cable repair Choke & Throttle Cables

[Eneto-55]

I’m a bit reluctant to start a new thread about this, because I get the feeling that maybe some folks are ignoring my comments, because it probably seems like I just flint around from one project to another, and don’t actually finish any of them.  Probably true.  Being a one man show in a small business, work follows me home in the evenings, and on the week ends, so for now I’m just trying to evaluate this all, and get an idea of what all is missing (after having stored the car for nearly 40 years, dismantled), what I’ll have to purchase yet, and what I can fix myself.  I did a good deal of searching on the forum, and what discussions I did find were pretty old, and I know some don't like to see old threads yanked back to life.

 

Anyway, so engine control cables – throttle and choke.  My choke cable was broken off at the end of the outer sheath, so wondering if it would still be long enough if I shortened it 3 or 4 inches, or what ever is necessary at the engine end.  I don’t have my dash installed, so I cannot measure any of this with any accuracy.  The choke cable is 44” long.  Would it reach if I cut 3 ½ or 4 inches off of the outer cable sheath?  Or, has anyone here ever managed to replace the wire part, reusing the knob and the stem.  (The wire is crimped into the end – looks like it would be pretty difficult to get the old one out, let along make a new one hold. (I wasn’t concerned about such details when I bought the car, because way back then I was just intending to build a daily driver, and would have just bought something made for a tractor, etc.)  One thread I looked at showed how someone had extended a cable by fastening the ends together, with the cable sheaths clamped down on a straight brace.  So I may work out something like that if I have to.

 

By comparison, the throttle cable sheath is only 32” long, with about 3 ½” of the wire out beyond that.  (All of these measurements are with the knob pushed in, measured from the ring that fits against the dash bezel.)  I bought my car as a basket case (like I said, 40 years ago), so I never saw it with the engine installed and everything connected.  My Dad had a 47 Plymouth for awhile, but I was way too young then to have any memories of such details.
 

[Merle Coggins]

Send a message to Mark, a.k.a. ggdad1951. He has rebuilt some throttle and choke cables with new inner wire. 

[sidevalvepete]

Can't help you with your queries about shortened length of cable but there is a good way to make them like new. Vintage American Parts in Farmingdale,  New York trades as moparpro on ebay sells new correct style cables that have threaded ends to take your original knobs, choke or throttle. Replaced my broken originals and they fit perfectly

[Tooljunkie]

11 hours ago, sidevalvepete said:

Can't help you with your queries about shortened length of cable but there is a good way to make them like new. Vintage American Parts in Farmingdale,  New York trades as moparpro on ebay sells new correct style cables that have threaded ends to take your original knobs, choke or throttle. Replaced my broken originals and they fit perfectly

I hate to break it to you, but i think you put the steering column back in the wrong side...

all nice and shiny, i like it. 

[Eneto-55]

Thank you all for your responses and ideas.  I looked at Michael Warsaw's site, and I see the cables.  But as far as I can tell, my knobs are molded onto the cable, and could not be removed w/o destroying them.

 

I was hoping Mark would see this & post a link to his thread on cable repair that you (Merle) mentioned.  (I had done a search before I started this thread, but did not find that, although it seems to me that I recall having seen it at some point in the past.  I am working through a different search that either brings up only a few 'hits' or over 150 pages.  That's the one I've been working through, over a period of days already, since I do not get much time to be on here.)  I have a couple of ideas of how to fix the broken cable if it will not be long enough, but so far everything I've thought of involves committing myself  to destroy what I have if the idea doesn't work.  Would be best to have a completely worthless one (like if the knob was broken off) to experiment with first. 

[Tooljunkie]

If the knobs are a chrome housing with a hard plastic insert, they thread off the steel stem. Trick is the center stays stationary while the metal outer part of knob rotates to thread off. A little back and forth coaxing and it should come undone. The ones in my old trucks came apart easy, and time hasnt been nice to them. 

[sidevalvepete]

A few pics of how it was done. The car was like yours, dismantled and stored for years. Also pretty much worn out with numerous bits missing or replaced with fill ins from other donor cars. I had the Throttle knob and cable - with kinks in it. Choke knob and cable was from some other world not mopar. Found a pair of throttle and choke knobs and cables on ebay, knobs not too bad but cables kinked and one a bit short. Then the remanufactured cables. Used the worst looking knob as a practice job. Cables seemed crimped on very securely. By holding extruding section tight in a vice,  it was possible to position a wrench under the head and belt the wrench hard with a hammer.....Knobs came off. Adapted and pressed some soft aluminum nuts into the base of the knobs, threads to match the new cables - job done. Works well.

