New Car Wizard Video on Savoy!!

[CarWizard]

New video in my 1954 Savoy! With a shout out to our forum!

Edited November 28, 2021 by CarWizard

[keithb7]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. Some good points on upgrading the axle assembly. I'd be interested in hearing how the car feels at 65 mph. Is there much power left at that RPM to overcome wind resistance?

[greg g]

According to an on line calculator, rpm with 27.75 inch diameter tires, a 3.23 will give you in the zip code of 2400 to 2500 rpm.   Which is close to  where my OD runs with the 4.11 rear.  Without the over drive 3280 rpm gave me 62 on the speedo. So his noting of 4000 rpm at 60 is inflated a bit.

 

My concern is that the clutch is going to get a workout to be stressed taking off from stops in city and Suburban traffic.  Second gear will be more usable in traffic, and high gear cruise will be more relaxed, but hole shots on the Corolla ain't gonna be pretty.

 

But hey he took some advice from this forum and gave out a couple of shout outs for sources, options, ease of installation, and correctness of fit and economics of the swap. 

 

Hope it works out for him.  My guess the area of location is pretty flat so hills not a big concern.  But from my experience, heading west or southwest into the nearly constant 20 mph headwind might also be a concern.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJ194950]

I one took my 50 Ply. 4 dr. out to the freeway in afternoon traffic (not a great idea but- )  I have a 3.9 rear gears in stock rearend plus added R-10 OD trans. While the traffic normally runs 65 mph in the slow lane (there three thru town) I hit the 2nd lane and then then third and was passing everyone in the fast lane, maybe 80 in OD plus room to go faster per comfort and engine noise. Mostly flat, very small rises in elevation.

 

I woke up in short time about the traffic, big trucks and the my stock Brakes- which are great but-  What the hell was I doing? Slowed down and took the closest exit off of freeway!  ?

 

Time to slow down and head back home! Never tried that again!  ?

 

Just my short experience with gear ratios and rear gears.

 

BTY- 205-15 radials -aftermarket chromies wheels -230 CI motor w/B&B single -single stock exhaust.

 

DJ

[Loren]

The problem I have with this video is that there is some misinformation here.

1) The stock axle is weak. It is not. It's a very good design built very well.

2) The stock axle is expensive to fix. It is not. It uses Timkin Tapered Roller Bearings in standard sizes you can get anywhere. There are no proprietary bearings in this axle. If you think a supplier is ripping you off selling you cheap Chinese bearings at premium prices, then go to an industrial bearing place and buy genuine Timkin bearings and maybe save some money.

3) Only recent manufactured axles have the right ratios. Wrong. The example the video uses is 3.25 which is a pretty low numerical number for a Flathead 6. My P17 is the lightest mopar of 1949 and it came with a 3.73. I have a 3.54 ready to go in once I finish some other projects. With an Overdrive (which he does talk about) 3.25 in a 4 door is maybe too low a numerical ratio. Here's the rub, if he later installs an Overdrive, he'll be changing the axle once more. The axle he used is an integral unit. It is not easy to change ratios in those. With the stocker you simply change the 3rd member. If I am wrong about the 3.54 I can easily and quickly change back to 3.73.

4) Back to expensive to fix. Recently I saw a Craigslist ad for Mopar axles. The guy had 12 of them. He asked $100 each and got no takers. Then he asked $100 for all of them and got no takers. His last ad was FREE come and get em! My point is they don't break and if you need another one (to replace a bent axle like he had) they are CHEAP! Why enter into an engineering project if you don't have to?

5) Please refer to "Educate me about wheels and tires (and hubs and axles)" November 20th on this site. Then you'll know exactly why I do not recommend changing axles and brakes.

6) No body talks about getting your speedometer to read right. I do. The beauty of Mopar stuff is that there is continuity of design. In the cheapest Mopar of 1949 (my P17) I can use parts from bigger Chrysler Corp. cars. The speedo gears I used in my Overdrive came out of the original 3 speed. When I change to the 3.54 ratio I'll use a gear from another transmission (like a DeSoto I know about). All you need is a thin wall 1 1/16th inch socket and your life is simplified!

7) Modern brakes are better. Debatable. If you have the tools and the skills (or know someone who does) its not an issue. Friction is still friction, lining is still lining. You can still have your shoes relined with the very latest technology linings if you want. If your Lockheed brakes are done right they will perform very well and some folks prefer them. On the rear end of a light car like my P17 there is no reason to change the rear brakes. I have 12 inch Chryslers on the front and under certain conditions I can lock up the rear brakes so I see no reason to change them. Putting something bigger or more powerful on the back will make the car LESS safe.

