Diagnose This

[pflaming]

Unfortunately I cannot be of any assistance to you but this all reminds me of the last lines of a Robert Burns' poem. ". . . the best laid plans of mice and men, oft go astray". The little poem tells how the mice carefully and methodically dig their tunnels , make their dens, and stock up seeds for the winter. Then the farmer's plow turns this micro community upside down. 

 

I wish you the best in your search for the problem which will lead you to the solution.

[NiftyFifty]

It's a little funny, but then again its not! LOL I know this pain oh too well, I just finished a fiasco with my 95 F150 farm truck where I spent 2 days and ripped out the whole rear light wire harness just to find out the license plate wire was grounding out even with the bulb gone... Found it with my hand when I grabbed it and got burned.... Learning hurts!

FYI on using grease on cork..... That eats them IMO, rtv silicon is just fine on both sides and a quick scrape with a razor blade takes it right off.... Contact cement and other product have to be almost wire wheeled off

[55 Fargo]

News Flash....Unbelievable...How did I miss THAT !

 

 

I'm in disbelief, just skip over the heart and go for the head.  Diagnostics 101 FAIL ! (hahaha) but I'm extactic it's nothing serious and Tim, (forgive me if I misquote you) you were right on two counts.  One;  "This thread is textbook" (boy is it ever) and two; "Get back to Square one" (a valuable lesson learned by me).

 

Good news:  I didn't go too far and I'm attending to things I wanted to get done.

 

Priceless: I got like 90 responses from guys just like you just trying to help a fella or "mate" out.

 

Thanks,

 

hank   (I'm feeling the wub) 

 

To be continued on a more "Textbook" manner....

Beautiful, glad you decided to check out under the cap.

I think Fernando mentioned the Condensor.............

[Jeff Balazs]

Oh well....now you know......and I'd bet it never happens again.   

I am sure you know but you might want to pull the distributor to make it easier to clean this up. Just make a note of where the rotor is pointing and you should be good to go.

Jeff

[RodFru2u]

Hank,

Looks like you might have found the main problem. Looking forward to seeing your truck back on the road. I replaced my points a few months ago, Now YOU have me checking the wires in case mine moved and are just waiting to short out like yours.

[HanksB3B]

One reason to Not powder coat your oil pan is that you can no longer weld it, so here goes nothing.

 

Going to use the smallest amount of JB weld from the inside where the dipstick mount has a tiny leak that prevents me from running with a full panof oil (about a half quart leaks out) 

 

Hank    

[HanksB3B]

The Dodge Truck Manual says not to trim gaskets 1,2,3 and 4.  I'm intending to follow the book and use a thin coat of "Gasket Cinch" (contact cement) on both left and right gaskets however; I am considering using no adhesive of any kind on the front and rear curved cork pieces, reason being that the extending ends are going to want to move as the oil pan is tightened. Am I correct in thinking that the correct installation of the cork gaskets are what stops the pan from leaking oil and that no amount of goop (really don't like using silicone) is going to prevent (based on my last install) oil leaks.

 

What has experience showed you ? 

 

Thanks,

 

Hank 

 

P.S. I did a search for oil pan and only came up with one thread in the Technical Archives section.  Since this Thread "Diagnose This" has over 100 posts is it better to just stick with it as I resolve the problems I mention for repair or for example should I start a new thread titled "OIl Pan Installation"  when I can't find an existing thread on the forum ?

Edited October 23, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Dave72dt]

I like a little dab of Permatex No 2 in the corners, and I use 3 or 4 guide pins on each side to help keep the gasket in place and the pan centered while installing and for getting bolts started.

[NiftyFifty]

I hate cork gasket, I use the silicon very liberally with them and so far not a drop from my 50 since the rebuild in 2010 except for the stupid oil filter lines that need tweaking every once in awhile and the dipstick tube

[HanksB3B]

I don't totally dislike cork gasket, but there sure are some nice gaskets being made these days with self-stick material, but I haven't seen any for our trucks. In the first couple of pics you can see what must have been a feeble attempt on my part to use silicone a material I've come to dislike a whole bunch.  I'm trying to follow the book which calls for gaskets 2 & 4 to protrude 1/8" to 1/4" (mine look more like 3/8") so I'm considering trimming a 1/4" off one side and re-centering them.  I chose Permatex Hylomar for the front & rear as one of the properties of Hylomar is that it's non hardening and acts as a good hermetric sealant. I left the corners of gaskets 1 & 3 open and I like what Dave had to say in post 108 and will most likely use Permatex #2 in the corners.  I plan to torque the oil pan flange head bolts to about 18 inch lbs as I've learned over tightening them may have been why the entire length of the side gaskets (see pic) seems to have become saturated and almost useless as a seal.  I'm also thinking about using the Hylomar where the gasket meets the engine.  It may be a b*tch to get off later but I'm hoping later is a few years.

