time around.

 

or: Gee Don, Thanks for making me realize that my Truck in Southern California is the first truck in North America to be In for the Winter ! But as the Horkey Winds of Windom blow, I'm sure I'll have company in less than 1 month.    

Edited October 18, 2013 by HanksB3B

[HanksB3B]

Some of the drilled passage ways in the carb main body are possibly different . I'll try to check this out for you tonight.

Bob

 

That's real nice of you,

 

hank 

[Jeff Balazs]

Hi Hank;

According to my workshop manual your truck should have a DTE-1 Carter on it.

 

Jeff

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yep^^^^^^^

[52b3b Joe]

Hi Hank;

According to my workshop manual your truck should have a DTE-1 Carter on it.

 

Jeff

 

Agreed! To add to this, to get my truck running when I put the engine in the frame, I put a spare 41 Desoto carb I had on my 230. The engine was unresponsive and very sluggish. It would miss at idle too and puke if you opened it up quick. I finally got around to rebuilding my DTE-1, and now the engine runs great! So I personally know that it does make a difference. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

The main metering jet in the stock carb DTE-1 is 256 CC's. Way smaller than what you had with the E9G1! The throttle bore is 1-9/16" for the stock correct DTE-1 compared to what you had with the E9G1 or E7T1 of 1-11/16".

Better get the stock carb back on that rig!

I'd also wonder if the white stuff getting in the carb is from the tank coating? I have never liked coated tanks.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya

[48Dodger]

Your use of the forum is textbook Hank.

 

Having met you, knowing what a great guy you are......I know your problem will be sloved and well documented.

 

48D

[Dave72dt]

The CO-1 

 

Before I fight about pulling the bearings please tell me what is involved.  You are talking about the connecting rod bearings right ? How many do I have to remove, what am I to look for ? etc. ?

 

You've got all the rods and all the mains.  It only takes one bad one.  Torque wrench. one cap at a time, has to go back on  the same way it came off.  Rod cap off, I'd push the rods up a bit so I could inspect the top half of the brg, then pull it back down, install the cap and retorque.  Mains, only the bottom half, all of them if possible. 

 

Smooth all over. may be a bit of disscolorization in the centers, that's normal.  Any bronze showing or one that looks different than the others.

[HanksB3B]

Your use of the forum is textbook Hank. 

 

48D

What driving everyone including myself nuts? I think post #50 has to be the longest single post I've seen.

 

I now agree with the get back to square one theory and suspect the carburetor as the perpetrator.

 

I'm not sorry about anything I've done (remove the oil pan, it has to be fixed) (removing the inner fender panel and getting a look at my valves in relation to the 160-180 deg sludge debate. I contend we use much better oil than we did back in the day.

 

I'm not pulling the head now, and based on findings am not going to be checking any bearings now (the oil was clean and not gas diluted). Both these ideas are good ones and may yet have to be completed but for what it's worth, for now I'm grabbing onto the "Back to Square One theory". and running with it.

 

I'm going to put my oil pan back on and do the gasket right this time, put a new sock in the filter, (don't you wish I'd put a sock in it) fill it with decent oil (not synthetic for now) and ask my darling wife Blanca to step on the foot starter and carefully observe the tappets. I will cold set the valves to the correct tolerance (because I'm not as brave as Merle, although I did buy that great set of tappet wrenches on sale a couple of years ago and am dying to use them).  It's time to check the valves after maybe 1,000-1,500 miles after the recent engine rebuild.

 

The other things I'll be looking at are:

 

Spark and especially plug #3 (the wet one) (I have lacquer coated cloth plug wires and am now considering the possibility of replacing them with a more modern non suppression wire. (any suggestions). I'll also revisit everything I recently did and the rest that goes along with a full tune-up.

 

There is and has not been any white flakey stuff in the fuel pump bowl, but the truck is in need of an operating fuel gauge. I too don't think coating a tank is the way to go just steam clean and be done with it.

 

I'm now thinking problem #1 wrong carburetor, combined with no spark on cylinder #3, possible distributor/timing issues, the combination of which led to the three passenger ride down to the beach bad and the ride up from the beach worse.

 

Does anyone have a good DTE-1 carburetor they want to sell ? 

 

For now, I will be rebuilding the E7T1 and getting it back on my rig.

 

To be continued, 

 

Hank 

Edited October 18, 2013 by HanksB3B

[48Dodger]

Checking bearings is no more difficult a job then most. I agree, It can look intimidating. Put it on your bucket list for the next year and give it a try. What I would be looking for is the rod side bearing. It recieves the most abuse, and when things aren't running right, even more so. The fuel combusts and pushes the piston down which forces the rod down on the crank. The the oil is squeezed from the pressure, which causes the shearing of the oil (breakdown). If you inspect a set of high mileage bearings from one rod....the rod side (vs. the cap side) will have more wear. If your engine has been party to rough/irratic behavior...the bearings will suffer even more. Not to imply failure.....maybe a shorter life span or less than optimum performance, which might lead to failure. There are a lot of "how to read your bearings " charts out there to help too.

 

 

                                 Two nuts off....hold the cap.....push the rod up....take a looky see....put it back togther....two nuts on ...repeat....lol.

