Modern engine/transmission

[dgrinnan]

Have any of you replaced the flat head six in your 47 WC 1/2 ton?  I am not looking for some high horse power conversion, just wonder what engine swaps you might have done.  What matching standard shift transmission did you use.  

[Solga]

I do not think you will get very many responses on this. But I, too, am curious about this information.  

 

Solga

[Plymouthy Adams]

383 with A833 four speed, floor shifter in my 1941 Dodge military 1/2 ton

[Young Ed]

If you don't need high HP I'd consider some sort of v6 from a Dakota with the matching 5spd. Never done it though 

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

Flatheads forever!!!  ?

[dgrinnan]

My goal is to get my current flathead running.  I posted the question thinking ahead just in case it has a major issue once I fire it up.  Been sitting for 15-20 years.

[John-T-53]

There is/was a member here @Charles Furman who I believe installed a modern metric mopar hemi into his woodie.....

[Los_Control]

Something I have never done, but lately  I have seen a few 283 sbc come up for sale dirt cheap in my area.

Many if not all of them used or had the option for a horseshoe motor mount like our flatheads use. It would be easy to mount to our frames.

You would need to make a rear cross member .... There are some pretty slick aftermarket universal rear cross members you could just bolt into place wherever you needed it.

There is a huge assortment of exhaust manifolds available to clear the steering box.

Just about any chevrolet transmission from automatic to stick would bolt up to it.

It would just be a easy conversion, lots of used & new parts available, dependable .... list goes on why to use one, very small list on why not to use one.

 

Myself I picked up a 51 Ford flathead V8/4spd truck engine. It mounts on top of the frame from the water pumps, like a horseshoe mount we use. So it will be just as easy to install as a 283 as mentioned above. ....... yeah I would not recommend it to another though.

[Jim Shepard]

Don't know what kind of horse power your looking for and I did consider (even purchased) a "baby hemi" from a 1954 Dodge Coronet.  These are 241 ci and the one I picked up had been previously bored 60 over. Never got around to mating it to a transmission but my choice would have been some version of the Torqueflite. Eventually, after a friend gave me a 230 flathead out of a 1956 1 ton, I went with that. I bored it 60 over, put in a mild cam with factory 2bb Stromberg and Fenton headers. Additionally, I swapped out the transmission for a Borg-Warner S10 five speed with overdrive and a 3.73 axle from a Ford Ranger. Eventually, I'll install front disc brakes. While not exactly a speed demon, it's plenty fast for my needs, which are mainly to stay out of everyone's way.

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, Jim Shepard said:

Don't know what kind of horse power your looking for and I did consider (even purchased) a "baby hemi" from a 1954 Dodge Coronet.  These are 241 ci and the one I picked up had been previously bored 60 over. Never got around to mating it to a transmission but my choice would have been some version of the Torqueflite. Eventually, after a friend gave me a 230 flathead out of a 1956 1 ton, I went with that. I bored it 60 over, put in a mild cam with factory 2bb Stromberg and Fenton headers. Additionally, I swapped out the transmission for a Borg-Warner S10 five speed with overdrive and a 3.73 axle from a Ford Ranger. Eventually, I'll install front disc brakes. While not exactly a speed demon, it's plenty fast for my needs, which are mainly to stay out of everyone's way.

That baby hemi is a great little engine, especially in its 270 and 315CI  versions.   I looked for one or even an early 318 poly before settling on a 230.  But, I have chosen parts that will mate with an early V8 when/if I feel the need for more power.  60 truck clutch housing has 230 and 8Cyl bolt patterns and bolts to the crossmember from the same truck transplanted to my 56 1/2T.  I'm using a Plymouth flywheel,  10" pressure plate with a 70s clutch disk that fits my A833 trans, but I put the flywheel which is an 8 bolt version drilled for an 11" clutch on the shelf, just in case..  So, an upgrade only requires a front mount.

[kencombs]

On 7/15/2022 at 3:16 PM, Los_Control said:

Something I have never done, but lately  I have seen a few 283 sbc come up for sale dirt cheap in my area.

Many if not all of them used or had the option for a horseshoe motor mount like our flatheads use. It would be easy to mount to our frames.

You would need to make a rear cross member .... There are some pretty slick aftermarket universal rear cross members you could just bolt into place wherever you needed it.

There is a huge assortment of exhaust manifolds available to clear the steering box.

Just about any chevrolet transmission from automatic to stick would bolt up to it.

