These are the days of our lives....Aftermarket Parts Woes Water Distr. Tube

[keithb7]

The rad is out of my '38 getting rebuilt. While its out I figure I better get in there and replace the water pump. Well the distribution tube is behind there too. Better have a good look at it while I am in this far. 

 

So all this is out, no time like the present to check all this. I also have a spare new water distribution tube that I ordered from Bernbaum a couple of years ago. I figure I'm all set to go.

The tube in my engine seems good but it's hard to tell really. All the crap could be at the back I figure. I've read about all the nightmares. I figured I better get it out and have a look. I quickly made my own puller out of a 1" wide piece of flat steel. I took a grinder to it and cut a hook and a long taper. That seemed to fit well in my new spare new distribution tube. I inserted it and started pulling by hand. It was not coming out.  I clamped some vise grips on the flat steel puller and tapped with a hammer. The tube came out fairly easily. 

 

I was saddened to see the tube was brass or bronze alloy of some type. That's a good thing. But it's soft and the puller started to tear the openings where I hooked it, for the water to flow. I suspect by 1954 (the year of my 228 ci engine) they were using brass so it wouldn't corrode.  The sad part is, it's soft and sorta wrecked now from pulling it out. Lesson leaned.  The good news is I had a new spare tube ready to go.

 

Drat! The new replacement isn't built to proper specs. It's too wide at the base. I am not going to attempt to hammer it in there.  Seen here in the pic below. Left is my original tube. Mic'd in at .4311". On the right is the new replacement measured .5774". Quite a difference. I've got a friend who claims he would cut and resize it for me. Will endeavour to do that.

 

Learn and heed from my mistakes. Brass is likely an improvement over earlier original steel tubes.. Seems to me, a great tube. Mine I suspect is original. Bernbaum probably has a bad batch in stock I suspect. Or did at least a while ago. The friend who offered to resize my tube bought a Bernbaum one last year too. Exact same issue. Too wide at the base. I bought my tube from Bernbaum about 2.5 years ago as a spare for my '53 Chrysler.

 

More delays in prime cruising season...Grrr. Oh well, at 100F outside its too hot for the old rad anyways. It had to come out. Or park the car and not drive it until the summer temps quelled.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by keithb7

[BobT-47P15]

darn-------now....i need to check the tube i bought from bernbaum a few months ago.   it is regular metal and was coated with that good old

military stuff......cosmoline.   Removed it with paint thinner.    

Edited August 5, 2020 by BobT-47P15

[keithb7]

It was coated with some type  black coating. Looking down inside the tube where there is no coating, it seems it may be galvanized metal?

[keithb7]

I put this together for my You Tube channel. You can see how I did it here:

 

 

[Pete]

I had my 39 P8 rebuilt over the winter. It had a brass WDT, which surprised me. It has the original 39 engine. Not sure if the WDT was original. It could have been replaced when the engine was last rebuild in the 1950's.

 

Anyway, the tube was brass. It came out fairly easily, and looked almost new so it was reused. Since the rebuild the car's previous overheating issues seems to have gone away.

 

One note: you may want to replace the water pump bolt closest to the generator with a stud. I had to remove that bolt to change the upper generator bracket when I installed an alternator. Because those threads go so deep I had to remove the fan and pulley to get that bolt out. A real pain to be avoided.

 

Pete

 

[Sam Buchanan]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 

One note: you may want to replace the water pump bolt closest to the generator with a stud. I had to remove that bolt to change the upper generator bracket when I installed an alternator. Because those threads go so deep I had to remove the fan and pulley to get that bolt out. A real pain to be avoided.

 

Pete

 

 

After painting myself into this corner I cut a slot in the alternator (generator) bracket so it could be slipped over the bolt instead of having to remove the bolt. The bracket is under compression so cut the slot so tightening the belt will push the bracket against the bolt.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[belvedere]

Strange. I ordered a tube from Bernbaum a couple years ago and it was painted black and fit in my 1957 230.

[RobertKB]

I have pulled many distribution tubes and all were brass. I believe Canadian engines used brass tubes  only as I have never seen a steel one in a Canadian engine. I believe you have a spare engine kicking around. I would pull the tube out of that and if it's brass, I would use that in the '38. To me, a brass WDT is vastly superior to the steel as they are corrosion free and easy to pull out...............always being as careful as possible.

 

Also, now is a good time to change that front rubber motor mount if it is at all tired. Looking at your video, it looks to be a bit squashed. It could just be the video or I am not seeing well but it is worth replacing now, if at all iffy,  as it is easy to get at. Just a floor jack under the oil pan, with a soft buffer in between, and it's done in no time. Rubber motor mounts are available from nearly all the well know Mopar vendors.

Edited August 8, 2020 by RobertKB

[keithb7]

@RobertKB You are correct. I do have a spare CDN 218 engine. I just checked. I see it does indeed also have a brass tube. I will carefully try and remove it. I'll see if I can modify my puller to bite into several water slots at once, spreading the load. Hoping to not damage it. 

 

It's nice to have friends here who keep up on my spare parts inventory! What a great group here. Thanks!

[RobertKB]

4 hours ago, keithb7 said:

@RobertKB You are correct. I do have a spare CDN 218 engine. I just checked. I see it does indeed also have a brass tube. I will carefully try and remove it. I'll see if I can modify my puller to bite into several water slots at once, spreading the load. Hoping to not damage it. 

 

It's nice to have friends here who keep up on my spare parts inventory! What a great group here. Thanks!

Glad I can help. Whenever I’ve pulled them I basically use a bent coat hanger with vice grips on it and gently tap the vise grips with a light hammer. Coat hanger will usually bend before any damage. May take a few times but I’ve always got them out. 