 

 

Spend your time and money wisely is all I am saying. Don't scrap the original design without thinking about it very carefully. The engineers who designed the Plymouth knew what they were doing, have confidence in them.

[RobertKB]

Totally agree with the above. I appreciate the shout out he gave the forum but as mentioned some of the info he gave is a bit Dodgy (pun intended).

 

I have owned and put a lot of miles on five old flathead Mopars from 1938 to 1953. Never had a broken axle or even heard of one. I’ve had gear ratios from 3.73, 3.91, and 4.1. All cars cruise well at 55. New brake drums are expensive but older drums are plentiful. I’ve got a dozen or so sitting around but then again I’ve collected old Mopar parts for 40+ years. 

I have done road trips of several hundred miles in all. Just takes a little longer. Never owned one with overdrive but would be a plus. 
 

I appreciate car wizard plugging our forum. Also, he obviously likes his gorgeous ‘54 and that’s a huge plus! I know he will enjoy it and put lots of miles on!!

Edited November 29, 2021 by RobertKB

[plymouthcranbrook]

I saw the vid a couple of hours ago.  I enjoyed it and did not see ant reason to refrain from doing the work he has done. If I had a big shop like that and a talented group of mechanics as he does I would probably do likewise. Although to me the fun of the old Plymouths is  driving them as they were designed for. And for me that makes it a hobby car. Not that that is a whole lot different from how I use the newer ones.

Edited November 29, 2021 by plymouthcranbrook

[TravisL17]

Nice video and quick walk through on the install. I'd love to hear a follow-up on how it does on the highway.

[CarWizard]

Loren, I am saddened at such a harsh post by you. Which is flawed.

1. I did not say the axle is weak. My concern was cost.

2. The axle isn't so expensive, as the brakes are. For the cost of a new drum "$300",  I got an entire axle. Which in turn will also help my highway rpms, Which in turn makes my future brake jobs for the rear, dirt cheap.

3. I never said only recent axles have the right ratios. I bought this one strictly because of its cheaper cost. Not based on its age at all.

4. There is very little engineering involved in this swap. Also the fact that my new axle was hand delivered to my shop. I didn't have to go "anywhere"

5. There is no issue with my axle choice.

6. I did not say I was trying to "upgrade" my brakes. They are just brakes, and much cheaper ones at that. I kept it simple.

 

I have spent my time wisely, as well as my funds. The result will be a happier car on the highway, and cheaper brakes. I have an account with major parts suppliers. I can now just "click" brake shoes for a 1992 Ford Explorer, and they deliver them to my shop within the hour. Not happening with Lockheed brakes. 

 

I tried to be a nice guy and give this forum some notoriety, as I have nearly over half a million followers, and it is repaid by bashing, and fault finding, and focusing on flaws.

 

How disheartening. 

 

[Sniper]

Some of us have our quirks, I, for example, can be like a dog with a bone about things.  Loren is a big fan of the original brakes.  Maybe to the point of not being able to see another viewpoint on it.  I don't think Loren was trying to denigrate you rather so much as point out a difference in perspective, shall we say?

 

Me?  I am doing away with drums altogether.  I don't think any of the brakes that were available back then are worthy to be on my rides.  But I drive them as a daily driver and am in the process of teaching my 16 yo son how to drive with the 51.  I like my cars to stop, go and handle well, apparently I also like a challenge hence the 51, lol.

[keithb7]

Impossible to please everyone on the internet. You can’t. 
 

Do as you please to your car. I do. I even put an Ahooga horn in my ‘38 Plymouth. Lol. 
 

I am ok with stock brakes. I have been fortunate enough to pick up 3 spare 3rd members and a pair of spare axles. I have 3 different gear ratio options. 4 spare drums too!
 

Chin up. Don’t take it too serious. Thanks for the multiple plugs for this site. 
 

keith

Edited November 29, 2021 by keithb7

[greg g]

Caveat emptor when you need "new" rear brake drums. There are some out there that do away with the steel hub.  This cast all in one cast iron design would never find its way onto my vehicle.  Don't know who did the engineering and or testing, I would do the swap before contemplating going to that option.  Don't care if they were free for the asking.

[Loren]

1 hour ago, CarWizard said:

Loren, I am saddened at such a harsh post by you. Which is flawed.