[Eneto-55]

Thanks TJ & Pete.  My knobs are made completely of that old type of plastic, no metal parts like those shown here.  From all I can see, the plastic knob was molded onto the cable stem.  I suspect that if I try to force it off, it will shatter, because it already has lots of hairline cracks.  Maybe my cables are not original, as the car has over 91,000 miles on it, and was driven into the mid to late 70's.  But all of the dash knobs match, throttle, choke & heater, so I kinda' doubt they were ever all replaced. 

 

This is a 46 model, from Evansville.  I also have a 49 (1st series, parts car) from Detroit, but it is still back home in Oklahoma (over 1000 miles from me here in Ohio).  I don't remember if these cables were still in the car, or not (it was out of a salvage).  Both are the Special DeLuxe.  I will ask my brother to take a look in the 49.  (It's at his place, since when we hauled the 46 here to Ohio we could only put one car on the trailer.)  It is interesting to see things identified that were either changed over the 4 + years of production, or varied from one plant to the next, so if it's that, I'd like to know. 

[JBNeal]

Maybe it would be easier to make a mold of your existing knobs then make new knobs with epoxy mix...that old bakelite is threaded on that cable end but you're right, if it's got visible cracks then it's about to crumble...if ya cut the knob off the cable end, that might preserve the knob as a memento but I don't know of a way to reuse that knob without damaging it...

 

additional information - Merle's referenced cable rebuild 

[Young Ed]

1 hour ago, Eneto-55 said:

Thanks TJ & Pete.  My knobs are made completely of that old type of plastic, no metal parts like those shown here.  From all I can see, the plastic knob was molded onto the cable stem.  I suspect that if I try to force it off, it will shatter, because it already has lots of hairline cracks.  Maybe my cables are not original, as the car has over 91,000 miles on it, and was driven into the mid to late 70's.  But all of the dash knobs match, throttle, choke & heater, so I kinda' doubt they were ever all replaced. 

 

This is a 46 model, from Evansville.  I also have a 49 (1st series, parts car) from Detroit, but it is still back home in Oklahoma (over 1000 miles from me here in Ohio).  I don't remember if these cables were still in the car, or not (it was out of a salvage).  Both are the Special DeLuxe.  I will ask my brother to take a look in the 49.  (It's at his place, since when we hauled the 46 here to Ohio we could only put one car on the trailer.)  It is interesting to see things identified that were either changed over the 4 + years of production, or varied from one plant to the next, so if it's that, I'd like to know. 

I believe you are right and the p15 knobs are solid plastic moulded right to the cables. 

[Eneto-55]

JB, Thanks for the link to Mark's thread on this.  Maybe it didn't turn up in my search because I was concentrating on the cars, and may have pasted over it if I saw that it was on the truck forum.  

 

The cable lengths someone mentioned in that thread are much shorter than mine, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pickup dash isn't that much closer to the engine, so to speak.

 

Ed, it does certainly look that way to me (that the plastic knob is molded onto the cable end), because the groove in the solid part of the cable end appears to go right into the plastic.  

 

As to a repair for these, I was wondering if a person could tap the end of that cable stem, and then weld the cable wire to a screw, then turn that in.  It wouldn't be able to turn back out because of the guide groove on the cable wire stem, and because the 'business end' of the cable wire is clamped down as well.  But that would be a pretty small diameter screw to try to weld to the cable wire, probably way to small to be able to get a hole through it, in order to be able to thread the cable wire through.

 

I'll also have to look more at the molding process.  Seen some about it in the past, but have never tried it.  Or, just not be so picky about the knobs looking original, and use something from a tractor supply place.  (But I'm too picky for that, except as a last resort...)

[Young Ed]

Did some digging. Here is a choke cable from the backside. As you can see it looks like 1 piece. Then an old dash with the cable still installed but no plastic. 

 

 

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, Young Ed said:

Did some digging. Here is ... an old dash with the cable still installed but no plastic. 