It would just be a easy conversion, lots of used & new parts available, dependable .... list goes on why to use one, very small list on why not to use one.

 

Myself I picked up a 51 Ford flathead V8/4spd truck engine. It mounts on top of the frame from the water pumps, like a horseshoe mount we use. So it will be just as easy to install as a 283 as mentioned above. ....... yeah I would not recommend it to another though.

Don't be limited to 283s,  350s are the same physical dimensions and some are drilled for front mounts.  But, Mopars 8s are as cheap or cheaper and come with Torqueflites, arguably the best of the 3spd automatics.  The only advantage the Chevy has is the starter location.  RT side doesn't interfere with steering..

 

Both front and rear universal crossmember kits are available for either.

[Los_Control]

8 minutes ago, kencombs said:

Don't be limited to 283s,  350s are the same physical dimensions and some are drilled for front mounts. 

Yes sir I would not argue with you on that.

 

The 318 mopar engine may or may not be superior.  We like it because it gives us a warm fuzzy feeling.

While there are many Transmissions available for the 318, several bolt patterns to chose from.... I did suggest the sbc for the ease of transmission choices because they all use the same bolt pattern.

 

I'm simply not recommending  a Dodge engine because there is too many options for the transmission, Too many gotcha for the exhaust or carburetor. .... simply depends on what others feel important .....

 

Either will work, you just will not see me suggesting Dodge over Chevy.

[LazyK]

here is a possible thread of interest

 

[wallytoo]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:01 AM, dgrinnan said:

Have any of you replaced the flat head six in your 47 WC 1/2 ton?  I am not looking for some high horse power conversion, just wonder what engine swaps you might have done.  What matching standard shift transmission did you use.  

 

why?   if you cannot figure out how to set your distributor/timing in your flathead, how are you going to manage an engine swap, with the accompanying bellhousing change, transmission change, rear mount change (with new bellhousing), etc.?    that undertaking is far more difficult than correctly setting the timing in a dodge flathead.  this is one of the easier engines to set the timing on.   not trying to rain on your parade; just a dose of reality.

[kencombs]

3 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Yes sir I would not argue with you on that.

 

The 318 mopar engine may or may not be superior.  We like it because it gives us a warm fuzzy feeling.

While there are many Transmissions available for the 318, several bolt patterns to chose from.... I did suggest the sbc for the ease of transmission choices because they all use the same bolt pattern. 
I am aware of only 2 bolt patterns on modern Mopar v8s and 90deg v6s, big block and small block.  Two transmissions, 904 and 727.  904 most common on 318s.  but both interchange, especially if buying a package.  Either is head and shoulders above a T350 usually found with 350s, that according to every trans shop ever.  And the T400 is a huge power hog.

Small block mopars are equal or better than the competition in terms of reliability.  There biggest drawbacks are fewer sources of aftermarket parts, both stock and high performance and the resulting higher cost.

 

I'm simply not recommending  a Dodge engine because there is too many options ttransmission, Too many gotcha for the exhaust or carburetor. .... simply depends on what others feel important .....

 

Either will work, you just will not see me suggesting Dodge over Chevy.

 

[dgrinnan]

Timing is not the concern. I have never had a distributor pulled out and just wanted someone looking over my shoulder.  i don't want to rush and thought it would be good to have someone helping me double check everything.  I will have the flathead running this week. I am only speculating about replacement engines in case once I fire up the flathead I discover there is some un-repairable internal damage that might have been the reason it was parked to begin with. None of this scares me.  I just like to double and triple check before I commit so I don't have to redo anything, 

Edited July 19, 2022 by dgrinnan

[Tooljunkie]

Thats what convinced me to do the swap. #6 has low compression,and its for sure rings. Waiting for rebuild parts, and maybe having to sleeve it wasnt in the cards. 3 weeks of downtime and i couldnt be happier with my 360. That being said, a small block chevy would have been less trouble to graft in. 

[dgrinnan]

No replacement engine needed. The flathead started. I had a guy that has been working on these old vehicles for 56 years stop by.  My first issue is the distributor shaft bushing is worn out and there is too much play in the shaft allow the timing to vary as much as 2-5 degrees. My carburetor also needs rebuilt.  With all these problems we were able to get it to start and run.  We had to hook up a 12v battery to get the engine to spin fast enough.   Now that I know it runs and it actually sounded pretty good I still have some work to do.  I have pulled the distributor and the carburetor.  Both will be rebuilt.  Once that is done, we can fine tune everything.