1. I did not say the axle is weak. My concern was cost.

2. The axle isn't so expensive, as the brakes are. For the cost of a new drum "$300",  I got an entire axle. Which in turn will also help my highway rpms, Which in turn makes my future brake jobs for the rear, dirt cheap.

3. I never said only recent axles have the right ratios. I bought this one strictly because of its cheaper cost. Not based on its age at all.

4. There is very little engineering involved in this swap. Also the fact that my new axle was hand delivered to my shop. I didn't have to go "anywhere"

5. There is no issue with my axle choice.

6. I did not say I was trying to "upgrade" my brakes. They are just brakes, and much cheaper ones at that. I kept it simple.

 

I have spent my time wisely, as well as my funds. The result will be a happier car on the highway, and cheaper brakes. I have an account with major parts suppliers. I can now just "click" brake shoes for a 1992 Ford Explorer, and they deliver them to my shop within the hour. Not happening with Lockheed brakes. 

 

I tried to be a nice guy and give this forum some notoriety, as I have nearly over half a million followers, and it is repaid by bashing, and fault finding, and focusing on flaws.

 

How disheartening. 

 

 

I've been trying for a very long time to discourage folks from "re-engineering" their cars and I admit it sounds harsh in retrospect. You have my apologies.

I am admittedly stuck in the 1950s. I like the way they did things then all metal and no plastic.

You got both barrels because folks will say "well what about this?" So I covered all the "What abouts?"

What puts my teeth on edge is that someone who is not very experienced sees another guy doing a write up or a video and then they figure that is something they HAVE to do. I know it isn't and so do you.

My example of the Craigslist ad sequence is being repeated all over the country.

I personally GAVE away a set of rear brakes because I didn't figure I'd never need them.

Plymouth parts are CHEAP everywhere but eBay and some of the specialist suppliers.

I was a professional mechanic for more years than I will admit and I know it takes a professional more time to straighten out something that another guy has decided to re-engineer. That's why I mentioned the regrettable post on this forum. I'd rather not buy a car (even a nice one) if someone has re-engineered it.

Like you say you can "click" on 1992 Ford Explorer to get replacement shoes. However, the next guy who owns your car may not have any idea what rear brakes are on it now. When he "clicks" on 1954 Plymouth nothing is going to fit.

 

I may well have been harsh and I do apologize for that. 

Please do not be discouraged.

I will read your posts with great interest and that is why we post isn't it?

Like others have expressed, I'd like to know how this project turns out.

 

 

[bartenderfloyd]

I watch all your videos and get very excited when I see your Plymouth.  Thanks!

[plymouthcranbrook]

Car Wizard the Plymouth is your car to do with what you want. I personally am happy to see another old car that is being cared for and kept basically as built. Sometimes changes are inevitable. I have installed a brand new heater control valve on my 52 that was made for a 57 Chevy. Very similar to stock but instead of a rare expensive item I paid $80 for it and only had to make small changes to use it.  I have also replaced the original Ball and Ball carb with a progressive two barrel set up from Langdons.  The original carb was shot and good replacements not cheap or easy to find.  Car drivability is much improved.  I also hand made my own kick panels out of Masonite and painted them.  I could go on but you get the idea. I suspect your resources are better than mine by seeing your shop and vids but you still look for reasonable ways to accomplish what needs to be done.  This can be helpful for others who are(like me)on a modest budget for their hobby.  Most folks who see an old car going  down the road have no idea if they are looking at a stock car or a modified one. And  don’t care.  I continue to encourage innovation when needed to keep the old cars running while staying as true as possible to their original design.

[oldodge41]

5 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

Car Wizard the Plymouth is your car to do with what you want. I personally am happy to see another old car that is being cared for and kept basically as built. Sometimes changes are inevitable. I have installed a brand new heater control valve on my 52 that was made for a 57 Chevy. Very similar to stock but instead of a rare expensive item I paid $80 for it and only had to make small changes to use it.  I have also replaced the original Ball and Ball carb with a progressive two barrel set up from Langdons.  The original carb was shot and good replacements not cheap or easy to find.  Car drivability is much improved.  I also hand made my own kick panels out of Masonite and painted them.  I could go on but you get the idea. I suspect your resources are better than mine by seeing your shop and vids but you still look for reasonable ways to accomplish what needs to be done.  This can be helpful for others who are(like me)on a modest budget for their hobby.  Most folks who see an old car going  down the road have no idea if they are looking at a stock car or a modified one. And  don’t care.  I continue to encourage innovation when needed to keep the old cars running while staying as true as possible to their original design.

Very well said.