radon331 Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 I have a1950 dodge b2b with the 218. I am in the process of restoring the truck. But I'm struggling with getting the engine to run. The engine was popping when I tried starting it so I realized the timing was off and adjusted the wires accordingly. Now it turns over with no popping but it won't start. Has a brand new head gasket with the head torqued down to spec. It seems like its not getting fuel? Fuel pump works and it seems as though carb is working .... I even tried starting fluid and then a little gas in each cylinder but still nothing ...it cranks but won't start... I'm losing my mind on this... Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated Quote
Don Coatney Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 You need compression, fuel, and spark delivered at the right time. Have you done a compression test? Did you correctly static time the engine? How did you insure you have fuel? Quote
radon331 Posted June 4, 2013 Author Report Posted June 4, 2013 I see gas squirting into the carb when we pull the choke or step on the gas peddle. Just did a compression test looks to be around only 30 lbs????? Any suggestions Quote
Merle Coggins Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 I would venture a guess that you were close with the timing at first and now you're way off. Recheck the timing and try again. Quote
JerseyHarold Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 Is the firing order correct? It should be 153624 with #1 at roughly 7 o'clock on the distributor cap. Quote
radon331 Posted June 4, 2013 Author Report Posted June 4, 2013 when we checked for the firing order I have the wires as 153624 however when I got to TDC the rotor was pointing at about 2 o'clock on the distributor cap so I moved the wires accordingly starting with #1 at about 2 o'clock and working the rest around clockwise? Do I maybe need to advance the distributor or something? Also I am going to do another compression test tonight. Yesterday I did a quick oone where I only removed one spark plug and plugged in the compression tester. I am going to do it the right way tonight and remove all of the spark plugs when I do the compression test. Any other thoughts? All advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks Quote
TodFitch Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 2 o'clock is nearly 360° of crank rotation away from 7 o'clock. Since you got a little popping with the wires in the other position it sounds like maybe the distributor has been indexed wrong. Quote
Dave72dt Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 TDC on compression stroke? Find that first and then lay out your firing order. If the rotor turns clockwise when spinning the motor over, you laid it out in the right order. If counter clockwise,it's backwards. Quote
Don Coatney Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 Are you using a screw in compression gauge? If so make sure to use a short reach screw in adaptor. If you use a long reach adaptor you will bend valves. On these engines I always use a push in compression gauge such as the one linked below. Fourteen bucks at Wally World. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Prism-Enterprises-Inc-Stem-Compression-Tester/22248403?findingMethod=rr Quote
knuckleharley Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 when we checked for the firing order I have the wires as 153624 however when I got to TDC the rotor was pointing at about 2 o'clock on the distributor cap so I moved the wires accordingly starting with #1 at about 2 o'clock and working the rest around clockwise? Do I maybe need to advance the distributor or something? Also I am going to do another compression test tonight. Yesterday I did a quick oone where I only removed one spark plug and plugged in the compression tester. I am going to do it the right way tonight and remove all of the spark plugs when I do the compression test. Any other thoughts? All advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks Sounds to me like you have the distributor installed 180 degrees off,or you used TDC on the exhaust stroke to wire up your distributor cap. The easy check on this is to pull all the wires from the dist cap again and start out with number 1 at the 7 oclock position. It's a real easy mistake to make. Don't ask me how I know this,though. Quote
Silverdome Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 One other thing to help you determine TDC on compression you could remove your valve cover and confirm both valves are closed or if you have an extra hand, put a thumb over the spark plug hole as you bring it to the top to verify compression. Then proceed as mentioned above. Stuck open valves can cause low or no compression along with broken rings, burnt valves, holes in piston or valve timing being wrong. Quote
greg g Posted June 4, 2013 Report Posted June 4, 2013 Easier way is to pull number one plug and put your thumb over the hole, as you turn the engine over you should be able to feel compression building against your thumb. When you do stop and rotate the engine by hand till its the timing marks align at tdc. Then set up your distributor/and wires. Its also easy to be one tower off on the dist cap. This wiil cause a o start with occasional popping. Quote
_shel_ny Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) No helper needed, no thumb needed. A piece of masking tape will do. Also shown in the pic. in line spark indicator to show if the spark is going to the cylinder that you want it to go to, when you want it to. Edited June 5, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48 Quote
