Where do I start?

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

Went through and pulled out the carpet, checked the hoses they seemed alright, some of the wiring has definitely been updated but some of it has not. Honestly the engine bay looks a lot better than I expected it to, but there is this wire on what I believe is a solenoid of some sort? On the driver's side of the firewall and it's definitely broken off. Any idea what it goes to? There also appears to be a smaller wire loose from the generator, not sure where it goes to. Didn't take a picture of it wasn't thinking at that time to do so. Also, to clarify, I am not pointing to the long wire on the left, that's attached to something inside the car, but to the stub of a wire on the right.

 

What's the cost difference in copper to steel lines? Is it worth trying disc's on the rear as well? I saw someone posted there's a conversion kit for the front, is there a reason people ignore the rear? Aside from the fact that most of the stopping power comes from the front?

 

I personally think disc brakes on the rear is overkill,especially for a car that is mostly going to be pampered and only driven on nice days,but they sure don't hurt anything other than originality and your bank accout.

 

As for the cost of steel versus copper/nickel brake lines,it has been a LONG time since I priced steel ones,but IIRC,I paid less than 40 bucks for enough copper/steel brake lines to do a whole car. The price may have gone up some since then,but all you have to do is go online to a auto parts retailer near you and ask. This is not high-tech or cutting edge stuff. Pretty much every manufacturer uses it these days.

[allbizz49]

Make yourself a list of things to do to your car. First, get it running. Once you know the engine is sound, get the brakes working. This might take anything from replacing/rebuilding every brake component to just some fresh fluid. Then make sure your steering is in good order. After you get these things working, then you can get to the nitty gritty of making it safe and roadworthy. Disc brake swaps and all of that shouldn't be a consideration yet. Also, the brake line material is nicopp, not copper. Get it running first! 

Edited June 7, 2021 by allbizz49

[Veemoney]

8 hours ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

I am not pointing to the long wire on the left, that's attached to something inside the car, but to the stub of a wire on the right.

That looks like a relay maybe for a horn would be my guess.

Also nice looking car that from the first picture appears to be well cared for. at some point.

I'm in the camp of starting first before pullling things apart. All the checks that are mentioned will need to be done but for me in your position I would proceed as follows:

 

1)First thing I would do is pull spark plugs and try to turn it by hand to make sure it is free. If it spins check your fluids to make sure you have some in there and note the condition of each(clean/dirty). It was sitting awhile so these will need to be checked after running again.

 

2)Pull the coil wire so you have no spark during this check. Pull the gas line and use a catch can/jar so you can capture some of the gas from the tank in the jar. Put in a battery (verify polarity) and have someone turn it over with you watching the catch jar and engine compartment just enough to see what condition the fuel/contamination and pump is in. See if you notice anything else and to tell them when you get gas to stop. 

 

3) If it spins and the gas is not full of crap make sure you have a good gas filter in place and hook it back up. clean up any gas spills, Install the coil wire and check for spark using one of the plugs. If you have spark install plugs and go for the start. run it and let it warm up while checking for leaks, overheating, sparks off the plug wires or other oddities. 

 

As you move through these steps the plan may change based on the outcome of each step. 

[Frank Elder]

Nailhead six? Never heard that one before.

[knuckleharley]

4 hours ago, Frank Elder said:

Nailhead six? Never heard that one before.

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one.

 

When you say "nailhead" in reference to engines,MY mind automatically hears the word "Buick".

[Plymouthy Adams]

I am never amazed at the carry over of term designated for one car to another.....nor for that matter the descriptors used to define a style car/cabin so out of whack it is laughable...

[harmony]

16 hours ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

Went through and pulled out the carpet, checked the hoses they seemed alright, some of the wiring has definitely been updated but some of it has not. Honestly the engine bay looks a lot better than I expected it to, but there is this wire on what I believe is a solenoid of some sort? On the driver's side of the firewall and it's definitely broken off. Any idea what it goes to? There also appears to be a smaller wire loose from the generator, not sure where it goes to. Didn't take a picture of it wasn't thinking at that time to do so. Also, to clarify, I am not pointing to the long wire on the left, that's attached to something inside the car, but to the stub of a wire on the right.

 

What's the cost difference in copper to steel lines? Is it worth trying disc's on the rear as well? I saw someone posted there's a conversion kit for the front, is there a reason people ignore the rear? Aside from the fact that most of the stopping power comes from the front?

 

It looks like it's a Transmission relay.  Do you have a Fluid Drive Transmission?  The cylinder on the far side that's sticking up is a fuse.  But the terminals are arranged differently than on my 48 Chrysler so I don't want to speculate on where the wires are going to.  If you get a small SS wire brush (toothbrush size)  and clean up the terminal ends once you remove the wires and screws, there should be letters stamped on the ends.  I can see some lettering stamped on the end of it too that might help.

