Can A Flat Head Be A Daily Driver, 230Cu, Route Van

[pflaming]

I think I would seriously consider relocating that fuel tank and maybe put an air bag in its place .  That's a cool truck. Keep us informed. 

[Frank Elder]

I see an irs back there.......surely that's not stock?

[Scruffy49]

I see an irs back there.......surely that's not stock?

 

Surprisingly enough, stone stock. Route Vans were THE cool truck.

[Jeff Balazs]

Richard;

Looks like you are making very good progress. Keep it up and you will really have something cool.

Can't wait to see it. Might want to make a sketch of that gas tank with dimensions for the next new guy that is missing a tank. I'd bet finding one in as decent shape as yours is rare.

 

Jeff

[rkldesign]

IRS is very stock and I am finding out that the rear end gearing is the same a the trucks.  Now I need to find out if the universal joints are as well.  I have discovered that the previous owner added leafs to the front and rear springs and so I will need to remove them and get the van back to normal ride height.  

I am also taking the head off and rebuilding the oil pump.  The water pump seems to be in good shape and just a little rusty.  Any tips on the above steps?

 

Richard

[HanksB3B]

My Truck in it's former life as a poster child for:

 

 

"Do not run with a questionable Water Pump"

 

You'll want to keep your original water pump for forensic reference purposes if nothing else. Rebuilt pumps are getting harder to find.  Unless you have experience using a bearing press and have the tools to rebuild yours you shoud get one at RockAuto, Napa, Autozone or a good Auto Parts Store.

 

hank  (really nice project you've got going there. Whats the plan for the frame?) 

Edited November 3, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Jeff Balazs]

Well if you are pulling the head I would suggest getting a new set of head bolts and manifold studs. VPW and others have them. Should make any future engine work go a lot easier. Be prepared to fight with some of these......particularly the ones that go into the water jacket. Penetrating oil and a small torch can be your best friends. I had to do a lot of thread chasing and clean up on mine......but only one helicoil repair.

 

This may also be a good time to check into the condition of the water distribution tube...... and to pull the welch plugs and flush the water jackets out.

 

Jeff

[Merle Coggins]

This may also be a good time to check into the condition of the water distribution tube...... and to pull the welch plugs and flush the water jackets out.

 

Jeff

 

I agree with Jeff. Once you pull the head you should be able to see down to the water distribution tube to see how it looks. It might be worthwhile to pull the water pump and yank out the WD tube anyway for piece of mine. This, along with popping the core plugs, will also help with flushing the block to ensure good cooling when it's all done.

 

Merle

[rkldesign]

Ok head is off, only one bolt gave me a headache.  I did use penetrating oil and a torch but to no avail.  Looks like I will be extracting a head bolt very carefully.  And chase the other threads to clean them up.  Any tips on removing a head bolt is appreciated.

The good news is that the engine looks to be in good shape, no scoring, typical carbon build up, water jacket does not look too badly corroded.

Here are the pics.  

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I'd carefully weld a thick washer to the protruding broken head bolt, then a nut to that washer. Apply your magic penetrating oil and after cooling a bit remove the broken bolt.

Bob

[Don Coatney]

Suggest you use a ridge reamer prior to removing the pistons.

[Young Ed]

The bumpers were only available for panels and Route Vans from the factory. The pickups with bumpers are running dealer or aftermarket vendor sourced units, usually just rolled c-channel.

 

Like so...

 

Any decent steel shop can roll you one. I'm thinking about slicing that one off since it is bent and running a roll pan until I have a chance to get my bumper straightened, shoertened and plated in so it has step running to the fenders. Unless I stick with throwing away the stock boring rear fenders and running 39-47 versions. Grandpa traded his Terraplane in on this truck new in 49. I'd honestly rather have the Hudson, so the 39-47 fenders give the PH a touch of that look.

 

Bumpers were optional on all pickup trucks. I've found 3 so far. Ones on my truck and 2 are on Dads. The factory rear bumper can be turned into a front bumper for 39-40 trucks. The 39-47 rear fenders will only work well on a pilot house with the low side bed.

[Scruffy49]

I've got a spare rebuilt external bypass waterpump, WITH brass/aluminum heater shutoff valve. How bad do you want it?

[Jeff Balazs]

You probably already know this but when you go to reassemble this you should use a thread sealer like Permatex on any of the bolts going into the water jacket.

Also if you do not do a full-on rebuild...IE machine true the block deck......then using a product like copper coat on the head gasket goes a long way towards preventing head gasket issues. These engines seem to need to have the headbolts retorqued a couple of times during the first few warming cycles.

 

Another item to consider is the heat riser. Now is the time to deal with it. Either get it working correctly or weld it up. Dont leave it til later.

 

Hope this helps

Jeff

[rkldesign]

Thanks for the tips on Permatex, copper coat and the heat riser.  I was wondering if I needed that thing anyway.  It seems here in Cali that I really do not need it.  It also seems to be just one other area to have an exhaust leak and excess noise.  I guess in the mid-west it was helpful on cold winter mornings.

