49 plymouth drum brake wheels don't fit disc brakes

[1949 p17]

we just found out that the inside of the wheel has curved sections that allow no room for a caliper. so now we need to find wheels that will work and that look like plymouth wheels. what wheels have you used after installing disc brakes?

[Loren]

I don't have disc brakes, I have 12 inch Chrysler Drum Brakes but I ran into the same problem.

There's this one little spot that hits the drum before the wheel seats on the drum flange.

You can look for some Chrysler wheels or better yet some Imperial wheels or you can do what I did.

I ordered some U.S. Wheels from Summit Racing which have a 3.5 inch back space and are 6 inches wide. I had to drill a hole for the line up pin on the stock Mopar drums and they don't have the small diameter centering hole for the hub register on the drum but they will work because the lug bolts center the wheels.

Finally because there is no accommodation for the original hub caps I decided to use original Mopar accessory full wheel covers.

The problem is the wheels I choose are not stocked, they have to be made for you and it takes 6 weeks.

If I did it again, I would call U.S. Wheel directly (714)892-0021

Their web site www.uswheel.com has a lot of information.

Ideally if you could find Chrysler wheels you could snap your dog dish hub caps on.

The Imperial wheels I believe were 6.5 inches wide. These are the ones Lee Petty used on his 49 Coupe for NASCAR. In stead of the 6.40 x 15 tires he was using 8.70 x 15 tires with a 4.3 to 1 final drive ratio.

You might google him for a photo of what they look like.

When I put the U.S. Wheels on my Coupe with the 205/75/15s that were on the original wheels they fill up the wheel wells more and make the car look lower.

The steering effort when parking seems only slightly greater if at all.

 

[Sniper]

The Rusty Hope disc kit fits my 51 Cambridge's stock wheels just fine.

 

Who's kit are you using?

[Doug&Deb]

I have 15x7 Mopar police wheels on my Coronet.

[58prostreet]

It's been a while, but I remember having to grind a small amount off of the caliper body to get it to fit my '52 Dodge..I have a Plydo kit on the Dodge,so you know it's been a while. I have stock 15in. wheels.

 

[Sniper]

8 hours ago, Doug&Deb said:

I have 15x7 Mopar police wheels on my Coronet.

 I test fit one on m 51, it just barely clears the pass side steering arm, my test rim is a hair bent and just rubs.

[Booger]

jeez once again the drum to disc change over has bitten a lot of peeps in the the posterior.

Correctly adjusted drum brakes should perform well.

[RobertKB]

2 hours ago, Booger said:

jeez once again the drum to disc change over has bitten a lot of peeps in the the posterior.

Correctly adjusted drum brakes should perform well.

My thoughts exactly!

[Plymouthy Adams]

a conversion is no worse than attempting the repair of the stock system without the correct tools to do that job.  Done right with forethought taken before spending the money, inspection and mock up before the modification is as paramount as securing the right tools for stock.  Most all mods have a trade off and you need to study these for I assure you the guy marketing an item will be hesitant to advertise the fact that you will require modern wheels.  Many folks are then either having to back up to stock or lose their wheels, often expensive WWWs and the very hub caps that define the car.  Asking after the fact does little to help except to point out you going to be deep in your pockets again for the fix.  Many do the conversion and cause gain pain to the purists for what reason it bothers them I cannot figure out as they have no stock or say in another man's project.  But I will say first off that not every person has access to the proper tools for the original brakes as they are very specific on setup.  That same person may also not have any shop in his area with the proper tools.  Reading some of the threads posted just this week is a nightmare come true on farming out your cars for repair work.   It appears they did nothing right....risk you take farming out.  As for one kit over another....bolt in verse tap a hole....if you cannot tap a hole, you should not be working on a brake system at all is my opinion....that and a 1.50 will get you a small coffee most places.  

[Bryan]

3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

a conversion is no worse than attempting the repair of the stock system without the correct tools to do that job.   

