1947 Wd-21 Project Thread

[hemijosh426]

I recently acquired a new to me 1947 Dodge Wd-21, in pretty decent shape. It was originally a new york state truck,  It runs and drives, but needs plenty of TLC. The brakes work, sort of. It looks like it has a few new wheel cylinders, judging by the bleeders looking newer, so my hope is that the brakes just need to be bled. 

The engine runs hot in my opinion, goes up to 212 on the gauge, but doesnt seem like its over heating. I checked the gauge accuracy against an infared thermometer, and the old guage is still pretty accurate. Is 212 too hot for this old flathead?

 

I also found some JB weld and a screw thru what looks to be like an overflow port on the top of the radiator filler neck, what was the previous owner trying to stop? Are these pressurized cooling systems or not? 

 

The trans has to be double clutched to shift right, is that normal or is it just worn out?

 

The wood bed in the pics is not that great and will be coming off. I want to put a regular bed on it, or an aluminum flatbed. 

 

Im new here, so give me all the information you can! Thanks!!

[P15-D24]

212 is basically boiling over. Way to hot. Should be 160 normally. They are non -pressurized cooling systems. 

If is is a 4 speed with the compound low it is probably a crash box, no syncros, Learn to double clutch, or better learn how to shirt without the clutch other than starting and stopping. 

 

And welcome to the site! 

[hemijosh426]

Thanks for the reply! I have already spent hours reading thru the different tech sections and Forum posts and this is a great site.

Do you have any links to troubleshooting overheat issues with the non pressurized systems? I have already checked the obvious ie: coolant is full and fan belt is turning the fan and pumping water.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's a 3spd Trans, and I figured this was a non syncro Trans but I was unsure. I actually first thought the syncros were just worn out, so its nice to know it never had any lol. Had a couple old big rigs as projects before and got real use to double clutching and rev matching.

I appreciate the help you can give!

Thanks

[Young Ed]

My 46 pickup with a 3spd is syncro in 2nd and 3rd. However like you mine is weak in 2nd and I double clutch that. Its ok into third and even back to second. I would be kind of surprised to see a 3spd in a 1ton however. That truck would be the longest they made as a pickup. I believe 9ft bed. I know for sure you can get a repro tailgate and bedfront and fiberglass fenders. The long box sides and running boards might be a challenge.

[P15-D24]

Thanks for the reply! I have already spent hours reading thru the different tech sections and Forum posts and this is a great site.

Do you have any links to troubleshooting overheat issues with the non pressurized systems? I have already checked the obvious ie: coolant is full and fan belt is turning the fan and pumping water.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's a 3spd Trans, and I figured this was a non syncro Trans but I was unsure. I actually first thought the syncros were just worn out, so its nice to know it never had any lol. Had a couple old big rigs as projects before and got real use to double clutching and rev matching.

I appreciate the help you can give!

Thanks

If it is a three speed it won't have a syncro on first, just second and third. If it is a 4 speed, up and left should be compound low.

 

On your cooling issues check the Tech TIps section. (Resources -> Tech -> Tech TIps. Their is a section on cooling system check out and another on replacing the the water distribution tube. If it is actually running that hot I would do a full cooling system overhaul. Pull the freeze plugs and water distribution tube and totally flush the block. Have the radiator cleaned and flushed. Pull the stat and replace. Pull the water pump and check for proper operation/or replace. Replace the hoses. Then you will never have to deal with the problem again. The danger with the engine running that hot is it is common for the head gasket to fail or the head gets warped. 

[hemijosh426]

Thanks for the replies. I will have to read that resources section. 

 

I measured the length of the bed on the truck now, and its 7ft. Did the 1 ton come with a 7ft bed? It has a floating rear axle, and up and left on the trans is reverse, left and down is 1st, right up is 2nd, right and down is 3rd. All the gears grind the same way without double clutching.

I am kind of starting to think the truck may not be a 1 ton, unless someone swapped a 3speed trans into it. I kind of took the previous owners word on it being a 1 ton, as the truck had the dually rims, but didnt come as a full dually, but he said that the front had been lowered in some point in its life. 

 

On the top of the radiator, where the cap goes, directly under the cap someone put JB weld and a screw thru what looks like an overflow? Should that be hooked to an overflow? Or should it be plugged? With the truck up to operating temp I see  bubbling coming from that area, which means the jb weld didnt work, but I was just curious as to what is suppose to be there. 

 

Thanks!

[Young Ed]

Assuming your truck is truly a wd21 it is a 1ton with a 133in wheelbase. Yes it would have a 9ft bed. However if its a wd20 instead its still a 1ton but it would have a 7.5ft bed and a 120in wheelbase.