 

 

 

Wow, Someone really went after that bezel with a pliers.  Must be (have been) frozen solid.  But unless a closer inspection reveals that that steel piece would come off of the stem, attempting to remove the knob would only destroy it.  

Thanks for looking for these pictures - all helpful info that would otherwise only be learned by destroying a knob.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Eneto-55

[Young Ed]

22 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

Wow, Someone really went after that bezel with a pliers.  Must be (have been) frozen solid.  But unless a closer inspection reveals that that steel piece would come off of the stem, attempting to remove the knob would only destroy it.  

Thanks for looking for these pictures - all helpful info that would otherwise only be learned by destroying a knob.

You got my curiosity up as the only 2 ugly knobs in my car are choke and throttle! So I dug into some parts and took a few pictures. As for that dash apparently someone didn't know the bezel doesn't unscrew and you need to remove the nut on the backside!

[desoto1939]

i have the same tube of choke or throttle cable with the molded plastic button.  I pulled the button with the old broken cable out of the wire metal casing.  You will then see how the  metal tube can be opened very carefully to expose the inner part of the pull knob tube.  I then took a new choke cable that I purcahsed at a local auto store cut the end off and then inserted it into the opening or slot inthe tube and then peened it over and made sure it was roundish and then put the unit back together.

 

You will have to study your unit but it can be done.

I did this on my 39 Desoto

Rich Hartung

[Eneto-55]

6 hours ago, desoto1939 said:

i have the same tube of choke or throttle cable with the molded plastic button.  I pulled the button with the old broken cable out of the wire metal casing.  You will then see how the  metal tube can be opened very carefully to expose the inner part of the pull knob tube.  I then took a new choke cable that I purcahsed at a local auto store cut the end off and then inserted it into the opening or slot inthe tube and then peened it over and made sure it was roundish and then put the unit back together.

 

You will have to study your unit but it can be done.

I did this on my 39 Desoto

Rich Hartung

I hadn't noticed that.  I thought I looked it over well, but my eyesight is not very good, so I'll need to look at it with a magnifying glass.  (I understand that you are referring to the cable wire, the inside part, not the 'casing.  I did see the seam in the outer part.)

[Conn47D24]

No help from me on this topic.  However,  I am comforted by how often other members here have the same story as me.

Stripping our cars down 30-40 years ago with all good intentions of restoration. 

Not giving up, stockpiling parts, and learning here how to get back on track. 

Youth, time,  life, experience.

What a ride!

[Pete]

Hi all,

 

I bought a pair of choke and throttle cables from Vintage American Parts for my '39 Plymouth. They look great. However, they didn't work very well. The choke would just hold the position you set, and the throttle cable would immediately get pulled back in by the throttle return spring. There didn't seem to be any resistance like the original cables.

 

Since the old cables worked well, I replaced those original ugly cracked plastic knobs with the knobs from the new cables from VAP. The new knobs are threaded and held on by set screws. They come off easily. I cut the old plastic knobs off the old cables. Under the plastic was a small metal knob that the plastic was formed over, so I cut that off the end of the inner cable. Then I threaded the inner cable to fit the new knob.

 

Now it looks great, works great.

 

Pete

 

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Hi all,

 

I bought a pair of choke and throttle cables from Vintage American Parts for my '39 Plymouth. They look great. However, they didn't work very well. The choke would just hold the position you set, and the throttle cable would immediately get pulled back in by the throttle return spring.

 

 

 

 

Unless i don't understand you, that is how they are supposed to act.

[JBNeal]

Resistance may be added by lightly crimping the sheath behind the dash, just enough to drag on the wire but not so much that the wire gets in a bind...I wouldn't use a pair of pliers but rather a C-clamp so you can literally dial in the resistance that you want

[Richard Cope]

I have a 39 Plymouth which also has the choke & throttle knobs molded on the metal sleeve that holds the cable.  I wanted to keep the original knobs that would match the light and panel knobs.  Found a small shop that did a great job at repairing, he made a vertical cut in  the metal holding the knob with a dremel, then silver soldered a new cable within.  The groove in the metal sleeve then had to be filed out.  Unfortunately the shop owner recently passed, however wouldn't be difficult for someone that is good at silver soldering 

If you want I can send photos of the completed work, may take me a day or so.