[chrysler1941]

At a rally show years ago some one  looked at my other non MoPar V8 Flathead  and yelled, "wow a Hemi"

[Plymouthy Adams]

14 minutes ago, chrysler1941 said:

At a rally show years ago some one  looked at my other non MoPar V8 Flathead  and yelled, "wow a Hemi"

hopefully he was not saying......hemi    as in half done......ok my joke  is in for the day....move along Betty, nothing to see here.

[Purple Moo Cow]

8 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one.

 

When you say "nailhead" in reference to engines,MY mind automatically hears the word "Buick".

@Frank Elder all I know is I was researching old cars to buy and someone somewhere referred to the old flat six as a nail head. Who am I to know whats correct terminology dependent on makes for cars that existed before my dad was even born? Im only 30, I'm here to learn from you fellas. Im hoping this can be something I pass down to my kids. Gotta learn somehow. Is that a term only used for buick engines? Are the engine designs different enough that it can't carry over? 

 

@harmony it is indeed a fluid drive transmission, I'll have to pick up a little SS brush when I'm buying the magical mystery oil all you guys have been keeping in business haha

Edited June 7, 2021 by Purple Moo Cow

[knuckleharley]

55 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

@Frank Elder all I know is I was researching old cars to buy and someone somewhere referred to the old flat six as a nail head. Who am I to know whats correct terminology dependent on makes for cars that existed before my dad was even born? Im only 30, I'm here to learn from you fellas. Im hoping this can be something I pass down to my kids. Gotta learn somehow. Is that a term only used for buick engines? Are the engine designs different enough that it can't carry over? 

 

@harmony it is indeed a fluid drive transmission, I'll have to pick up a little SS brush when I'm buying the magical mystery oil all you guys have been keeping in business haha

It is a term only applied SPECIFICALLY to Buick V-8 engines built between 1953 and sometime in the mid-60's. They were called "nail heads" because the valves were so tiny in proportion to the bores. Made stupid torque and were as reliable as a rock,though.

[Purple Moo Cow]

@knuckleharley thanks for the information, I will make sure I don't use it again then aha. These old inline sixes are fairly reliable too though aren't they?

[Los_Control]

Just now, Purple Moo Cow said:

These old inline sixes are fairly reliable too though aren't they?

They were so reliable, they changed the starter location in 1935, then later changed the water outlet on the head, in the 50's they came out with a 230 ci version.

The 218 ci/230 was so dependable they continued to make it and sell in other Countries or industrial equipment into the 1970's.

 

High rpm will kill them, the oiling system is maxed out at 3600 rpm ... keep the rpm down and they will run forever or a long time ... whichever comes first.

[harmony]

4 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

@knuckleharley thanks for the information, I will make sure I don't use it again then aha. These old inline sixes are fairly reliable too though aren't they?

Super reliable as long as you don't neglect them and look after them.  If you're curious about the size, measure the head from front to back.  If it measures 25 inches then it's the 251.  But it may be a 230 if it measures about 23 inches.  

[harmony]

3 hours ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

@Frank Elder all I know is I was researching old cars to buy and someone somewhere referred to the old flat six as a nail head. Who am I to know whats correct terminology dependent on makes for cars that existed before my dad was even born? Im only 30, I'm here to learn from you fellas. Im hoping this can be something I pass down to my kids. Gotta learn somehow. Is that a term only used for buick engines? Are the engine designs different enough that it can't carry over? 

 

@harmony it is indeed a fluid drive transmission, I'll have to pick up a little SS brush when I'm buying the magical mystery oil all you guys have been keeping in business haha

That SS brush will come in handy for lots of things but a file or sandpaper will also clean up those terminals on that relay. Having said that, the best thing I've found for cleaning wire ends and terminals that they connect to, is one of those tiny wire wheels on a Dremel. I'd check and clean all of them on the car. 

If you don't want to start rewiring everything under the hood, that liquid rubber stuff will do for now.  That old cloth coated wiring gets brittle over time and you'll probably find a lot of bare spots.

[harmony]

Since your new ride is a Fluid Drive, you're in for a real education!    Not everyone has the patience for them.  Because when they act up, there are sooooooo many variable that can cause issues.  Including your carb and if it's not functioning perfectly, it will effect how the transmission shifts. 

I suggest you go to https://forums.aaca.org/  Those guys at AACA ( Antique Automobile Club of America) are really knowledgeable and there are quite a few threads from a few years back on that forum, specifically about troubleshooting the fluid drive. 

[Purple Moo Cow]

5 minutes ago, harmony said:

Since your new ride is a Fluid Drive, you're in for a real education!    Not everyone has the patience for them.  Because when they act up, there are sooooooo many variable that can cause issues.  Including your carb and if it's not functioning perfectly, it will effect how the transmission shifts. 

I suggest you go to https://forums.aaca.org/  Those guys at AACA ( Antique Automobile Club of America) are really knowledgeable and there are quite a few threads from a few years back on that forum, specifically about troubleshooting the fluid drive. 

