Modern fluids in old trucks

[TheMoose]

What do I need to look out for when putting fluids in my B4?

I've heard that old Dodges have hardened valve seats so lead additives are not needed & I put Stabil in everything I own with an engine but have some questions.

Ethanol, most places are adding ethenol to fuel to make it cheaper (Damn you Iowa caucases!) what do I need to keep an eye out for & is there any way to nuteralize the effects?

Additives, I use Lucas fuel system cleaner in some of my engines, is this a good idea in my old engine?

What about Stabil, any reason not to use it in every tank?

Oils, modern oils have all kinds of additives that weren't around when these were built (did they use whale oil? ) anything in paticular I need to avoid when oil shopping?

Grease, I'm just guessing but 90W gear oil in rear end & trans?

Antifreeze, the good old green antifreeze or the universal type? I'd guess with iron block & heads it's pretty tolerant of the different types as long as you don't mix them.

Brake fluid, can you even still get DOT3 or is everything synthetic?

I'm a fairly good mechanic, I don't mind getting my hands greasy but the cars, quads, race cars & other toys in my garage are fairly modern so I'm not up to speed on the classic stuff.

Thanks for any info.

[oldmopar]

I run the cheaper gas which still has higher octane then these truck originally ran on. 10-30 oil I do not use oil additives ,90 w GL4 in the rear and trans (not sure about fluid drive transmissions). Dot 3 brake fluid works I have my vehicles running dot 5 silicone (best done with a complete brake rebuild) and air from my compressor in the tires

[NiftyFifty]

Actually modern oils are not real good for these old flatheads as they have removed almost all the phos and zinc that newer Valvetrains don't require. A trip to o'riellys or other jobber stores should put you in line with some oil additive. You can also buy special oil for older engines at most speed/performance shops, whatever you do don't use full synthetic, not good in the old flatties!

The rest of the power train you can just but high quality recommended weights... Again full syn in stock parts not likely needed, but updated powertrain you can look at the full syn stuff. Fuel... Less ethanol the better for carbs and older engines...

Edited October 9, 2011 by 4mula-dlx

[TodFitch]

Actually modern oils are not real good for these old flatheads as they have removed almost all the phos and zinc that newer Valvetrains don't require. A trip to o'riellys or other jobber stores should put you in line with some oil additive. You can also buy special oil for older engines at most speed/performance shops, whatever you do don't use full synthetic, not good in the old flatties!

The rest of the power train you can just but high quality recommended weights... Again full syn in stock parts not likely needed, but updated powertrain you can look at the full syn stuff. Fuel... Less ethanol the better for carbs and older engines...

Modern oil has more phosphorous and zinc than the oil that was available when your truck was built. It does have less than what was added later in the 1950s and 60s to deal with wear issues in push rod OHV V8 engines. So if you've put a 50s or 60s V8 in your truck you might want to consider oil additives. But for the old L-6 engine, modern oil is better than what was available back then.

[JBNeal]

Ethanol: it'll dissolve the winding on the fuel level sending unit over time, so the fuel gauge will stop working. It'll also start to break down any NOS rubber fuel lines, which can foul up the carburetor, as well as the diaphragm in the fuel pump, which will soften and tear. Fuel stabilizers may help to minimize the corrosive effects of the ethanol in our gasoline, but fuel system inspection & maintenance will have to be more vigilant than in the past because of our friend ethanol.

Green antifreeze is adequate, the universal type won't give ya any extra cooling benefits. My opinion on the zinc-phosphate additives in motor oil debate is that I don't plan on putting so many revolutions on the flatheads I'm working on for it to make a difference. A PCV system & a 180 thermostat will do more good than any oil additive because this PCV/t-stat combination will drastically reduce sludge.

I've had DOT 5 in the completely overhauled brake system on my '48 since '99. So far, the only leaks have been from a couple of flare ends that ain't cuttin' the mustard. All new lines & fresh rubber in the system probably have made the difference. I had originally tried to use NOS rebuild kits and flushed my original lines, but the result was the cylinder hones had too much pitting for the stiff rubber to seal, and the lines would rupture at inopportune times, making for an intermittent spongy pedal...YIKES

[Young Ed]

I run the ethanol gas in both mine and only use the stabil for winter storage. If you don't put many miles on would be the only reason to use it all season.

[Don Coatney]

Here are a few links to threads where all this stuff has been discussed at length.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/search.php?searchid=1121789

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=28386&highlight=antifreeze

[ggdad1951]

I'm running DOT 5.1 in my brand new brake system, I've been told less moisture issues with that cocktail.