You're not talking about me doing the round and round on that master cylinder clip are you?  ? ?  Concerning mods, right now I just want to get mine running. I went to dual headers only because I broke the exhaust manifold (and it already was cracked on the end).  I would rather do everything original, drive it around a couple of years, and when I had money and time maybe change something like brakes if I found it needed it, or dual carbs just to tinker.  Then I'd have a baseline to compare the change against.   Of course I wouldn't want to find out I needed better brakes by planting in the rear of a semi..  Drive very carefully.

[Plymouthy Adams]

no....just mods in general....well thought out and executed modification of all sorts working with safety and maintainability in mind, that is main concern over if or if not stock.

[Loren]

3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

a conversion is no worse than attempting the repair of the stock system without the correct tools to do that job.  Done right with forethought taken before spending the money, inspection and mock up before the modification is as paramount as securing the right tools for stock.  Most all mods have a trade off and you need to study these for I assure you the guy marketing an item will be hesitant to advertise the fact that you will require modern wheels.  Many folks are then either having to back up to stock or lose their wheels, often expensive WWWs and the very hub caps that define the car.  Asking after the fact does little to help except to point out you going to be deep in your pockets again for the fix.  Many do the conversion and cause gain pain to the purists for what reason it bothers them I cannot figure out as they have no stock or say in another man's project.  But I will say first off that not every person has access to the proper tools for the original brakes as they are very specific on setup.  That same person may also not have any shop in his area with the proper tools.  Reading some of the threads posted just this week is a nightmare come true on farming out your cars for repair work.   It appears they did nothing right....risk you take farming out.  As for one kit over another....bolt in verse tap a hole....if you cannot tap a hole, you should not be working on a brake system at all is my opinion....that and a 1.50 will get you a small coffee most places.  

 

When it comes to brakes, disc or drum if the objective is to get some kind of improvement, then I believe wheels will be changed and it will be voluntary or involuntary. In brakes bigger is always better (on the front at least). Late model cars are going to 16, 18 even 20 inch wheels to accommodate those big brakes. 

 

However, if you want to keep a stock look I've learned (the hard way) that you can change to an aftermarket wheel for clearance then cover it up with Mopar accessory full wheel covers of the period. That's doable even if it seems illogical. Why would a car have expensive full wheel covers if it came with equipment delete panels everywhere? I mean my 3 passenger coupe was the cheapest of the low priced Plymouths, so cheap that they even left out six seat springs then offered two different kits to put them back in! Trust me I am actively looking for seat springs of all things!

The best purist solution to the wheel/big brake issue is to find Chrysler or Imperial wheels. They fit over 12 inch drums and likely any disc brake. We know they fit the Plymouth because Lee Petty said that's what he used. (with the 8.70 x 15 tires as well)

 

 When you commit to an old car, you either have the skills (and tools) to maintain it or you aspire to them. My experience professionally came way after my 49 Plymouth's era (my ownership experience dates in the 1970s) so I am one of those who aspire to the skills needed to maintain my car. The Lockheed style brakes do require a certain amount of knowledge to maintain but once acquired it isn't going to leave you. In fact if one did learn what is needed to make Lockheed Brakes work and applied it to Bendix Brakes, they'll work better too so it's not a wasted effort. 

[Adam H P15 D30]

14 hours ago, Booger said:

jeez once again the drum to disc change over has bitten a lot of peeps in the the posterior.

Correctly adjusted drum brakes should perform well.

For you rural folks, I'm sure they do.  Try them in San Francisco traffic / hills and get back to us...

[Plymouthy Adams]

4 hours ago, Loren said:

 

When it comes to brakes, disc or drum if the objective is to get some kind of improvement, then I believe wheels will be changed and it will be voluntary or involuntary. In brakes bigger is always better (on the front at least). Late model cars are going to 16, 18 even 20 inch wheels to accommodate those big brakes. 