DonaldSmith Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 Been there, done that. Maybe some of my recent experiences may bear helpful information. (or, how I got the engine to Top Dead Center) I attempted a tune-up recently. The previous owner had the distributor 180 degrees off, with no. 1 at 1:00. But since I was replacing the plug wires anyway, I rotated the distributor to put No. 1 at 7:00. Wait! i just started the plug wires with No. 1 at 8:00! No fire! So I redid the wires and got them in right. I went through hell trying to time the engine. Of course, I had removed the distributor to set the points. so the timing would be off. I cranked the engine, but even with the plugs out, it kept going about 60 degrees past Top Dead Center. I gradually adjusted the distributor to work the timing back to maybe 10 degrees advanced, and went to a car show, fearing on the way that I was pinging the hell out of the engine. (Too much noise to hear a ping.) After I got back from the show, I took another look at things. In using the timing light, I had noticed a random skip in the flashes, which concurred with a stumble in the engine. The gurus on the forum suggested distributor trouble. I think I found some slop in the distributor shaft, so the distributor is now a Classic and Exotic Cars for diagnosis, repair and adjustment. I wanted to set the engine at Top Dead Center before installing the distributor. Turning the fan wouldn't do it. I took off the fan, but found nothing to grip the crankshaft pulley. (but I was able to clean off and highlight the timing marks.) To move the crankshaft, I had to crawl under the car and remove the screen on the fluid drive bell housing, Four small rivets had to be pried off. Then the engine submitted to my ministrations with a large screwdriver to the flywheel teeth, and I finally brought the engine to Top; Dead Center. So, if the fan won't turn the engine, go for the flywheel. Now, to await a progress report on the distributor repair. Quote
TodFitch Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 To move the crankshaft, I had to crawl under the car and remove the screen on the fluid drive bell housing, Four small rivets had to be pried off. Then the engine submitted to my ministrations with a large screwdriver to the flywheel teeth, and I finally brought the engine to Top; Dead Center. So, if the fan won't turn the engine, go for the flywheel. I find popping off the crank hole cover and inserting the hand crank is easier. But I guess you can't do that on your newer cars. Helps to have all the plugs out too otherwise you are bound to overshoot your mark as the compression in the cylinder helps you past where you wanted to be. Quote
Young Ed Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 I find popping off the crank hole cover and inserting the hand crank is easier. But I guess you can't do that on your newer cars. Helps to have all the plugs out too otherwise you are bound to overshoot your mark as the compression in the cylinder helps you past where you wanted to be. I could do that too if I had the crank handle....... Quote
Don Coatney Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 I simply put the transmission in gear and rock the car back and forth to align TDC. On a fluid drive car you cannot do this. Quote
radon331 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Report Posted June 5, 2013 Ok so I checked and the rotor is moving clockwise as it should... Getting ready to check the compression and also to ensure the wires are all set correctly... Some how I'm missing how much fun I was told this would be....lol Quote
Merle Coggins Posted June 5, 2013 Report Posted June 5, 2013 A buddy of mine and I had a running joke for a while. It seemed that every time we had a distributor out no matter nor many times we checked things we'd get it put in 180 off. After fighting and cussing we'd finally pull it, turn it 180 and drop it back in... Varoom!!! We began to joke at the initial install, "Should we just pull it and turn it right away?" We never did. Quote
greg g Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 Geeeesh, when I pull mine, I always put a chalk mark to indicate the the position the vacuum canister to the block, then I mark the rotor position on the dist body, and mark one dist clip and cap to make it easy to get things back in. If you don't spin the starter when the dist is out, you can put it back in the same way. Other wise you gotta do the static timing thing. Quote
52b3b Joe Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 A buddy of mine and I had a running joke for a while. It seemed that every time we had a distributor out no matter nor many times we checked things we'd get it put in 180 off. After fighting and cussing we'd finally pull it, turn it 180 and drop it back in... Varoom!!! We began to joke at the initial install, "Should we just pull it and turn it right away?" We never did. I'm notorious for putting them in 180 off. I probably make the mistake every other time I do it. I'll never forget when I did it on one of my Corvairs when it popped back through the carb and shot a fireball at my face. That woke me up. The noise alone was bad enough... Quote
Don Coatney Posted June 6, 2013 Report Posted June 6, 2013 On my Desoto engine I cannot remove the distributor unless the engine is at TDC. The distributor tang hits the bottom of a piston. Quote
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