20W40 Dino oil do they make it anymore ?

[White Spyder]

I read some of the threads on what type of oil to use in our old flatheads and 20W40 oil, non synthetic, is the original and some say you can go to 15W40. I went to 3 different national parts stores and the closest I could find was either 10W40 or 20W50. I live in Mississippi and wonder what would be best. Additionally, I read a bit about zzdp and our older engines, what do you do ?

[oldmopar]

I usually run 5 30 in everything. Most any modern oil is better then what they used when our cars were new.

[55 Fargo]

If you engine is old and tired, go with either 10W40 for winter, and either a good grade of 15W40 or 20W50 for summer, and hotter outside temps.

If you have a nice tight rebuilt engine, go with 10W30.

If you are worried about ZDDP (zinc content), try Shell Rotella T 15W40, it is a decent oil..... pS check your local Wallyworld, they sometimes carry other viscosities, like straight, 30,40,50......

[1941Rick]

You can use synthetic Mobile One 20/50 in a fresh engine...formulated for high performance turbo engines and coincidentally has all the good stuff for our flatties. Am running it in mine with no issues what so ever.....idle pressure 35psi

On an old engine use a non-detergent 30w.....

[55 Fargo]

You can use synthetic Mobile One 20/50 in a fresh engine...formulated for high performance turbo engines and coincidentally has all the good stuff for our flatties. Am running it in mine with no issues what so ever.....idle pressure 35psi

On an old engine use a non-detergent 30w.....

I have used detergent oils in my used flatties, all the time, with absolutely no ill effects. Now Rick, I am not saying, you are wrong, but what is the science behind this. I think any old flattie, should have the pan dropped, and valve covers pulled, and all dirt and sludge pumped out.

I have never had a problem to date with the use of modern dtergent oils in my old used flatties........

[1941Rick]

Zenmaster....I guess it comes down to the internal condition of the engine...you do not want to stir up the sludge...so , if the internals are clean then you can get away with any oil. Additives are the question that must be answered....According to Esso tech line the Mobile one that I refered to has the additives that are not in modern oils that the flat heads require..they call them "alternate valve configuration"....how politically correct is that. Because these engines have a bypass filter system and run cool there is a sludge build up that can happen.

[Don Coatney]

If you do a forum search on oil and oil additives you will find that this subject has been cussed and discussed many times. I have read all of this information and my take is that modern oils available today exceed the requirements of mopar flathead engines. I use the least expensive multiviscosity oil I can find. I dont spend any money on additives as in my opinion they do nothing except add to the coffers of the manufactures and they are not required.

I hate to sound like a broken record but I have said this many times. You can go to Pets-Are-Us and buy a diamond studded collar for your favorite dog. The dog could care less as the collar is not required and does nothing. But by using this collar the dogs owners boost there personal comfort level and it makes them feel good.

The same is true with oil additives and all additives in general. If it makes you feel good then by all means spend your money. The manufactures of these additives will all tell you that they will make your engine run better and last longer. The prime reason they tell you this is so you will buy there snake oil. Where is the dicumented proof?

Edited December 27, 2011 by Don Coatney

[White Spyder]

If you do a forum search on oil and oil additives you will find that this subject has been cussed and discussed many times. I have read all of this information and my take is that modern oils available today exceed the requirements of mopar flathead engines. I use the least expensive multiviscosity oil I can find. I dont spend any money on additives as in my opinion they do nothing except add to the coffers of the manufactures and they are not required.

The same is true with oil additives and all additives in general. If it makes you feel good then by all means spend your money. The manufactures of these additives will all tell you that they will make your engine run better and last longer. The prime reason they tell you this is so you will buy there snake oil. Where is the dicumented proof?

Thanks all.

Don,

You are correct, a search does turn up some interesting reading and spurred my question as I could not find the right weight oils here and knew folks like yourself, who know more than I, would chime in. In general I would agree with you about additives but the zzdp thing seems to have some measure of truth from what I have read. To your point though, I have a Fiero that ran like crap when I used "advanced engineered" spark plugs. I bought them after watching Power Block TV where they showed actual gains with use of them on a dyno. The car runs GREAT on cheep AC Delco copper plugs.