[Merle Coggins]

It's odd that someone would attempt to plug the overflow tube on your radiator. That should be open. In fact there should be a tube that wraps over, and down, the side so that the radiator can vent and purge any excess coolant if needed.

 

It also sounds like the syncros in your trans are shot. The 3 speed was probably an option in the 1 ton trucks as it also was in the later Pilot-House trucks. The 4 speed may have been more common though, and it would have been a spur gear, i.e. crash box, transmission.

 

Merle

[Don Coatney]

My guess is that someone did not understand the workings of a vented cooling system. They kept topping the radiator off and it puked the excess out the vent. So they simply plugged the vent.

[Plymouthy Adams]

My guess is that someone did not understand the workings of a vented cooling system. They kept topping the radiator off and it puked the excess out the vent. So they simply plugged the vent.

works for me...NOT..but you be surprised at things the PO's do over the course of the years..

[Jeff Balazs]

I like it! It's a cutie for sure.

I think when any of us buy a truck like this there is a period of time when we are not exactly certain what we have? This is part of the fun.....a bit of sleuthing.....asking lots of questions .....and reading anything you can get your hands on. You will have most of your answers in fairly short order. There are a lot of very knowledgeable folk here.

Thanks for sharing it with us......very cool project!!!

 

Jeff

[P15-D24]

The 1 ton I picked up for parts was a 3 speed syncro. Think it was an option from the crash box. Per Don's post it looks like the PO didn't really understand the problem and tried some bandaids for a fix. You need to go through the cooling system. If you are getting air bubbles in the water the head gasket may have already failed.   

[ggdad1951]

My guess is that someone did not understand the workings of a vented cooling system. They kept topping the radiator off and it puked the excess out the vent. So they simply plugged the vent.

Or was trying to make it a pressurized system...

[Jeff Balazs]

The cooling systems on these engines are not exactly mysterious. But over time there is a lot that can happen to make them potentially troublesome.

It is certainly a worthwhile exercise to study up on the entire system before digging in.

I would pull the radiator and have it repaired or recored. A new water pump, hoses and thermostat are all a really good idea.

I may be alone here but I think it is a good idea to go in deeper. That is to say remove the old water distribution tube and pull the head. It is a fair amount of work and not without it's difficulties but by doing so you will be able to address some things that you can only guess at otherwise.

 

The internal water jackets on these engines are quite large and can hold a equally large amount of debris. If your distribution tube has disintegrated like mine did parts of it can find it's way into these jackets. No amount of flushing will garantee that these jackets are clean. Pull the head and there is access. I fished a ton of junk out that had evaded a couple of sessions of flushing. With the head off you can assess the condition of the cylinders and valve train as well.

The downside of this operation if there is one is that you should replace the headbolts and the manifold studs and bolts. If you are planning on keeping your truck then doing so only makes sense. Makes any future work you do on it all that much easier too.

 

Having done all this I know it is worth the effort. Others may disagree but I have complete confidence in the condition of my cooling system.

Jeff

[Alshere59]

Jeff brings up a good way ahead and definitely the safest. The only thing I would add is to pull the freeze plugs and dig out the gunk that hides there, especially the lower ones. I did not find a lot by removing the head but that was my experience,others have. So from what I read it comes down to choice. If you want it drivable now then I would ask if your truck is over heating in the traditional way. By that I mean is it dumping antifreeze on the ground when it runs for an extended amount of time. From what I read that may not be the case. If not you may just need a thermostat and as stated before, these are not pressurized systems and they have to find there own level. So the reason the overflow tube was plugged may be because they did not know what to expect. Is this way ahead ideal? Not really you may or may not be delaying the work. However It may get you enough to drive it the rest of the summer or while you tackle a few other areas or even look at going deeper. Just throwing out another option. Which in this case means my 2 cents prior to inflation.

[hemijosh426]

You guys all have good points. I am going to tear into the cooling system a little, going to start by replacing tstat, and then let it run with the hole in the radiator fill neck open, with the JB weld removed. The factory motor is honestly temporary, I'm glad it runs so I can drive it around while I locate engine swap parts. I'd like to swap a 6BT cummins into it one day, or a 360/318 for now, and an auto Trans, along with a good rear axle.

My next thing on the list is get it stopping good. What do you all recommend for disk brake conversion on the front? I have been kicking the idea of putting this body on a 91 Dakota frame, so I can get updated brakes and rear axle, fuel injection etc. I found a extended cab 91 Dakota with a 131 wheelbase for $300 running and driving. It's tempting me to go buy it. I have gone thru alot of threads on here, but am having a hard time seeing if anyone else has pulled it off.

