Need a gas replacement gas tank

[Rodney_Hamon]

Is there a company that can build an exact replica of my ‘36 1/2 ton dodge truck gas tank? I keep coming up with generic tanks with fittings in the wrong location. The story: I just spent a lot of time moving the original location of the tank just 8.5 in. back to accommodate the overdrive.  I had the tank cleaned and coated half dozen yrs ago by the last radiator shop in the ABQ area that would do it. Only problem was the pickup tube was dead 6:00 and hugging the bottom of the tank. I attempted to bend it for an elevation of 1/2 in or so but it crimped. So I temp used the drain plug opening for the line to go to the fuel pump.  I did try to re-use some steel gas lines and aggressively cleaned them out with many purgings of solvents, wire, and compressor air. I took a chance with that. I lost that bet. The fuel pump gas bowl filled promptly but gas just can’t get it into the carb. I pulled the top of the carb off and discovered rusty gas at the bottom of the bowl.  But it looks like it’s been that way for a while. I cleaned the carb out about 3 yrs ago and have been gravity feeding it and the truck has been firing up perfectly and humming like a sewing machine. So... for yrs I have read SAGE from thus forum to, “Don’t do it...replace it from the beginning.”    I just wanted to see...OK. I lost.   I need to build a new fuel system.  Sorry for the sadness/sorrow story.  

[Rodney_Hamon]

Tanks Inc, very nice, referred me to Rock Valley Antique, who also were helpful for an exact replica. $950 but at least it’s stainless steel. A to Z welding will do an aluminum version for $600 here in ABQ so I will keep searching. I ordered a new fuel pump from Kanter this am. Rockauto is out of supply. Napa, my go to, is a bit lame of late. Young and inexperienced of late. They don’t carry steel fuel lines of any length anymore. After calling around, Autozone and O’reillys said they have odds and ends in the back and come sort through them. I just need two 3’ pieces with fittings on the end. 1/4”.  I’m still amazed at the upper dried out carb gasket that cracked in 4-5 pieces and looked like it came from Mercury.  Can gravity fed **** gas for 3 years do that? ...and I always added Stabil.  Anyway, this temp set up was only meant to see how the old fuel pump performed. Once I knew it worked I was going to switch to the correct line and see if the draft tube worked.  Then I would have tackled dirty situations but damn...it all talked to me at once. I will drain the gas tank and filter through a brass screen to see what might be in the tank. Damn. And that tank was in such good shape I thought 

[Los_Control]

To be honest, the $600 for the local guy to build one does not sound bad.

With the price of materials nowadays do to inflation. I saw a month ago a sheet of steel to build a floor pan for a car was over $100.

Heck, osb sheathing for a roof should be $8 and currently over $40 a sheet.

I can imagine a sheet of aluminum maybe $150? Then add the rest of the parts, filler neck, tig wire, gas ... I bet they have every bit of $250 or more for material.

So $350 for labor and wear & tear on the tools does not seem to bad. For a custom made to fit gas tank.

 

About 10 years ago when I lived in Albuquerque, A friend was living in a motor home down south on the lake.

He moved back to town and on the way he lost his gas tank from being parked and rusty.

He got  into a small town with a machine shop, they built him a new aluminum tank. They also removed the old tank, installed new, replaced fuel filter etc ... got him going again. They charged $1100 for the new tank installed.

 

So if you took away the labor to R&R the tank, probably about $600 to build it 10-12 years ago.

And if you go back next week, the price may go up as the cost of material keeps going up.. One way to look at it and justify the cost.

 

 

[Rodney_Hamon]

Thanks for the reply Los Control. I needed somebody to at least say that the money was not too off base.  Now I’m in shock trying to track down steel fuel line.  I’m going to contact Summit and Dorman, among others to get a couple small lengths of 1/4” and 5/16”. 

[Los_Control]

2 minutes ago, Rodney_Hamon said:

Now I’m in shock trying to track down steel fuel line.

I hear ya, pretty difficult here also .... though between 2 stores I am able to get what I need for my truck.

I really doubt they will restock after I buy out what they have.

 

Seems all the kool kids are going with nickel/copper lines today.

Good for fuel or brakes, you bend it by hand ... last longer then steel, flare the ends the same way as your steel lines ... just is the way of the future.

I am 1/2 way done with new lines for my brakes ... front 1/2 is finished, still need to do rear and then connect to the master cylinder.

I also need complete line for fuel. I have the steel lines to finish 90% of everything.

Thinking I may toss all my new work in the trash and start over with the nicopp lines.  Remember you still need to order the individual sizes to replace your existing lines.

I need 3 different sizes myself. Cost a little more, but so easy to bend by hand to the shape you need, then will last many times longer then steel.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Copper-Brake-Line-Tubing/dp/B00A02C9H0

 

[kencombs]

Good call on the CuNi line LOS!   His local Napa shoud have in stock.  Easy to cut, flare (even do

uble flare),bend and doesn't rust, ever.

[ggdad1951]

CuNi is GREAT!  Just don't use it with diesel!