Go figure !?

[Plymouthy Adams]

long story short..new engine..dino lubes..new engine...zinc additives to protect against initial scuff...after engine is broke in and at about 1000 miles you may change to synthetic..remember when cars where delivered fromt he factory with a break in oil..requirement was to change at 500 miles..

[48mirage]

Just to through my voice in this thing. My '49 D30 has been running wallyworld's 20W50 motor oil since I got it 6 years ago. She has 84,000 on her and I put 30,000 of them on myself. I did pull the pan and the valve covers and cleaned her up. I have about 20 psi of oil pressure at a warm idle and 45 to 50 doing hiway speeds. I live in Kansas so we have all the extremes from 0 degrees to better than a hundred and the same oil works both ends. I would not overthink this oil question and I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a synthetic. Keep your oil changed regularly and properly tuned and these rides will serve you well. When I do get around to doing a rebuild I will make sure that I have a zddp additive for the cam break-in.

[Rusty O'Toole]

Multi grade oils were available starting in 1951 and detergent oils a few years earlier. In gas stations and garages around the country, 10W30 detergent oil was the default choice for everything in the fifties, sixties and seventies. Chances are your old MoPar has never used anything else.

In recent years they have been skimping on the ZDDP or zinc additives. This is not so good for pushrod OHV engines but OK for later model overhead cam engines, and likewise for your old underhead cam (flathead) engine. The flathead has low pressure on the valve train just like an OHC engine. They never had trouble with lifter and cam wear until they introduced OHV engines.

So almost any good name brand oil will work OK in your old MoPar unless it is an OHV performance V8. 10W30, 10W40, 20W50, whatever. If it is in good shape and does not burn oil the lighter stuff is fine. If it is worn, using heavier oil will not do much good but if it makes you feel better go ahead.

Do not fall for the old sucker play of using 30 or 50 non detergent. That myth has been going around since the Stanley Steamer left town. It does not apply to any car made after VJ day.

[Jim Yergin]

I have certainly read many warnings about the problems that can occur if detergent oil is used in a car that has been using non-detergent oil but I do not recall ever reading anything from someone who actually experienced any such problems. Is there anyone on this forum who has experienced such a problem?

Jim Yergin

[Plymouthy Adams]

its a truth..have seen it serveral time..run an engine on non detergent oil..sludge build up etc etc..swap to high detergent and next thing you know that sludge is carried though your engine..IF one does this I would suggest many and frequent filter changes during the process..it goes hand in hand with the rebuild of the upper cylinder and not give a toot about the lower end..up the compression on a tired old engine..put extra pressure on the tired low end..wiped (hammered) bearing are sure to follow at a quicker pace..

[White Spyder]

Ended up with a new Purolator filter from Advance, 15W40 oil and ZZDP additive that I had for my other cars.

[Rusty O'Toole]

I have certainly read many warnings about the problems that can occur if detergent oil is used in a car that has been using non-detergent oil but I do not recall ever reading anything from someone who actually experienced any such problems. Is there anyone on this forum who has experienced such a problem?

Jim Yergin

How could they? Detergent oils have been the standard choice for 60 years. Every car on the road either used detergent oil all its life or, if it is a prewar car, has used it since its last rebuild.

The only exception would be a car that predated WW2, has never been rebuilt, and has either been in storage for 60 years or whose owner has always changed his own oil and went to the trouble of buying nothing but non detergent. Such cars may exist but must be as scarce as hen's teeth.

There could also be cars that used detergent oil for the first 50 years of their life but changed to the sludgy stuff because Gomer down at the filling station told him all old cars have to use good ol' non detergent 50 weight. Such cars have probably had the oil changed often enough that little or no damage has been done and can change back to detergent oil without problems.

[Frank Elder]

ZZDP is required for the cam break in only.....you guys are throwing your money away after that. What ever floats your boat............