Initial water test shows the pan no longer leak around the dipstick.

 

Oil Pan Install: 

 

(1) I used GasgaCinch (top left) to secure the cork to the oil pan.  I very sparingly applied some grease on engine block to allow for alignment of the pan during installation, but left the top cork surface dry.  You can see I missed removal of some remaining black silicone (another reason to not like it). Maybe a potential future leak but I don't think so.   

 

(2) I coated both the front and rear half circle knife edge seals with HyLomar, but unfortunately I got too sticky to snap a photograph. The Hylomar seemed to work just great and according to the product specifications seems to be the right application.

 

(3) Even though it would seem like the perfect time, there is far too few hours on this engine to justify a single ride occurance where when I look at the distributor wonder how this engine ever got the truck home. I'm also very hopeful that it'll run just fine. So I'm not pulling any bearings just now .

 

(4) I found a mix and match of Oil Pan Flange Bolts and decided to use brand new Dorman 5/16 coarse thread bolts.  They come in a box of 25 so that's 5 spare bolts.  

I definately did not use the Makita during the instalation of the oil pan, but it sure made removal fast and easy.  I enden up using a drift pin on two holes that needed a little nudge to align the pan and block. I put all the bolts in loosely finger tight, then using a 6" extension snugged them up a bit.  I continued both in a random torque pattern till I knew the pan, the cork and the bottom of ther block was consistant. I then continued snugging them up with a 1/4" ratchet handle getting everything wrist tight. I'll follow up tomorrow with a  torque wrench (Someone told me something like 18 in lbs but common sense tells me I need the bolts just tight enough to not distort the pan and assure a good seal) T

 

 

Thanks for looking, (tightening Specs Welcome !)  

 

Hank 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2013 by HanksB3B

[48Dodger]

One reason to Not powder coat your oil pan is that you can no longer weld it, so here goes nothing.

 

 

You mean JB Weld it? Powder Coat grinds off just fine for welding......unless you mean you lose your PC because of welding...which is the case with anything painted that needs repairing. Its gonna need to be repainted.

 

48D

[Don Coatney]

I have had very good luck with cork gaskets. When installing them I use a tacky sealent on one side only and apply a liberal coating of grease on the other side. I did this with my oil pan. I have sence had to remove my oil pan twice. The greased side releases easily and I have not had to replace the gasket when removing the pan. On the end pieces of the pan I used grease on both sides.of the gasket and no sealent. Like most old Mopar flatties I have minimal leakage. I dont recall ever having to add oil between changes.

[Dave72dt]

I hate cork gasket, I use the silicon very liberally with them and so far not a drop from my 50 since the rebuild in 2010 except for the stupid oil filter lines that need tweaking every once in awhile and the dipstick tube

Cork gaskets are often overtightened and on sheet metal parts, the sealing flanges get distorted so unequal pressure  is applied to the flange.  Silicone is my last resort for a sealer and is used sparingly when used.  The excess can and has dripped off parts inside and found it's way into places it can cause damage.  I've found it blocking coolant and oil passages and inside carbs.  Excess on the outside should be trimmed off.  It's looks better cleaned off as does  excess sealant of any type.  Nothing against silicone used properly, great stuff.  I've seen it used improperly much more often than not.  JMO

[Merle Coggins]

 Nothing against silicone used properly, great stuff.  I've seen it used improperly much more often than not.  JMO

 

Yea... what he said. I'm in the same camp as Dave on the use of silicone sealants.

[HanksB3B]

Fernando,

 

I should have listened to you back in post #15 (LOL) 

 

 

The good news is the truck started on the first crank ran like a tiger and purred like a kitten (got it on video too).  All is well with the engine and guess what no oil leaks from the newly installed oil pan, valve covers and oil filter cannister. 

 

Question:  I have some plain jane oil 10W-40 weight from Kragen O'Rielly Auto Parts ($13) Ideally I want to be running Amsoil but could never justify using it because of the constant (and substantial) oil leak.  Now that I see things are tight and no oil in my drip pans I will switch to Amsoil Synthetic.