[Rodney_Hamon]

A super interesting discussion for me to hear and digest.  I’m liking this new NiCo line you guys discuss here. Yesterday I had an awakening from every parts store I frequent. Napa said go Amazon. Auto zone and o Reilly thought steel lines were brake lines. Pep Boys eliminated their back stock room with the “takeover” from Advance. The only fun shop was “Yearwoods Speed Shop” that specializes in... well...fast cars. They had a display bd of the latest in fuel supply lines. Hi Tech and very braided. Sexy. Looked good next to the new crate V-8’s all dressed up on the floor on their engine stands. If you ever were/are in that other life of loving fast cars...it was cool. They could only offer me stainless in 3/8.  So...today I contacted Action Hydraulic Hose and they said they could build me custom fuel lines if I bring in the old ones to match.  Hoooray!  Affordable.  My dozen yrs of construction experience driving bobcat and forklift allowed me to think of that call. Happy ending. 

[bkahler]

On 8/4/2021 at 2:05 PM, ggdad1951 said:

CuNi is GREAT!  Just don't use it with diesel!

 

Could you elaborate on that statement?

[ggdad1951]

17 hours ago, bkahler said:

 

Could you elaborate on that statement?

 

"Yellow" metals (brass, bronze, copper) and Zinc will actually get "eaten" by diesel on the molecular level and will plate out on fuel components like injectors and such affecting system performance. Hence at work I always have to watch out for purchasing's attempts to replace stainless parts for cheaper metals and coatings.

[bkahler]

1 minute ago, ggdad1951 said:

 

"Yellow" metals (brass, bronze, copper) and Zinc will actually get "eaten" by diesel on the molecular level and will plate out on fuel components like injectors and such affecting system performance. Hence at work I always have to watch out for purchasing's attempts to replace stainless parts for cheaper metals and coatings.

 

Interesting.  It makes sense and since I own a diesel truck it's good to know.

 

Thanks!

 

[Rodney_Hamon]

Agreed. I did not know and I have a small bobcat with a Kubota Diesel engine in it. Today I dropped off my old fuel lines to the hydraulic hose shop and asked that question. I should get an answer tomorrow from the boss when I pick up the new replacements.  His 2 cents will hopefully add to this subject.  

[ggdad1951]

Cummins has ESW's around this to not allow it on product as a general rule.  Lots of people WILL do it, and they may or may not have an issue over time.

 

 

[squirebill]

Things you read that make you scratch your head.  Read this thread with interest concerning the fuel tank.  Then into Cu Ni tubing and then using diesel fuel in that tubing.  I don't have a diesel powered vehicle.  I do have an oil fired hot water home heating system.  This boiler runs on No. 2 fuel oil.  As far as I know, No. 2 fuel may not be exactly the same as pump diesel fuel but it is darn close.  In fact, they put a red die in the No.2 fuel to differentiate it from diesel fuel since no road taxes are applied to No.2 fuel.  If someone was to use No 2 red die fuel in their diesel vehicle (to avoid paying the road taxes) the red fuel would make them liable for fines.  So, my home was built in 1957 and I suppose the 1/2 inch copper tubing that ran from the 1000 gallon underground storage tank , under the lawn and into the house to the boiler was original to the house.  So this copper line has been used for over 60 years with something very close to diesel fuel in it.  Now I read this should never be done.  As I said "Things you read that make you scratch your head".  Regards

[Los_Control]

Do not think the 2 are the same. You have copper line that by nature is rigid and need a tubing bender to shape it.

 

We were talking about nickle/copper lines that is fairly soft and can bend by hand without a tool.

Really two different products.

 

While I have no opinion about using diesel with either lines. Just thinking not fair to compare one to the other or apples to oranges.

[Rodney_Hamon]

It was busy at the hydraulic shop and the original guy helping wasn’t there. I decided to not bring up the diesel/soft metal question. I’ll call next week. But I trust this forum and it’s wisdom. Bent the new lines and dry run fitted into place to make sure the fit was proper. New and improved everything. Even a drain pipcock. The shop made a fancy brazed end with fitting for the flex fuel line to connect to. Fancy. The shop even made a comment that the one 5/16 small bend piece with the fitting looked like it came from autozone as it did. What observations on their part.  New question. Top of my gas cap needs a new gasket. Does anyone think I could find something to work?   For now I will use a spare gas cap from the P-23 parts car.  

[squirebill]

Correct, we were talking about CuNi tubing. I am familiar with it, I used it for the brake lines on my '49 Suburban.  However ggdad1951 clearly advises of a problem using diesel fuel with copper tubing and/or  tubing of metal alloys containing it.   That combination can affect both the tubing and the fuel.  What has me scratching my head is I have experience with copper tubing used with No.2 fuel oil and didn't experience any problem in over 60 years.  Just lucky I guess.  Maybe No.2 fuel oil is in fact very different than diesel fuel. My internet search on that subject says they are close to being the same.