At what point does one have the block deck milled?  This engine looked to be a good running engine when set aside and not driven.  When I turn the engine over there is no visible piston play and the valves look good, not burned or any sign of excessive heat damage to seats.  Is there something specific that I should be checking before I put it all back together?

Richard

[TodFitch]

Thanks for the tips on Permatex, copper coat and the heat riser.  I was wondering if I needed that thing anyway.  It seems here in Cali that I really do not need it.   . . .

I find the heat riser very useful here in the southern part of the SF Bay Area during winter months. The morning humidity near the bay can be fairly high and the temperatures in the high 30s to high 40s which is the time that the heat riser does the most good.

 

I would have thought Napa would have a climate similar enough to have the heat riser help on cold start drivability too. On the other hand Palo Alto, Mountain View, Sunnyvale, Cupertino, etc. are not known for their wines.

[rkldesign]

Pulled the front brake drums off this week and will be removing brake cylinders to check on condition.  If not pitted has anyone honed them and reused their cylinders?

[55 Fargo]

Pulled the front brake drums off this week and will be removing brake cylinders to check on condition.  If not pitted has anyone honed them and reused their cylinders?

Yes, but having said this, I think I got extremely lucky, and did the same for the MC.

Personally would not do that again, because I always worried about them, and did have a wheel cyl weep a bit.

Either buy new, or get what you have sleeved and be good forever. I did the above on my 47 Chrysler I used to own. My Fargo truck has new wheel cyls, MC weeped  bit, so replacing it with new or sleeved and new kit.

Buy new hoses, and new lines, get it all right, and will last a long time.

I am not sure what the average success rate is with wheel and mc rebuilding at home with new kits....

[TodFitch]

If the cylinders are not pitted then you should just be able to clean them. Honing is to clean up the pits and it removes material making the bore larger. There is only so much oversize you can have before the cups won't seal. So I would not hone them unless they needed it and if they needed it I'd strongly consider new cylinders or sleeving.

[Don Coatney]

I have successfully honed both wheel and master cylinders on many vehicles over the years to clean them up. But if light honing does not remove pits then replace or re-sleve.

[rkldesign]

Ok, will check into honing, am soaking the wheel cylinders right now before I take them apart.

 

Took oil pump off today to open it up and clean it up, any tips on priming it for engine start?  I seem to remember using a thick grease packed into the gears to get a good suction going on start up.

 

Any feedback on using a electronic ignition system in place of the points and condensor?  Petronix I think is the one I am considering.

 

Should I also replace the coil since it is from 1950?  I am sticking to 6 volt system unless others think 12 volt is better.

 

Getting head refinished and using new head bolts.

 

Thanks!

[55 Fargo]

Ok, will check into honing, am soaking the wheel cylinders right now before I take them apart.

 

Took oil pump off today to open it up and clean it up, any tips on priming it for engine start?  I seem to remember using a thick grease packed into the gears to get a good suction going on start up.

 

Any feedback on using a electronic ignition system in place of the points and condensor?  Petronix I think is the one I am considering.

 

Should I also replace the coil since it is from 1950?  I am sticking to 6 volt system unless others think 12 volt is better.

 

Getting head refinished and using new head bolts.

 

Thanks!

Sounds like a plan on those brake items.

Points are just fine, keep a spare set, and if they fail on the road, easy fix and your good to go. Not necessarily the same for the Pertronix, some love em,some hate em. I have no issues with points, would like to convert to a dual point dizzy, like Don C did.

Get a a new coil, staying with 6 volt is fine, but make sure your starter is up to the task, and some quality 2/0 batttery cables, a genny and reg in good working order, or a GM 10SI alternator with a 6 volt pos grnd regulator built into it, abut $100. Good luck

Edited November 25, 2013 by Fargos-Go-Far

[Jerry Roberts]

 

 

... Took oil pump off today to open it up and clean it up, any tips on priming it for engine start?  I seem to remember using a thick grease packed into the gears to get a good suction going on start up. ...

 

 

 Vintage Power Wagons recommends submerging the oil pump in motor oil and spinning the shaft until no bubbles show ,  prior to starting the engine . 

[Don Coatney]

I used assembly lub and STP on all rotating parts during assembly of my engine. When assembly was complete and the pan filled with oil I then spun the engine with the starter motor with all spark plugs removed until I got oil pressure. I also did a compression check while the engine was still on the bench. I built a live test stand and ran my engine for several hours prior to installing it. Forum member Bob Toft is my witness as the engine was running when the picture was taken.

 

 

 

 

[Merle Coggins]

 Vintage Power Wagons recommends submerging the oil pump in motor oil and spinning the shaft until no bubbles show ,  prior to starting the engine . 

 

Yup, that's what I would recommend if the pump is off. You don't really have to submerge it in oil, just turn the shaft and pour oil into the port that won't push it back out. Basically you just want to get it full of oil so it's not trying to pump air. If the pump was installed I'd recommend pulling off the cover and packing the gears with a light grease, like white lithium assembly grease. I wouldn't use a heavy grease. You want something that will mix and disburse into the oil easily.