Charlie Olson Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 I have recently heard about an oil supplement called ZDDP PLUS. Does anyone know anything about it? I have been using Shell Rototella(sp) in my oil. Quote
David Strieb Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 Last time I mentioned ZDDP here, there was a call for scientific proof that it did any benefit. I was told by a retired GM mechanic (a well respected man in the car circles) that it replaces the zinc that has been taken out of motor oil. I use it, see above. Quote
Captain Neon Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 I use ZDDP in my oil, but I also use tetraethtyl lead additive too. Now I've really stirred the pot... Quote
dezeldoc Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 If you don't run some kind of zink supplement you will be finding lots of flat cams. Quote
daddyo23 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 Valvoline VR1 racing oil has zinc in it. Quote
Byronb3b Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 Duron single viscosity oils manufactured by Petro Canada have the highest zinc content that is currently available, I use it in all of my 40's and 50's Mopars. Quote
TodFitch Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 I figure that any oil I buy nowadays will be better than the oil the engineers expected to be available back when they designed the L-6 engine in the early 1930s. That was also back when you had to pay extra to "fill it with ethyl" so they knew they had to put in hardened exhaust valve seats too. So the cheapest name brand multi-viscosity oil and the cheapest name brand gas are more than good enough for my old Mopar. Quote
dezeldoc Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 I figure that any oil I buy nowadays will be better than the oil the engineers expected to be available back when they designed the L-6 engine in the early 1930s. That was also back when you had to pay extra to "fill it with ethyl" so they knew they had to put in hardened exhaust valve seats too.So the cheapest name brand multi-viscosity oil and the cheapest name brand gas are more than good enough for my old Mopar. Not true grasshopper!, the zink keeps the friction from eating up the hard parts such as cams, lifters, oil pump and drive gear to name a few. the new cars all have roller cams and such and don't need the extra zink. gotta remember the old oil was parafin based and would stick to anything. Quote
Frank Elder Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 I thought you only needed the zinc for the cam break in period, then that oil was changed out for standard formula oil. I have a case of Shell "break in" oil in the old style cans at home. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 per a couple web sites you are right Frankie..break in period..even with todays modern engines it is recommend to break the engine in to the tune of about 6000 miles before switching from dino to symthetic...of course running zinc enriched oil and the correct amount of additive can give one piece of mind ..can you imagine the number of L6's being chunked for the install of newer V8's just because of a little zinc...lol Quote
desoto1939 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 I went to a speed shop and have purchased a product that adds the zinc/phos back into the engine. As stated before the newer oils have removed the antiwear additives. Since our cars use solid lifter and value tappets we need to put the additive back into the oils. Also with the newer oils that we are using in our everyeday car the oil is getting to the engine and the necessary parts on a dilay basis so the oil protection is almost always present. With our older cars we might not drive for over several weeks and during this time frame the oil will then run off the cylindar wall and off the other parts. We need to keep the protection onthe parts and the additive is some what aliitle sticky and will prevent the parts from being bare metal to bare metal. Use about 6 oz every oil change. These engine have to last so allitle extra protection an peace of mind never hurts. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com Quote
55 Fargo Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 Okay I as using Shell Rotella T 15 W 40, then started using Castrol GTX 20 W 50. Now do these particular Oils have zinc? There is also an oil you can buy in Canada Duron straight weights 30 or 40 , it has zinc in it, should I maybe try these oils? Quote
James_Douglas Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 All the stuff about zinc is dog poo. Read my comments in the archives. My rebuild 251 with a NORS cam and new lifters has run for the last 4 years without any additives. My car is run under heavy load on the hills here in San Francisco and on high speed runs (65-70) on the freeway around the state. I pulled a lifter out out a few months back and it and the cam lobe looked as good as new. The ASTM (SAE) folks that do the independent tests for the oil companies to certify their oils use flat tappet lifters in in-line six engines to do the oil tests. Under controlled conditions. They have found no evidence of any kind of cam/tappet problems with the new oils. There have been confirmed reports however of cam and tappets that failed the basic Rockwell Hardness tests. The zinc additive is a Hot Rod myth and people a laughing all the way to the bank. James Quote