[Rodney_Hamon]

Fun side subject. In 1980 I started driving bobcat for a construction/landscaping company. Started out with a 731 bobcat with the deustche (spelling? sounds like doysh) diesel. Then the 743 came out with the kubota diesel. I was told in a pinch I could use #2 kerosene in lieu of diesel if I couldn’t find it fast. Hydraulic fluid could be substituted for 30wt oil and we did. Worked just fine. I drove many diff size bobcats and used a lot of attachments. Interesting how interchangeable stuff was/is...but that was then and this is now 

[Rodney_Hamon]

Back to the gas tank as I got pleasantly distracted by diesel and soft tubing.  I drained the tank methodically of almost 4 gallons of gas. It was not that dirty. In fact, the small black particles looked exactly like the dissolving/grinded up pieces from the gas cap gasket.  I drained pint after pint through coffee filters and a funnel into a white container. The dirt showed up first draining but when I got to the bottom of the tank it was pretty darn clean. I decided that spending a 1K chunk of money for a new tank, sending unit, filler tube and cap, fittings, etc could wait. I’m taking a good chance and putting it all back together clean and see what happens. I will change out the filter frequently and search for a clear filter at that for easier inspection.  

[JBNeal]

I won't bore y'all with the chemical breakdown, but no.2 diesel and no.2 fuel oil are not the same, with diesel being more refined and regulated for emissions purposes.  Not sure why diesel has been brought up as OP is not using it for his application, but what the hey, don't put orange juice in stainless steel beverage containers either

 

As for the gas cap gasket, I have bought generic gas caps that have the same size gasket and swapped gaskets...might not be cheapest way to go but I offset the monetary cost by spending very little time on the subject. 

[48Dodger]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:56 PM, Los_Control said:

Seems all the kool kids are going with nickel/copper lines today.

So......Los mentioned a different type of line for fuel usage.

 

On 8/4/2021 at 11:05 AM, ggdad1951 said:

CuNi is GREAT!  Just don't use it with diesel!

Then a warning was issued about it not being for all fuels........

 

On 8/9/2021 at 10:36 AM, bkahler said:

Could you elaborate on that statement?

Then...someone mentioned he would like further explanation.....

 

On 8/3/2021 at 5:30 PM, Rodney_Hamon said:

Now I’m in shock trying to track down steel fuel line.

The original poster started the whole deal with his statement about steel fuel lines......

 

 

That's how I read it anyway. 

 

48D 

[ggdad1951]

4 hours ago, 48Dodger said:

So......Los mentioned a different type of line for fuel usage.

 

Then a warning was issued about it not being for all fuels........

 

Then...someone mentioned he would like further explanation.....

 

The original poster started the whole deal with his statement about steel fuel lines......

 

 

That's how I read it anyway. 

 

48D 

 

you can read? ?

[Los_Control]

Is good that @Rodney_Hamon found a good solution to their problem.

I have 2 hydraulic hose shops in my town, only for large equipment, will not mess with brake or fuel lines.

I am having issues finding steel lines myself. I have 2 parts store local to me.  (who also make the hydraulic lines)

One can order the steel lines for me, but 5/16" is not even a option they can not get it. They are a parts+ franchise.

The other is a carquest franchise, seems I have bought all the 5/16" they have and they are not ordering any more steel lines, just selling off what they have.

 

I still need to purchase 1 last piece to go from the T across to the RR brake and they do not have that size.

I made a Boo Boo making the transition piece from master cyl to the T for front/rear lines. First attempt at making it and over taxed my tubing bender ability.

While it would probably work, I think it sucks and want another shot at it.

I have just enough 5/16" set aside for my fuel line. If I borrow from it will have to order more .... Getting steel line today is a pia for me. And it seems I am not alone.

 

Why I stated in a earlier post I am finished with the front brake lines, very pleased with them. Going to leave them alone.

From the master cylinder to the rear brakes & fuel line. Thinking will just start fresh with nicop to finish it all. This is a driver not concourse.

Think I will save all my steel lines for a future welding project ... make stick men   ?

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 hours ago, Los_Control said:

 

 

Think I will save all my steel lines for a future welding project ... make stick men   ?

  

 

that would be some deformed stick men.....you may be in for a lawsuit.....

[Rodney_Hamon]

I forgot one piece to the fuel pump. It is soaking in citric acid until tomorrow. Then I will clean with solvent/gas. Then the fuel circuit is complete. I took the carb apart today and cleaned it. Found a new gasket for the upper body. When installing the Kanter universal fuel pump, instructions say I should have an insulator. Huh? I’ve never seen one. Am I missing something?    Good idea about sacrificing a new cap to get the gasket.  On the steel line subject, the guys told me at Action Hydraulic Hose that their steel line is a little more heavy duty than the lines from the 70’s. Mine date from that period. It was tougher to bend and I had to be patient with pulling pieces around V fan pulley in the vise. Tighter bends were pushed against a 2” pipe. I can sympathize with you Los Control.  Tough stuff.  But at least it wasn’t like the S. steel.  Last of all my memories can be fuzzy.  I started with a 723 bobcat with that German Diesel engine.  Then the 731 had the kubota diesel.  And maybe I could be wrong about the #2 fuel. Now I can’t remember what was said in 1980.  Ha. It cost $97 for those lines, both 1/4 and 5/16. Bends and brazed fancy end and fittings. Worth it!