[41/53dodges]

Not to tell you what to do, but a 1 tonner in that kind of shape is almost too nice to mod up, it seems like most things are fairly simple fixes on this truck. Why not build it up as a runner and try to find something good to modify, a larger 1.5 tonner would be much more apt to taking on a 6BT anyhow simply for it's weight rating and large stature. If you look around online, a guy took a WF32 (like mine, look through the truck gallery) and installed a 6BT and some new axles. killer project, saves some work in the long run, and much more useful in the end. I have a soft spot for the 40's dodges if you havent noticed

-Josh

Edited August 7, 2013 by 41/53dodges

[hemijosh426]

Ok its been a year, have not had any time to work on it. It has been in the garage still in bare metal. Last week I bought epoxy primer to spray it with, and I hope to accomplish that soon.

 

I also setup myself with the 3M PPS system to spary the primer and paint. Its a pretty sweet HVLP setup that makes cleanup and mixing easy.

 

I had originally bought a 92 Dakota to swap the 47 cab over to the dakota frame, but im coming to realize I just dont have the time right now to play with that mess. I am just going to work on the overheating problem and bleed the brakes and drive it as is.

 

The other owner put new wheel cylinders on it, and it doesnt stop as good as it should. What is the proper procedure for bleeding these? I was told there are 2 wheel cylinders per wheel. Bleed lower first or upper?

Edited August 23, 2014 by hemijosh426

[MBF]

It may be more than just a bleeding, especially if you have a firm pedal.  MoPar vehicles don't use a self energizing brake system.  The bottom of the shoes are each mounted on a concentric to allow you to adjust the position of the shoe within the drum to obtain maximum shoe contact area with the drum.  The bottom concentrics are called the "major" adjustment.  In the 9 and 3 o'clock position of the shoe is another adjustment that allows you to adjust how far the shoe retracts when the pedal is released.   The brake adjustment process is found in the tech ref section.  It is much easier to do if you have an ANSCO or other tool to measure the drum and set the major and minor adjustments.   I don't think anyone makes a disc conversion for the 1 tons with the 6 lug Budd rims, but properly adjusted, the brake system works well for what it was designed to do.  Nice truck you've got there.  Good luck with it.  Mike

Edited August 26, 2014 by MBFowler

[NiftyFifty]

1 ton brake parts not the easiest find, if you want to make the truck more drivable without an entire frame swap, I suggest a 1/2 ton front axle from same model and a front disc conversion, and a Cherokee rear axle, gives you a pile of 5 bolt wheel options, better braking and better highway performance. I'd also go T5 swap, but some guys are happy just changing the rear diff for engine rpm at highway speed. Very cool truck, make it what you want...only way to enjoy them

[ggdad1951]

actually one ton parts are hard and are NOT hard to find.  All depends on WHAT you are looking for.  Cylinders are easy. Relining shoes are easy. Drums are hard or next to impossible.

[hemijosh426]

Alright I finally started working on her after about a year and a half of it sitting around with the occasional start up. 

 

Pulled out of the driveway to go around the block and Voila... NO BRAKES! glad the hand brake works lol. 

 

The passenger side brakes are sticking on the truck front and rear, what is the proper adjustment procedure? I loosened that big nut down low on the backing plate and tried to turn the center stud... but it wont turn. What am I doing wrong? 

 

Where is a good place to get brake parts if I need them?

 

It was a WD21 flatbed back in the day, but I bought a 6ft 1947 bed for it, so I shortened the wheelbase to 116" . It was fairly simple, I torched off the rivets holding the spring hangers and moved them forward to the 116" mark. Actually right where the 116" wheelbase would be, the factory crossmember for the front spring hanger already had the correct holes, so I torched off those rivets and bolted the front spring hanger there. In the back I had to re-drill holes for the rear spring hanger, but it wasnt that hard. I have 8" of clearance between the axle and frame, and I wont be hauling any weight with it, so I should be ok. If it looks sketchy like the axle might touch the frame down the road, I will just notch the frame and reinforce it.  

[hemijosh426]

Large piece of angle iron is my trick to keeping the driveshaft straight when welding

Edited January 2, 2015 by hemijosh426

[Dodgeb4ya]

How did you balance the driveshaft?

Edited January 2, 2015 by Dodgeb4ya

[hemijosh426]

How did you balance the driveshaft?

 

I used my grinder to grind the weld flat lol. There were no weights on it from the factory, so im not too worried. This is also a temporary driveshaft,  planning on an axle and engine swap at some point in time, this at least leaves the truck drivable. 

 

Anyone have info on the procedure to adjust the brakes? Does this system bleed the same way the newer vehicles do?