 

 

 

I believe a bigger part of the larger wheels also incorporates the same full look wheel well look with the lower profile tire to eliminate the sidewall flex and put the better handling back into the car to offer performance at a much lower cost to them and ultimately the buying public.  I have 12.1 rotors on my Plymouth, it also has ABS brakes...and the idea was to use the 16" alloys factory Mopar wheels long before the brakes were ever installed.   I set out with an end build in mind and that is the course I stayed.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

For you rural folks, I'm sure they do.  Try them in San Francisco traffic / hills and get back to us...

Yeah in SC, you get few hills. What's fun is if you get NW of Spartanburg and start heading up into the mountains.  My 2015 Corolla was having fun with those. ?

[Plymouthy Adams]

SC's Piedmont region is flat out beautiful country.....little trip to the top of Caesar's Head will let you know you having fun....my favorite place in the southeast is Table Rock State Park...have done every trail, many of them more than once, most three or more times.   Get a chance to cruise Highway 11....I do not think you will be disappointed.  

[Loren]

3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

 

I believe a bigger part of the larger wheels also incorporates the same full look wheel well look with the lower profile tire to eliminate the sidewall flex and put the better handling back into the car to offer performance at a much lower cost to them and ultimately the buying public.  I have 12.1 rotors on my Plymouth, it also has ABS brakes...and the idea was to use the 16" alloys factory Mopar wheels I installed long before the brakes these brakes were ever installed.   I set out with an end build in mind and that is the course I stayed.

 

What gets me all "agro" (as my kids call it) are huge wheels with tiny brakes inside.

If you are serious about giant brakes then the wheels should just barely fit. 12.1 inch rotors qualify because with the calipers you'll need 16s or even 18s.

I know I rail on disc brakes but usually they are not much of an improvement because the ones chosen are too small, so why do it?

And most folks have it in their mind that universally disc brakes will make you stop better, which is not always true.

My logic has been if 10 inch drums work, 11 inch drums will work better and 12 inch drums will work better still.

Mr Adams' project is certainly ambitious! And I will wager it works too.

What I've learned is that 11 inch DeSoto drums will fit Plymouth wheels but 12 inch Chryslers will not.

If you go shopping for 12 inch Chryslers get the wheels too.

What I am trying to do with my ride is to put together not the most modern or even the best car but one a dealer mechanic in the 1950s would have built for himself.

So far Tim Kingsbury has the best example of the car I want and it has a story behind it. It seems his Grandmother ordered it new with all the good parts!

Now that's a gal I'd like to have met!

[later]

I purchased my disc conversion from ECI. I got this info from their site. When I talked to them they told me that stock rims would not fit. Still in planning stages for changing brakes over next summer. I also got the manual master cylinder conversion. https://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/catalog.html

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

4 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

For you rural folks, I'm sure they do.  Try them in San Francisco traffic / hills and get back to us...

There were many DeSoto taxi's driven in San Francisco up and down every hill every day...traffic was heavy the too.

Today...lining material is wrong and owners don't set them up right...and then drive them everyday to wear and bed them in.

[jhm1mc13]

My Charlie Ackers disk kit works fine.      I vote for SC Hwy 11

[Adam H P15 D30]

4 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

There were many DeSoto taxi's driven in San Francisco up and down every hill every day...traffic was heavy the too.

Today...lining material is wrong and owners don't set them up right...and then drive them everyday to wear and bed them in.

There was a level playing field then, everyone had drum brakes...  Not so even now

[Dodgeb4ya]

People today grew up with perfect driving  cars and expect the same today.

I don't.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I agree and this really started back about the mid 70's.  The push was at that time to drop from the larger full size car to the more economical sized car and resulting smaller engines while demanding the same level of comfort and land yacht ride.....

[ratfinkxxx]

You could run wheel spacers.

 

[allbizz49]

Rusty hope.