[Loren]

Vintage Power Wagons sells Stainless Steel WDTs.

That's where I went for my 265 Chrysler Industrial Engine.

[Dodgeb4ya]

My WT  puller...I can slowly wedge them out or slide hammer out....I prefer to slowly wedge them out...prevents tearing the slots

[Jerry Roberts]

I wonder if it is feasible to braze up the old brass tube . 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I'd tig or gas braze it...certainly wort a try.

Cleanup the hardest part.

[RNR1957NYer]

I'd bet it would be possible to solder it.  A trip to the hobby shop to pick out the right brass flat stock from the K&S display should get you what you need to repair any holes the puller made.  I've got a '54 230 I'm going to rebuild for my P12 - I just said a little prayer for the tube to be brass..... 

[keithb7]

Round two. Success!!! There is nothing like experience....You live you learn.

 

 

[RobertKB]

55 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Round two. Success!!! There is nothing like experience....You live you learn.

 

 

Glad to see you had success. Love the brass tubes. I don’t understand why Mopar used anything else. Probably cost and they likely thought no one would be working on these motors 70 years down the road. Nice video by the way!

 

BRASS WATER DISTRIBUTOR TUBES ROCK!!

[keithb7]

Thanks to you @RobertKB, for reminding me I have a spare block, with a brass tube in it! I owe you something lol. Next time you pass through Kamloops be sure to stop in for cold one. Actually the same goes for many folks here. I'm near the Tran-Canada Hwy. The only road that crosses this country. Any Mopar friends are welcome to drop by.

 

My front engine mount appears ok. I would like to change it. I have a new one here ready to drop in. I attempted to, and got to second guessing what I was doing. I removed the top two nuts on the mount., I started to jack up the front of the engine using a block and a jack. The engine started to rise up, but not enough to clear the threaded studs in the mount. Seemed to me I might be stressing something if I kept going with my hydraulic jack. I gave in and rescinded. Not wanting to risk wrecking something. 

 

A good friend has me lined up with a '49 251 engine. I am thinking it will end up in my 38. My 38 already has the same 25" block in it now at 228 ci.. The 251 would give me gobs of torque and great power to weight ratio. I'd enjoy rebuilding a flathead. I think it sounds like a great project. Would make the '38 a  sleepy little stocker to reckon with. So the front mount would be updated at that time when the engine is swapped out. Could be a few years, who knows. But at 1,000 miles per year, I'm sure the current one will be fine for some time yet.

 

I picked up my rebuilt rad today. Just like brand new! A new water pump and thermostat were installed today too. I am very much looking forward to running the car again very soon.

Edited August 8, 2020 by keithb7

[RobertKB]

For sure I’ll stop in for a cold one!

 

You will like the 251. I have one in my ‘48 D25 Dodge club coupe. Lots of power and torque. Of all the various flathead displacements, I like this one the best. 

[John Reddie]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:29 PM, keithb7 said:

Round two. Success!!! There is nothing like experience....You live you learn.

 

 

Great videos Keith. Thanks for posting them. I have seen some of these tubes that were steel come out in small chunks and turned out to be a monumental project.

John R

[Al-P8]

I know this thread is a few years old but i didn't want to start a new one as my experience with the dreaded WDT are similar. I started working on mine in my 1939 P8C engine this week. Yes, took pretty well all week. Came out in little pieces. Steel tube. I had no idea I could curse that much!

 

Anyway, I have a replacement steel tube and like Keithb7, I needed to cut the welds, narrow the tube and spent several hours manipulating it with a body hammer to get it to slide back in there. Yes, I cleaned the block as thoroughly as I could. So now that I have it back in there, I have a couple question and hoping you all could share your wisdom with a newbie before I button the engine back up and slide it back into the car.

 

I have looked several times but I have not been able to find a good picture of a new tube installed before the water pump goes back on. I just want to be sure the gaps I have around mine are reasonable / typical. I will attach a pic below. The gasket lines up pretty well with the tube but just want to be sure so I don't damage the engine with an improper install. I was also wondering if the stainless steel tubes would fit better? I understand their longevity and will likely change this one out with a stainless version in a few years if I need to do a rebuild.

 

I just want to get the car in decent enough shape so I can drive it this summer for some fun and not damage anything. Will give me a chance to assess everything and get a game plan together for priority repairs etc. I pulled the motor because the rear main was leaking pretty bad, the front lower timing chain seal was leaking real bad, the clutch was warped and the starter was fried. Thought I would freshen it up and have some fun. I have only driven one for about 3 minutes when I got this one started by towing it when I brought it home on a trailer this winter. I'm hooked! LOL

 

As I have said before, I would be lost without this forum and the many folks who share their knowledge. It is so appreciated. Not like one can walk down to the local garage and ask for advise. lol

 

Cheers, Al

[Sniper]

If I may make a suggestion, before pulling a WDT, especially a brass one, inspect it.  I bought a borescope for that kind of thing.  Finding one with a small enough head to fit down the tube might be a trick though.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0791DG4FK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[Al-P8]

Thanks Sniper. I had to pull it. It had a hole in the side of it. It was definitely not a brass tube. I used a magnet to fish out some parts of it. It must have been changed at some point in it's life. I don't have any real history on the car unfortunately other than it had been parked for a few years. Has been semi restored at some point in it's life. 

 

Any thoughts on the gaps in the block around the tube? Normal or trouble?

[Plymouthy Adams]

I think that tube rather small at the opening and will allow a good deal of your water to cool front of then engine over that of the rear...but sheer volume may make up for it.....just my thoughts......

[Al-P8]

Thanks Plymouth Adams. Maybe I will just order a stainless tube and give that a try. Hopefully it will fit better.

 

Cheers, Al