 

Regards,

Richard

[Eneto-55]

57 minutes ago, Richard Cope said:

I have a 39 Plymouth which also has the choke & throttle knobs molded on the metal sleeve that holds the cable.  I wanted to keep the original knobs that would match the light and panel knobs.  Found a small shop that did a great job at repairing, he made a vertical cut in  the metal holding the knob with a dremel, then silver soldered a new cable within.  The groove in the metal sleeve then had to be filed out.  Unfortunately the shop owner recently passed, however wouldn't be difficult for someone that is good at silver soldering 

If you want I can send photos of the completed work, may take me a day or so.

 

Regards,

Richard

I think I understand what you are describing.  Tell me if I have it right.  He cut a groove length wise in the plug stem, correct?  (Soldered the new cable wire in the groove, and filled it in, as you said.)

 

I guess the first step for me is to find out if the cable would still be long enough if I just  cut off enough of the cable sheath to allow the amount of required movement.  (I'm thinking that 3 1/2 to 4 inches would be about right, but that is another question I have - How much cable wire extends beyond the cable sheath at the engine end?)

Edited September 13, 2020 by Eneto-55

[Richard Cope]

I was fortunate that he had a long sections of the inner wire that he used.  If he hadn't had the inner wire was considering using one of the cables purchased from American Vintage Parts.  Cable worked OK for me,  however wanted to keep the original knobs, believe the length would still be adequate after loosing the 2.5 to 3 in.  One could probably use the inner cable & outer casing from a replacement kit used on lawnmowers, however cable may not be as good of quality as the original.   

[Pete]

22 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Unless i don't understand you, that is how they are supposed to act.

 

Hi Sniper,

I probably should have been more clear. Neither the choke or hand throttle cable had enough resistance to overcome the throttle return spring. Yep, the resistance does make a difference.

For example, say it's a chilly morning (like tomorrow as we have a frost warning here in Vermont). Get in the car, step on the gas briefly to pull out the choke knob, and start the engine. Put it in gear and engage the clutch. As soon as you step on the gas the throttle return spring will immediately open the choke all the way unless there is resistance in the choke cable. The car will stall. If you're working the steering wheel and shifting gears you won't want to have to hold the choke knob out. All the manual choke vehicles I've owned had resistance in the cable.

Also, on my '39, with the replacement hand throttle cable with no resistance, it didn't matter if you touched the accelerator or not. The hand throttle would immediately snap back all the way in, which makes it pretty useless. There are a number of uses for it. I use it most when I'm checking timing or vacuum at various RPMs. I've read that some farmers used to set it, jump out of the cab, and walk along side throwing harvest into the bed (too bad we didn't have YouTube back then).

Pete

 

 

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

 

Hi Sniper,

I probably should have been more clear. Neither the choke or hand throttle cable had enough resistance to overcome the throttle return spring. Yep, the resistance does make a difference.

For example, say it's a chilly morning (like tomorrow as we have a frost warning here in Vermont). Get in the car, step on the gas briefly to pull out the choke knob, and start the engine. Put it in gear and engage the clutch. As soon as you step on the gas the throttle return spring will immediately open the choke all the way unless there is resistance in the choke cable. The car will stall. If you're working the steering wheel and shifting gears you won't want to have to hold the choke knob out. All the manual choke vehicles I've owned had resistance in the cable.

Also, on my '39, with the replacement hand throttle cable with no resistance, it didn't matter if you touched the accelerator or not. The hand throttle would immediately snap back all the way in, which makes it pretty useless. There are a number of uses for it. I use it most when I'm checking timing or vacuum at various RPMs. I've read that some farmers used to set it, jump out of the cab, and walk along side throwing harvest into the bed (too bad we didn't have YouTube back then).

Pete

 

 

My grandpa had a 52 Dodge pickup, and for the following two summers after he passed away I lived there for the summer (150 miles from home) to help out on the farm.  The first summer there I cleaned out the sheep shed, which hadn't been done in some years.  It is flat land out in western Oklahoma, and the field I was hauling it to was one of the bigger ones, so I would point the pickup toward the opposite end of the field, climb in back and shovel it out until I got to the other end of the field, then climb back into the cab & turn it around to head back.  The throttle was set up high enough that it ran at a pretty good speed.  (I was working alone, so there was no one in the cab while I was shoveling the manure out.)  Lots of good hard work for a 17 year old kid.