Edited December 28, 2011 by FRANKIE47

[desoto1939]

I did some seraching and Dino20-40 was conventional motor oil. Your local Yamaha dealer has a product called Yamalube 20w-40 and online it cost about $30 for a gallon.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[T120]

I liked the way forum member, "grey beard",discussed motor oil and sludge in his "thoughts on mopar flatheads" parts 1,2 and 3...

[garbagestate 44]

I used to have an 86 Pontiac with a transverse mounted 4 cylinder with leaky valve guides. When state inspection time came around I would load it up with 50w,go through emission testing, pass, go home and drain it out as it would hike my oil pressure quite a bit. I figured the thicker oil would leak more slowly through the worn out guides.

[martybose]

I have certainly read many warnings about the problems that can occur if detergent oil is used in a car that has been using non-detergent oil but I do not recall ever reading anything from someone who actually experienced any such problems. Is there anyone on this forum who has experienced such a problem?

Jim Yergin

Back in the 60's my first car was an old Volvo that I immediately did an oil change on. Naturally I used detergent oil, and within a week the spin-on filter was plugged with crud, and the mechanic said that it looked like the engine had always had non-detergent oil. After 3 or 4 weekly filter changes and oil top-offs it settled down again.

Marty

[B-Watson]

Part of the problem when talking about detergent motor oils is the impression that the detergent in motor oils is just like the detergent you put in your washing machine or dishwasher. But that is far from the case. Motor oil detergent does not clean the built up crud off the inner parts of the engine much like a dishwasher detergent cleans off built up cheese particles on a casserole dish, but rather picks up small particles before they build up to large chunks stuck to the engine innards.

From a motor oil website -

"Virtually all modern multi-weight oils are detergent oils. Detergent oil cleans the soot of the internal engine parts and suspends the soot particles in the oil. The particles are too small to be trapped by the oil filter and stay in the oil until you change it. These particles are what makes the oil turn darker.

"These tiny particles do not harm your engine. When the oil becomes saturated with soot particles and is unable to suspend any more, the particles remain on the engine parts. Fortunately, with the current oil change intervals the oil is changed long before the oil is saturated.

"Non-detergent oil, such as SAE 30, is not used in modern passenger vehicle engines. It is still used in some gasoline engines such as lawnmowers."

If you are having problems with chunks falling off inside your engine, the odds are it would happen no matter what oil you use. They are probably reaching a size the chunk can no longer stay together.

[Young Ed]

How could they? Detergent oils have been the standard choice for 60 years. Every car on the road either used detergent oil all its life or' date=' if it is a prewar car, has used it since its last rebuild.

The only exception would be a car that predated WW2, has never been rebuilt, and has either been in storage for 60 years or whose owner has always changed his own oil and went to the trouble of buying nothing but non detergent. Such cars may exist but must be as scarce as hen's teeth.

[/quote']

I have just such a car. 1951 plymouth. The guy who gave it to me bought it used in 61 and drove it from however many miles to 202K. He insisted that it have nothing but straight 30 non detergent and even gave me a case of quaker state.

[Captain Neon]

I have just such a car. 1951 plymouth. The guy who gave it to me bought it used in 61 and drove it from however many miles to 202K. He insisted that it have nothing but straight 30 non detergent and even gave me a case of quaker state.

My question is: are you still using the non-detergent oil?

[Young Ed]

My question is: are you still using the non-detergent oil?

Not in the 51. Been slowly using it up in oil cans and I put 5 qts of it in the engine for the 40 plymouth just to try and start it.

[Greenbomb]

Back in the late '60's i had a '56 Chevy. It was very typical of cars then. It had been run a long time on cheap non-detergent oil and was pretty well sludged up. I changed the oil in it one day ( I'd heard you were supposed to do that now and then), and put Texaco detergent oil in it. The poor thing smoked like a freight train after that! So, i went back to non-detergent oil. After a while it stopped smoking, but went through oil pretty bad.