But here's the question: I'm not an "additive" type person but have used some products that did what they say they would do like Barrs Power Steering Stop Leak.  I've heard a lot about STP and that while you should not use it on a steady diet, but it is good to use once in a while with an oil change.  Just what is STP supposed to do ? 

 

Thanks,

 

They say Disney Land is The Greatest Place on Earth...I tend to disagree..

 

Thanks to everyone that helped. Here's what was accomplished.

 

1. Fixed the condenser and got the truck running.

2. Fixed the Oil Pan and Gasket leaks.

3. New Spark Plugs

4. New Wires (Not needed, but making my own set was good experience and they sure are better quality and look & fit better than any set I've ever had.

 

Still working on:

 

1. Getting the correct glass bowl fuel filter installed.

2. Getting the Fuel Guage to work.

3. Fine tuning my throttle linkage (most likely will go the re-bush route on the linkage) and throttle spring/pedal pressure.

4. Stop a transmission leak.

5. Something needs to be done to my differential. Either I have to bite the bullet and install a Dana or Cherokee rear end or take mine off and have it rebuilt with a taller ratio (first choice)... (I'm looking forward to seeing Jeffs truck) 

6. Further organize my huge inventory of truck parts

7. Get all my miscellaneous printed matter from the last 30years into a binder.

8. I'm sure I forgot something.  

 

Hank 

 

Will also switch carbs back from the 1-11/16" throttle bore to the 1-9/16" throttle bore just to see.  

Edited October 29, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Dodgeb4ya]

Now thats a dedicated dodge truck owners great picture!

Bob

[Desotodav]

Good job Hank!

Hey... those look like the same sunglasses that Mark Cavendish wears! 

[ggdad1951]

so glad it's all worked out so "easily"!

[48Dodger]

LOL.....great picture Hank...but you're to clean!

 

48D

[Jeff Balazs]

Way to go Hank;

It is great to get that oil leak fixed. I have used STP for years in OHV engines that were well worn in. SBC's mainly ........ helped a lot with oil consumption and I believe main bearing life. Not sure if there would be any benefit in a low mileage L6 that has been rebuilt. I am not sure if I would try to run a synthetic in one of these either. They were developed for modern engines that run with much closer tolerances. Seems to me a decent 10-40w or maybe 20-50w in summer would be the way to go.

 

You never said.....did you find much in the way of sludge when you got into things? Just curious.

 

Jeff

[Merle Coggins]

I've been running Amsoil in my truck for some time. I got sold on Amsoil many years ago when a fellow Gold Winger, and Amsoil Dealer, convinced me to give it a try in the bike. I now use Amsoil in everything I drive, including the Ol' Dodge. I use the 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil in the Dodge and have no issues to date. http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/sae-10w-40-synthetic-premium-protection-motor-oil/?code=AMOQT-EA

[HanksB3B]

Well thanks guys, 

 

No sludge and Davin's sorry because of my promise to eat vegimite wihile under my truck (same thing as sludge) and record it with my GoPro.  I guess it's what you get used to maybe Australians think peanut butter is really nasty stuff.

 

Funny. but I have to tell my Sludge Story: The very day I got my truck, I was on my way to the carwash to clean her up. Somewhere along the way, a girl was waiting on the bus stop and when I accelerated, she dissapeared into a cloud of black smoke. When I got to the car wash I removed clumps of grease (looked like dirty snow buildup) from the undercarriage.  I took off the tappet cover plates, reached in and pulled out handfuls of Sludge. The guy that still runs the carwash today remembers the first thing he ever said to to me "What the fuk are you DOING"!!! (nice,,,)

 

 

No Sludge this time ! My take on the 160-180 Thermostat debate is that engine oils are much better these days.   Heck I'm sure certain members recall times when you could buy recycled oil at any gas station in glass jars with an oil spout back in the day. If I lived in Vermont I'd be using a 180 deg thermostat, in Southern California seems 160 is doing fine.  I also don't believe the hype that Synthetic Oils have more of a tendency to leak. 10W-30 is 10w-30 synthetic or conventional "Viscosity is as Viscosity does"  My 85 BMW 325e with over a million miles can't be wrong (can't sell it, it's too ugly and worth nothing, can't get rid of it it's too good a runner especially up in the mountains)

 

 Hank (is happy) 

Edited October 29, 2013 by HanksB3B

[DJ194950]

Take some peanut butter and a fair amount of grits = Vegimite. Will be close enough for a picture? 

 

Doug