export models

[Oldguy48]

I've been hanging around this forum for a while, and am both fascinated, and confused about the differences between the domestic and export model Mopars. Longer engine block in the Canadian models, Dodge badging on Plymouth bodies, etc, etc. I've searched, but cannot find a history or reason for these differences. Can anyone enlighten me, or point me toward a website that explains Chrysler's reasoning behind all these differences? I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[RobertKB]

Not sure of a website, although I imagine there is one, but I can explain a bit about the engines. In 1938 Chrysler Canada started producing their own engines. Not being a large market, it did not warrant building two different engines like in the US. Therefore all engines built in Canada were the long block variety like those found in Chryslers and Desotos in the US. The short block version was not built in Canada. It is nice for Canadians as most engines found will fit in just about any Chrysler product made from 1938 forward. Prior to 1938 this was not the case. I have a friend with two '37 Dodges and they both have the short block engine. I imagine these engines like all Mopar engines prior to 1938 were imported from the US. Maybe Bill Watson from Vancouver will chime in as he is the expert on these matters. I have a '38 Chryser, '48 Dodge D25 Club Coupe, and a '53 Plymouth. These were all built in Canada and all have the longer engine.

[greg g]

Not to mention the Plymouths labeled as Desoto Diplomats in south america and the Desoto trucks still being built in Turkey.

Go to the all par site, they have a big section of exported and offshore assembled brands and Models also the Desotos that were plymouth kit cars assembled in Austrailia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeSoto_Diplomat

http://www.allpar.com/old/diplomat.html

[BobT-47P15]

In the 1950s and (I think) into the 60s, the American manufacturers did kinda

different things with their Canadian models. A Ford here was a Meteor there with

different trim than in the US. A Mercury there was a Monarch. The Pontiac was

our Chevy, and vice versa.

I found a car for sale near here a couple years ago. It was a 1951 Plymouth

four door with a DeSoto grille and nameplates. Turns out, it was an export

model to Japan, brought back by a returning soldier. Has the short engine.

So - just for background - there were quite a few odd cars for export or

built in another country. Of couse, some exports had right hand steering

wheels if required by the country of destination.

[boxer_inv]

I've been hanging around this forum for a while, and am both fascinated, and confused about the differences between the domestic and export model Mopars. Longer engine block in the Canadian models, Dodge badging on Plymouth bodies, etc, etc. I've searched, but cannot find a history or reason for these differences. Can anyone enlighten me, or point me toward a website that explains Chrysler's reasoning behind all these differences? I would appreciate it. Thanks.

What a great question! As the owner of one of these 'export' models, I too am very interested in any info on the reasoning for the differences. I'll be following this thread with interest.

Rob.

[desoto1939]

If you also look in your parts book you will find references to export items.

During my research on my 1939 Desoto which was built inthe US I have found that the export versions had 12volt system and not the 6volt systems that were used in the USA.

I do not know the reason for this at this point in time. PAging through your parts book can yield a great deal of information.

Here is an example: onthe 39 Dodges they had the Fender Lamps list as accessories. But for the 39 Desoto the same lamps witht he same part numbers are listed as for export. So if you do some looking some items can be used on other cars to enhance their appearance. I always keep my parts book with me when I go to a judged event just in case someone questions the fender lamps.

Attached is a picture of the car with the lamps.

rich

desoto1939@aol.com

[Andydodge]

Rich, am pretty sure that the RHD exports to the UK were the only ones that would have had 12volt systems as we here in Australia had 6volt on yank cars up to the mid 50's, basically like you did, however English and I think European cars had 12 volts here in oz well before that........as an aside some of the differences I've noticed between US and Oz cars is we never had foot starters due to rhd, also mopars here had electric wipers, the obviously different body shells and use of grilles, etc to indicate the make, ie, a Dodge grille, name badges & dash trim but then using Plymouth trim,mouldings and bumpers, etc....we 50-70 yrs after the fact can make educated guesses as to why something was done , but it would be nice to have something from mother mopar spelling it all out........lol.......andyd

[Frank Elder]

There is only one constant rule that runs through Walter's legacy, lay down the rules of manufacture then bust em! 4 dr hemis, one offs for the rich or connected and not a heck of a lot of documentation on those "specials". Why should exports be any diffferent? Bill Watson please answer our questions:D! We bow to the Master of Documentation.

[Young Ed]

There was a car lot here with a factory equipped 426 wedge 64 plymouth wagon. Had to be 1of 1 or only a few. That stuff did happen. Dad saw a guy who's wife made him order a wagon so he sat down and ordered one with a giant engine and a 4spd.

[62spde55]

Hi, I'm new here, name is Dave.

Some of these export situations were purely political. Pre WWII in Australia there were no major auto manufacturers but there was a strong local body builders. To support this industry there were high tariffs on fully imported cars but much lower for those who imported chassis, engines etc while using the local body builders and assembly. The three were Ford, Holden and TJ Richards. This why we have some quite different early bodies than you in the US. For example, I have a 1933 PD Roadster with a holden body, a body style never made in the US that year I believe

Post WWII there was a great push for complete local manufacturing culminating with the "first" Australian built car in 1948, Holden 48-215. The Holden was and is still produced by General Motors Holden a division of GM. To encourage local production, Tarrifs were kept high but did vary due to politics. In Australia (and most Commonwealth countries) there were less tarrifs applied to British Commonwealth manufactured goods. So to reduce duties Chrysler (and other US manufacturers) exported out of Canada, a commonwealth country and generally assembled in the destination country.