55 Fargo Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 All the stuff about zinc is dog poo. Read my comments in the archives. My rebuild 251 with a NORS cam and new lifters has run for the last 4 years without any additives. My car is run under heavy load on the hills here in San Francisco and on high speed runs (65-70) on the freeway around the state. I pulled a lifter out out a few months back and it and the cam lobe looked as good as new. The ASTM (SAE) folks that do the independent tests for the oil companies to certify their oils use flat tappet lifters in in-line six engines to do the oil tests. Under controlled conditions. They have found no evidence of any kind of cam/tappet problems with the new oils. There have been confirmed reports however of cam and tappets that failed the basic Rockwell Hardness tests. The zinc additive is a Hot Rod myth and people a laughing all the way to the bank. James Thanx James, my memory is good, sometimes short though. I will re-read your post from before. Very interesting they still use flat tappet engines for the testing of oils. I would also think Chryslers full pressure lubrication would help a lot, say compared to the Chevy Stovebolt 6 splash system oil lubrication....... Quote
Young Ed Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 The only person I ever ran into that claimed to have an issue was a guy building a 350 chev. He said his came never made it past break in. It was new and probably made of cheap china steel. I've got 9K miles on my flathead and I run Napa 10W40 which is made by valvoline. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 I would agree to some point that the light pressure springs used on these engines as maybe not having a real problem..but up them with a set of stiffer springs (not necessary the flattie but other engine) and break that cam and lifter in without regard to pressure and protection...will see you and your car in the garage..I literally laugh my butt off at meets and such when a hi-po engine fails in the parking lot..idiots overbuild it for the street and eat a cam alive idling it just to hear the whomp whomp...funny as can be...some of these idiots are on their 4th or 5th cam and still complain that the it seems every company no longer knows how to grind a cam to last...fine line between built-up and broke down Quote
dezeldoc Posted June 10, 2009 Report Posted June 10, 2009 Let me find the big red warning from the cam maker that i just put in my 350, and you can argue it with them, don't know about canada but here in cali they have reformulated the oils for smog reasons. the reformulation was done within the last 1-1 1/2 year. Quote
54Illinois Posted July 15, 2012 Report Posted July 15, 2012 I recently inquired via email about Citgo SAE 30. In the email I was told that the oil has about 800ppm and contains enough newer additives to protect the older motors. How much will ZDDP add in ppm? Quote
TodFitch Posted July 15, 2012 Report Posted July 15, 2012 I recently inquired via email about Citgo SAE 30.In the email I was told that the oil has about 800ppm and contains enough newer additives to protect the older motors. How much will ZDDP add in ppm? Old thread resurrected.... Yep they decreased the allowable amount of zinc in motor oil recently. It is now back to about the same level they increased it to in the mid-1950s to cover wear on the then new high performance OHV V8 engines. Current oil still has more zinc in it than oil did when your L-6 engine Plymouth was new and a lot more than it did when that engine was designed in the early 1930s. Get the ZDDP for your oil. And get the diamonds for your dog's collar too. Both will make you feel good. But neither Plymouth nor your dog will be better off. Quote
55 Fargo Posted July 15, 2012 Report Posted July 15, 2012 Old thread resurrected....Yep they decreased the allowable amount of zinc in motor oil recently. It is now back to about the same level they increased it to in the mid-1950s to cover wear on the then new high performance OHV V8 engines. Current oil still has more zinc in it than oil did when your L-6 engine Plymouth was new and a lot more than it did when that engine was designed in the early 1930s. Get the ZDDP for your oil. And get the diamonds for your dog's collar too. Both will make you feel good. But neither Plymouth nor your dog will be better off. I concur, Buy some "quality" oil, and forget all this crapola about the Zinc. I still use Rotella T, and I do know it has plenty of zinc, not sure what I am using next, as I am out of Rotella, used the last of my 5 gallon pail.. Quote
greg g Posted July 15, 2012 Report Posted July 15, 2012 Our cams are not made in China, That is the source for most of the aftermarket cams that fail. If you think you need zink other that to shorten you cold symptoms, or keep your nose from getting sunburn, put in some STP, it apparently still has the stuff in it. Quote
54Illinois Posted July 16, 2012 Report Posted July 16, 2012 I threw in the Citgo SAE30 because it is cheaper than most other weights. Seems 5W-30 has the same amount of zinc as well. I found this post on a search, due to my concerns. Figured I would bump it up in case anyone new is wondering...I was. Quote
randroid Posted July 16, 2012 Report Posted July 16, 2012 Gents, When STP was first introduced it was straight 180 wt. non-detergent Shell oil with no additives. Don't know if they changed that or not. -Randy Quote
greg g Posted July 16, 2012 Report Posted July 16, 2012 from bob the oil guys site "STP was analyzed on the 1st page of the sticky of VOAs. It's <2000ppm undiluted and comes in a vehicle of very thick (~105 CsT @ 100 C.) oil." Quote
greg g Posted July 16, 2012 Report Posted July 16, 2012 from bob the oil guys site "STP was analyzed on the 1st page of the sticky of VOAs. It's <2000ppm undiluted and comes in a vehicle of very thick (~105 CsT @ 100 C.) oil." and Over 2000 ppm (I'm not sure whether Zn or P, use Zn to be safe since it's ~10% higher) can attack camshaft lobes and cause catastrophic chunking. Be very careful with these additives Quote
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