After my engine rebuild I have in the purple stuff with the high zinc for break in, have yet to decide what to pu in sometime next year when I need to. Otherwise just good old gear oil for the read diff and tranny.

Green coolant, but I'm having a hard time finding the right blinker fluid......

[Dave72dt]

Blinker fluid available at most hardware and auto parts stores, commonly referred to as "dielectric grease", aerosol and solid versions available.

Most modern fluids are compatible with the old mechanical pieces. DOT 3 is still around and still most popular in use. 5 is used but don't mix with 3. Antifreeze can be had that's compatible with all metals and extended or green formulas. Oils are a big debate session, much based on old mechanics beliefs and oil company sales promos so I stay away from the debates. Few of us are oil engineers. Modern gas has been found to be hard on some components but rebuilders have been stepping up with parts more compatible to the alcohol.

[ferdball]

I'm waiting to hear about the lead additive comment? Is it true that they have hardened valve seats? do I need keep buying lead?

my 48' actually has a 53 car engine in it, would the same apply to that flatty?

[TheMoose]

I'm waiting to hear about the lead additive comment? Is it true that they have hardened valve seats? do I need keep buying lead?

my 48' actually has a 53 car engine in it, would the same apply to that flatty?

Don't take my word as fact but, from what I understand Dodge put in hardened valve seats while ford & chevy did not, since most old cars & trucks out there are ford & chevy which need lead additive people think all old cars/trucks need the additive.

I'm sure someone will know for sure & hopefully post to let us know.

Also Don Coatney, that first link is bad, but because of the 2nd link I returned the bottle of prestone extended life I bought the other day & got good old fashioned green antifreeze to top off my truck when I change the water pump.

[Dave72dt]

This is the way I look at the lead additive. With the limited number of miles these engines will likely see and the number of miles it may take to wear out non-hardened seats, the additive, as are most, is a waste of money.

One oil additive advertised saving 360 gallons of fuel every 100,000 miles. Doing the math, it ends up as about a little over a quart every 100 miles. I save that much and more changing how I drive.

[carls 49]

use 87 grade (no addatives) in my 49 (originaln eng, flathead 6). no problem (knock on wood). 30 w oil, runs great.

[TodFitch]

I'm waiting to hear about the lead additive comment? Is it true that they have hardened valve seats? do I need keep buying lead?

my 48' actually has a 53 car engine in it, would the same apply to that flatty?

Yes, your Chrysler L-6 engine be it a Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto or Chrysler has hardened valve seats. Here is a cut from some 1933 Plymouth sales literature when it was introduced on Plymouth.

[Rusty O'Toole]

They started making leaded gas in the twenties but didn't put in very much until about 1954 or 55. In the regular gas, little or none. Octane around 60 to 65 for regular, 70 to 75 for hi test.

All Chrysler engines in those days had hard valves and valve seat inserts.

The fifties were the heyday of the high compression OHV V8s and leaded gas. Everybody stopped using valve seat inserts because the lead protected the valves. Octane typically 85 to 90 for regular, 95 to 100 for premium, super premium up to 110.

In 1970 unleaded gas made a comeback. All cars stared using lower compression open chamber designs for emissions, and hardened valve seats. Chrysler used "flame hardened" seats, some kind of case hardening or tempering using heat on the head castings, no inserts.

So the critical period for leaded gas was 1955 to 1969 especially for high performance cars. Cars made before 55 and after 70 are in the clear.

Multi grade oils came on the market in 1951. Chances are any car made in the late forties or since, has used nothing but 10W30 all its life. That was the default choice at all dealerships and garages in the fifties and sixties.

Flatheads are in the clear on the low zinc question. They have very light valve mechanisms and light valve springs, similar to the latest overhead cam engines. Call your flathead an underhead cam lol. It is the OHV engines that need the zinc. This came out when the first OHV engines were put on the market, Studebaker and Chrysler especially had problems with premature cam, and lifter wear. The ZDDP additive was one of the solutions. It doesn't hurt your flathead but is not totally necessary.

[John-T-53]

What would be a brand name zinc oil additive to look for? I've heard amsoil might make one but I don't normally see amsoil products out here. I'd probably add it to the L-6 just for more peace of mind, but according to the posts below my Chevy's 283 could use it more.

[NiftyFifty]

I know many old car enthusiasts that all recommend using either high zinc and phos oils or using additive, and that's including 40's and early 50's car/truck owners, as well as my mechanic who's been in business 30+ years, and the 2 performance shops I buy parts at, so I take that more to be the way to go then slopping in the $3.99/litre plain 10w30.