An interesting exception was New Zealand which I believe imported their cars directly from the USA.

Here is a pic of my roadster.

[Niel Hoback]

Boy, now thats a good looking car! Welcome to the forum.

[RobertKB]

Welcome to the forum. Lots of us think it is the best one on the WWW. That is a sweet looking car that you own. Also, thanks for the explanation. It makes sense and why Canada, where I live, exported so many cars to Commonwealth countries.

[62spde55]

Thanks guys. Glad to help with some info.

[Plymouthy Adams]

go to allpar web site..there is a lot of information and I do think there was a section on the export models...

[Captain Neon]

In a recent Plymouth Bulletin (POC), they did a special issue on exported Plymouths. Some countries had minimum local content requirements. To meet those requirements, Plymouths were shipped as parts in crates and certain parts were sourced locally to meet government requirements. The entire vehicle was then assembled by the dealer or his designee. The differences in some countries could be as varied as what the new owner wanted and where each dealer purchased local parts. If I were an Argentinian Plymouth dealer and a customer wanted DeSoto trim or Chrysler seats for his new Plymouth, I'd accomodate him as best I could.

[Plymouthy Adams]

one of the important aspects was the lower HP engine of the Plymouth...making it the ideal export platform

[B-Watson]

Chrysler of Canada began building Plymouth-based Dodges for the 1934 model year. Dodge had a very stong following and the lower prices attracted thousands of sales. Pricing was very important in Canada during the 1930's where the depression hit harder than in the U.S.

Chrysler in the U.S. looked at the situation and must have thought it would be a way to increase sales in export markets where large cars were not selling. Thus in 1935 Chrysler in Detroit began building Plymouth-based Dodge cars for export and then added DeSoto in 1938. Chrysler also offered a small bore (2-7/8") engine for export markets.

Many countries taxed cars annually on engine size, using a formula based on bore size and number of cylinders, but not the stroke. Thus small bore, long stroke engines were common in Europe.

Canadian manufacturers exported to all Commonwealth countries (including New Zealand), although Britain had a number of American cars as Britain did not offer preferential treatment to Commonwealth countries. At least not to the extent the member countries did. By the way, all Ford companies in the British Commonwealth except Britain were subsidiaries of Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited, the only company not completely owned by its American parent.

Canada, under Conservative Prime Minister Richard Bedford Bennett, changed the auto import duties in 1931 to a flat rate, less the value of Canadian content, which included the cost if all Canadian sourced parts (hoses, tires, radiators, etc.) and labour paid to Canadians to build the cars.

This resulted in Hupp reopening its Windsor plant, Graham and Packard each leasing factories in Windsor and Hudson contracting Canadian Top and Body in Tilbury, Ontario, to build cars for them. Reo contracted Dominion Motors Limited, formerly Durant Motors of Canada, to build Reo cars and trucks for the Canadian market.

Willys went bankrupt in 1932, including the Canadian subsidiary, so Willys production at their Toronto plant ended in late 1932.

But a big change came in 1936 with the Liberal government under William Lyon Mackenzie King when they dropped the adjustable tariff for a flat rate. The first result was the closing of the Graham, Hupp and Studebaker plants in 1936. Packard closed in 1939 and Hudson in 1941.

After King died Canadians found out a few things about him - he spoke to F.D.R. in 1947 about the purpose of the U.N. even though F.D.R. died in 1945, often had talks with his dead mother and dog and built Greek ruins brought from various buildings torn down and erected at Kingsmere near Ottawa. Sort of went with Canada's first Prime Minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, who was an alcoholic. His main opponent was George Brown, a teatotaller, which resulted in the comment that Canadians preferred Macdonald drunk to Brown sober.

As for the Big Three, Ford of Canada dropped the small 2.2-litre V8 engine for1938 and the Canadian Pontiac 6 adopted a big bore OHV Chevrolet six (224-cid). GM built only coupes and sedans in Canada with all other models imported. As well, all 8-cylinder Pontiac and Oldsmobile models and Olds 6 engine blocks were imported.

Chrysler of Canada also began building coupe and sedans models only for 1937, importing the rest, and for 1938 opened an engine plant building 25" block 6-cylinder engines. With that all 8-cylinder models were imported.

In 1938 GM of Canada began building a Chevrolet with a Pontiac front end. For 1941 the Chevrolet-based Pontiac Fleetleader began to use Pontiac's flathead six, albeit with Chevrolet's torque tube drive.

After WW II, Ford decided to split its dealer networks - Ford and Lincoln-Mercury. Given the size of the U.S. market this was no problem, but in Canada with the soft sales of big cars, something had to be done. Thus Canadian Ford dealers became Ford-Monarch dealers with the Monarch using the Ford body with the Mercury front clip and a grille with horizontal bars.