 

 

Please do not quote me out of context.....

 

48D

Edited October 18, 2013 by 48dodger

[ggdad1951]

I got my spark wires from VPW.

[Merle Coggins]

I got my plug wires at Farm & Fleet. A generic 6 cylinder tractor set that you cut to fit. Rather inexpensive and work just fine. I'm sure Tractor Supply, or other such stores would have a similar product.

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/620808-tisco-6-cylinder-spark-plug-wire-set.html

[Plymouthy Adams]

The wires I got from TSC are great..and they have worked very well but as a side note these seem to harden quite quick...they lose their flexibility and as such rough handling could lead to early failure of the insulation..for the money and a good running engine..they are great...for the person who is constantly tinkering they may be a short life item.

[Jeff Balazs]

Hank;

I feel certain that you will be able to source a decent DTE-1 to use on your truck. I have been looking for a spare DTG1 for my truck and have seen several DTE1's on ebay. Having the correct carb is critical and it doesn't look like either of the two you have now are close to being right for your truck.

 

As you put things back together you might want to pull the distributor. Make sure the advance mechanism is working and check the point gap. While you are at it take a close look at the distributor cap and rotor. Any of these could cause a loss of power.

 

Jeff

[wallytoo]

Today's Progress:

I think I got Luckier: (until I read Wallyhoo’s post)

3. Just some fine filings like you'd expect from a sub 1,000 mike rebuild. (Wallyhoo, I sure hope you’re wrong)

hank,

i wasn't "voting" for a diagnosis of bearing failure, just what to be looking for IF a bearing failed. typically, you'd get a high-pitched whine/squeal with a failed rod bearing.

checking them isn't hard, though. as others have noted, with the pan off, pull the caps one at a time and look at the crank surface. run your fingernail along it to see if it catches (it shouldn't), to find any grooves/gouges.

checking them might eliminate that as a source of your problem, even if it isn't a likely source.

wally

[Bobacuda]

Sorry if I missed this in any of the replies, but have you checked to see if the timing chain jumped a gear or two?  It would be a quick check.  You could set your #1 cyl on TDC and see if the rotor is pointing at the #1 position in the distributer.  If you checked the timing before you took it apart, that would also give you a good indication.  What about the vacuum advance and the springs in the distributer?

 

Like I said, sorry if I am being redundant, but I have seen engines that "jumped a notch or two" and they responded a lot like your truck.

[NiftyFifty]

I'm a little worried that you haven't found the source of you knock noise, I mean it could be timing severely out, but then it wouldn't idle normally. Honestly, if the carb on the truck worked well before this new issue, then although it might need to be cleaned out again it shouldn't have caused all your issues.

Best of luck and I hope you get to the bottom if it soon!

[HanksB3B]

More tomorrow (I'll edit this post #73) Spent about an hour bead blasting my E7T1 and the throttle body Kevin sent me.  I spoke to Jens at VPW in search for a DTE1 carburetor and explained that I have two wrong carburetors. To my surprise he said they have a test engine strictly set up for carb testing and that most of the carbs perform pretty much the same on the old flatheads. I really need specs and will have to look thru the carb section or if anyone has something that shows Carter Ball & Ball parts dimensions and such.  (Just a heads up the surplus magnetic drain plugs (the $5 ones) are all gone and it seems the new source wants $39 ea, I'll pass) thinking back to science class wasn't there a way to make a magnet (electronically) of of any piece of steel (I know the rubbing way but that never makes a strong magnet (Scientists Wanted) 

 

I spent the early afternoon picking up  some miscellaneous things like gasket cement and some "Quick Steel" that hopefully will solve my oil pan dipstick leak. I then I'll use the word "carved" the old cork gasket off the oil pan and read an old post from Don Coatney on how to affix the oil pan gasket in a way that will allow more than one install & removal.

 

I'm "Going back to Square one" I'll be replacing the oil pan and filter without touching the bearings (I won't be sorry if I have to take the pan off again later but everything is pointing to something very simple and I missed it:  The wet #3 plug has me convinced that the only thing wrong is that in fact somehow Jeff's Gremlins have crossed the county line to foul me up. Keeping my fingers crossed that after viewing the valves in operation, the tolerances, build and install a new set of ignition wires, fire her up (even with the carb that's on there) set the timing my truck (hopefully) is going to run fine. Then I'll be back to square one, then I'll install the newly rebuilt E7T1.

 

In general, I think my diagnostic skills could definatly use some improvement.  My carburetor skills are real good almost like taking apart and putting back together a firearm.  My trucks knocking was not very pronounced and did not last longer than a few seconds and only occured on the steepest grade on the way home. I'm attributing this to having to give the truck more pedal than usual. I do think the carb is running too rich (wrong carb) and has a bad wire on #3. I'll be putting new plugs in and double checking timing, point gap and vacuume advance.

 

I'm not out of the woods yet and do appreciate all the help, support and expert advice shared here by you guys.

 

Thank you,

 

hank 

Edited October 19, 2013 by HanksB3B

[ggdad1951]

magnetic drain plugs would be easy to make, take the drain plug, bore a hole in it and epoxy in a magnet.

[HanksB3B]

Mark good idea. 

 

Hank