I also had at one time a site which showed all the different oils on the market and their levels, and actually the best oil available in my area was a Co-Op brand #30...but for peace of mind I will be running either additive or good older car oil.... Just becasue it wasn't there in the 50's doesn't mean it wasn't needed then and now. My new rebuild has been breaking in with Royal Purple break-in oil and now that I have a few miles I will go to a Quaker State 10w30 with additive for the winter sitting oil change/spring, and in the late summer I will go to a old car formula...all the things you can cheap out on oil isn't the one to choose

[55 Fargo]

I know many old car enthusiasts that all recommend using either high zinc and phos oils or using additive, and that's including 40's and early 50's car/truck owners, as well as my mechanic who's been in business 30+ years, and the 2 performance shops I buy parts at, so I take that more to be the way to go then slopping in the $3.99/litre plain 10w30.

I also had at one time a site which showed all the different oils on the market and their levels, and actually the best oil available in my area was a Co-Op brand #30...but for peace of mind I will be running either additive or good older car oil.... Just becasue it wasn't there in the 50's doesn't mean it wasn't needed then and now. My new rebuild has been breaking in with Royal Purple break-in oil and now that I have a few miles I will go to a Quaker State 10w30 with additive for the winter sitting oil change/spring, and in the late summer I will go to a old car formula...all the things you can cheap out on oil isn't the one to choose

Shell Rotella T Diesel Oil 1250 PPM of ZDDP. A lot of Hi Perf people do not realize the quality of metal in these low rpm flatties, far exceed there chinese metals on there after market parts.

The fact that Mopar L head 6 s, have full pressure lubrciation, not dipper splash systems, inset bearings instead of babitted rods and mains.

I like the fact there are hardened exhaust valve seats, so unleaded fuel is no issues.

There have been tons of discussions on Oil and Oil additives, and the fact is the oil today, far exceeds the quality of the 40s and 50s engine oils.

If your engine is rebuilt, not sure you would require some older non detergent oil, if ZDDP is what your after, that would by either adding it,. or using an oil like Shell Rotella T, or something comparable...

[1941Rick]

I have gone around with ESSO regarding oil for the old flatties....They have Mobile 1 15/50 full synthetic,that is used in high performance engines that has the proper additives for our engines.....I run mine with it with no problems at all....Just make sure your engine is a fresh rebuild, not a high miler

[Don Coatney]

I hate to sound like a broken record but one can go to Pets-Are-Us and buy a diamond studded collar for there favorite dog. The dog could care less as the collar is not required and does nothing. But by using this collar the dogs owners boost there personal comfort level and it makes them feel good.

The same is true with zinc oil additives and all oil additives in general. If it makes you feel good then by all means spend your money. The manufactures of these additives will all tell you that they will make your engine run better and longer. The prime reason they tell you this is so you will buy there stuff.

So once again if it makes you feel good then spend away but none of this stuff is required.

[MBF]

I've read of couple of articles in different publications concerning ZDDP as an additive. According to both sources, even though the amount of zinc in motor oils has been reduced from what it previously was, there is still more than enough contained in most of the oils blended today. I've also seen discussions that other than the break in oils in a newly rebuilt engine or a new cam / lifters, that there is no need to add zinc. To each their own I guess. Mike

[Adam H P15 D30]

HIGH valve spring pressures and flat tappet cams need the zinc. Our Flatheads DO NOT have high valve spring pressures, zinc is not needed.

[Merle Coggins]

Contrary to what someone said earlier, I use Amsoil synthetic oil in my truck. Actually I use Amsoil in everything I drive. I am in no way a spokesman for Amsoil, but I am a believer and have had good service with it. They offer blends with high levels of ZDDP if that's what you like. Check 'em out. http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrt.aspx

Merle

[Juday1951]

Contrary to what someone said earlier, I use Amsoil synthetic oil in my truck. Actually I use Amsoil in everything I drive. I am in no way a spokesman for Amsoil, but I am a believer and have had good service with it. They offer blends with high levels of ZDDP if that's what you like. Check 'em out. http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrt.aspx

Merle

I've been contemplating on whether I could use the Amsoil in the old truck. Now, I'm going to try it out. I'm WAAAAAY past due for an oil change on the truck...

[Merle Coggins]

One word of caution on that... if your engine is relatively high mileage, and has a lot of sludge build up, you may discover that things will start to leak after a while. Synthetic oil tends to clean things up and in some cases the sludge was plugging the holes that would otherwise let the oil out. Once it all gets cleaned out things may sprout leaks. My engine has been overhauled so I didn't have that concern. I don't want to discourage you from using Amsoil, as I think it is a wonderful product, but thought you should know a possible side effect.

Merle