Mercury dealers got the Mercury 114, a Mercury body with a Ford front clip and Mercury grille. For 1949 the Mercury 114 became the Meteor.

GM of Canada dealers were Chevrolet-Oldsmobile and Pontiac-Buick. The latter usually sold GM trucks and Cadillacs sold at the bigger GM dealers. As Buicks were imported after WW II, Pontiac-Buick dealers got the Vauxhall for 1949.

Also after WW II, Canada began having currency problems, as did every country in the world except the U.S.A., and late in 1947 set restrictions on what could be imported from the U.S. Thus 8-cylinder Olds, Pontiac, Buick and Cadillac models could be imported only with government approval. The same held for all GM convertibles, Chrysler Corporation convertibles, 8-cylinder Chryslers and Lincolns. The other manufacturers had the number of models they could import restricted, usually the lowest priced models.

Studebaker purchased a plant from the Canadian government in 1946 and Nash purchased Ford of Canada's plant in Toronto. Thus Studebaker began building Champion sedans in mid-1948 and added coupes when 1949 production began in February, 1949. Nash began building Statesman sedans in April 1950 and Hudson contracted Chatco Steel Products (formerly C T & to build Pacemaker sedans. Kaiser built 4-door sedans in a leased portion of the old Durant/Frontenac/Reo plant.

With the Korean War, pressure on the Canadian dollar let up and import restrictions were dropped. The only casualty was Kaiser, who stopped Canadian production at the end of 1951 and imported all models.

Chrysler of Canada began building Saratoga and FireDome V8 models for 1952 by importing short blocks from the U.S. and adding Canadian-made parts (manifolds, valve covers, oil pans, water pumps, etc.).

The Canadian Ford and Meteor models did not adopt ball-joint front suspension and ohv V8 engines until the 1955 model year. Production of US Pontiac models came to an end and the 1955 Canadian Pontiacs were Chevrolets with Pontiac-styled sheetmetal and instrument panels. Chrysler of Canada imported Plymouth V8 engines for Canadian 1955 Plymouths and small Dodges. Chrysler of Canada did not export 1955 models.

With the big three coming out with compacts for 1960, the export market for the Plymouth-based cars began to dry up. The intermediate-sized Plymouths, Dodge Darts and Ford Fairlanes were also more welcome in export markets. Chrysler and Ford would use their compact models to begin production of cars in many foreign markets. As well, the Big Three's European subsidiaries were a source of cars for markets all over the world.

In 1957 Chrysler Australia began building the Chrysler Royal, an updated 1954 Plymouth with 1956 Plymouth rear quarters and fron clip. This was the first model built a Chrysler plant outside Canada and the U.S. not based on a CKD unit. The mid-1960's saw the expansion of the non-U.S. models using, as stated, Valiant and Dart stampings. South America and South Africa were the major markets entered.

By the 1990's American cars were marketed only in North America. Any sales in other markets were very small. Smaller cars from GM and Ford sold in North America were based on products of their European subsidiaries. Chrysler had sold all their non-North American operations during 1978 to 1980.

The Ford-based Meteor came to and end when the intermediate Mercury Meteor appeared for 1962. Sales were not as strong as hoped, and for 1963 Ford of Canada introduced the Mercury 400 - a stripper Monterey with a Ford Custom interior. The Mercury 400 became the Meteor for 1964 and a new Mercury Custom appeared with a Ford Custom 300 interior.

For 1965 the Meteor again became a full-fledged make to do battle against the Canadian Dodge with Plymouth interiors and the Canadian Chevrolet-based Pontiacs.

The Monarch also came to an end for 1962 with the shrinking of the Mercury models and the addition of higher priced Fords.

In 1963 Canada again adopted a sliding import tariff on auto parts from the U.S. with exports being applied against imports. Thus the stage was set for Studebaker transferring South Bend production to Hamilton in December, 1963.

Complete free trade in cars and parts between Canada and the U.S. occurred in 1965 with the signing of the Auto Trade Agreement (Autopact). This agreement put the nails in the coffins of the Canadian Dodges, Meteors and Pontiacs.

Exports and Canada in brief.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[RobertKB]

Bill, thanks again for being a fount of knowledge. Even living in Canada, I learned some things I did not know, especially the different types of tariffs and their effect on the types of cars produced. You set the gold standard for factual replies!

Edited September 13, 2009 by RobertKB
spelling....sorry, I am an old Language Arts (English) teacher.

[randroid]

Bill,

That was a magnificent chronology, and thank you for posting it!

-Randy

[Frank Elder]

Thanks once again Bill:)

[Oldguy48]

A round of applause is in order for all the responses to my question. It seems there were a lot more factors involved in these differences than I ever imagined. Thanks again to all.

[Niel Hoback]

Thank you, Bill. I always wondered about that. Excellent job!

[40phil41]

FYI, the Plymouth Bulletin No. 151 (March-April 1985) has a very good feature article on the Canadian Plymouth bodied Dodges. It is titled "The Plymouth Connection of Canada's Dodge" written by Larry Knutson.

Phil