I read a thing somewhere on the internet, so I know it must be true, that said the fluid drive required zero maintenance and would just run, problem free, indefinitely. Guess that's not so! As it is, I'm sure I'll have an odd enough time adjusting to driving it when that day comes. 

[knuckleharley]

56 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

@knuckleharley thanks for the information, I will make sure I don't use it again then aha. These old inline sixes are fairly reliable too though aren't they?

The old flat 6's are insanely reliable as long as you don't run them hot or low on oil.

[harmony]

5 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

I read a thing somewhere on the internet, so I know it must be true, that said the fluid drive required zero maintenance and would just run, problem free, indefinitely. Guess that's not so! As it is, I'm sure I'll have an odd enough time adjusting to driving it when that day comes. 

Well the fluid drive itself as in the housing full of oil is pretty fool proof.  Rarely do you hear of anyone having to add fluid to it, or anything going wrong with it.  But there are many components involved in the function of the shifting procedure.  Mechanically, electrically, and hydraulically.  Thankfully there is lots of information on how to track down a problem as well as various tests that can be performed on all the components to narrow down any malfunction.  You can download pdf files from the Master Tech series on the fluid drive that is really helpful to have it right beside you as you're performing tests. 

[harmony]

You might also consider joining your local chapter of the Chrysler car club.  That could lead to some close by contacts of a few old farts that have years of experience and knowledge driving the Fluid Drive.

[harmony]

I LOVE my fluid drive.  It's so unique and I'm always amazed at how the Chrysler engineers developed it with all it's complexities way back then.  Once you get the old girl going down the road.  Just remember, you don't want to be in a hurry. She won't have anything to do with that.  haha!  Slow and steady and try to get used to seeing the grill of the car behind you up close in your mirror.   

Having said that, my 251 c.i. cruises at 65 mph and there is tons of gas pedal left and the rpm's are just humming comfortably. Plus it really doesn't take that long to get up to speed, once your in 4th. Many people will say they start out in 3rd.  But I find it smooth and a good transition to start in first and then shift right to high range.  Unless I'm in town going block to block, stop sign to stop sign.  Then I usually just use low range, first and second. Basically just to blow off the cobwebs that might form on second gear.  But that's about the only time I use second.

[Purple Moo Cow]

@harmony I was under the impression you only have 2 gears, high and low? You shift into high, which allows you to start in low until like 20 mph and then let off, it shifts, and step back on and you're in high with nothing else to do but drive normal. You're making it sound a wee bit different. This car is turning out to the quite the educational journey for me...haven't even started on re-doinf the entire interior either...

[harmony]

You'll put the car in neutral to start it.  If you don't put it on neutral it will lunge forward.  Ask me how I discovered that.   So then just like a standard you depress the clutch and move the shift lever up and away.  At this point if everything is working perfectly.  You can put your foot on the brake and let out the clutch. It will just sit there. Take your foot off the clutch and give it a bit of gas and away you go.  If you want to go through all the gears, take the revs up to what would sound like a good time to shift.  Then let off the gas.  In about a half second you'll hear a clunk, then give it a bit of gas and now you're in low range second gear.  Once again take the revs up to where it sounds like it needs to shift.  This time you depress the clutch, pull the shift lever down, and let out the clutch.  Now you're in 3rd gear high range.  Take it up to where you think it needs to shift and let off the gas.  Once again you will hear the clunk and now you're in 4th.  

If everything is working perfectly, when you slow down, and your foot is off the gas, you will hear another clunk and now you're in 3 rd high range.  As  you slow down more and want to go into second, you now shift like it was a manual trans.  Foot on the clutch and lift the shift lever up.  As you crawl to a stop, just before the wheels stop rolling, you'll hear another clunk and now you're in first low range. 

You can also manually downshift by pushing the gas pedal to the floor if you are in 4th high range and feel you should be in third, like encountering a sudden steep grade. Like wise if you're in 2nd low range and want to get back into first. But I doubt you'd ever need to do that.  They call low range, stump pulling gears. So second is plenty low enough to climb almost straight up.    I had issues with the manual downshifting in my car and I just posted my solution here a couple days ago. 

You're going to have tons of fun learning all this stuff.  

[joecoozie]

 

22 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

@harmony I was under the impression you only have 2 gears, high and low? You shift into high, which allows you to start in low until like 20 mph and then let off, it shifts, and step back on and you're in high with nothing else to do but drive normal. You're making it sound a wee bit different. This car is turning out to the quite the educational journey for me...haven't even started on re-doinf the entire interior either...

https://www.allpar.com/threads/the-chrysler-plymouth-dodge-desoto-fluid-drive.229898/

Check this out

[harmony]

4 minutes ago, joecoozie said:

 

https://www.allpar.com/threads/the-chrysler-plymouth-dodge-desoto-fluid-drive.229898/

Check this out

I have that bookmarked in my collection of references, I just couldn't find it right away, but yes great information on the fluid drive.