Engine rusty and stuck

[Frank Gooz]

Hello to all,

I have been reading for a while. looks like a great group of people. Hope some of can help. My 48 Desoto's engine is stuck rust in one cylinder. what can I use? I have used many types of oils.

Next is molasses? 

[Worden18]

50/50 mix of acetone and transmission fluid if you haven't tried it yet.

[joecoozie]

I have heard from others that diesel fuel is good for that. If all else fails you may need to pull the head. Valves could be stuck, too.

That being said, as with a Chrysler I had, no matter what was tried (I even pulled the head AND loosened the crank bearing caps) that engine would NOT turn over-even with a 1" drive breaker bar and a long pipe. I also had a 49 Plymouth that had a locked-up engine. Even when the tranny was in gear and the car was pulled with a truck all that happened was the rear tires dragged.

Sometimes they will free up and other times they need to be torn down.

[Frank Gooz]

1 hour ago, Worden18 said:

50/50 mix of acetone and transmission fluid if you haven't tried it yet.

I will give this a try. Is there a length of time? too look for to know it it is working for me?

Thank you

 

[Loren]

Rusty and stuck are relative terms.

I had a Ford V8 I was going to take apart. After three days of drenching in lots of good stuff and pounding I got out the cutting torch.

Eventually I concluded the only thing I could reuse was the block...as one leg for a park bench.

I had a pallet of Ford cylinder heads which became stepping stones in my garden.

 

Then I got smart and started working on my Chrysler IND 33 265cid, with a much happier out come.

Fords up to the flathead were the Chevy small blocks of their era. Certainly there were/are better engines, just not as cheap and plentiful.

 

[Worden18]

6 hours ago, Frank Gooz said:

I will give this a try. Is there a length of time? too look for to know it it is working for me?

Thank you

 

I suppose it'll depend on how badly stuck it is Frank.  I'd dump some in there every day for a few days and be patient.  Fingers crossed for ya ?

[Tooljunkie]

Mine was stuck. Varsol, atf and sea foam is what i used. And even the long pipe on 3/4” drive wouldnt move it. I pulled clutch inspection cover and got a wiggle with a pry bar on the ring gear teeth. Back and forth a few times and it was free. Got it started and a couple oil changes and now it runs like a top. 

[Los_Control]

10 hours ago, Frank Gooz said:

48 Desoto's engine is stuck rust in one cylinder. what can I use? I have used many types of oils.

Next is molasses? 

Molasses is a good rust remover, never heard of it being used in cylinder walls.

You say you have rust in "one" cylinder ... this may require more investigation. Removing the head would not be a terrible waste of time, as mentioned above you also could have stuck valves. Very common on these old flatheads, and a simple fix if the head is off.

 

Your comment though "rust in one cylinder" causes a eyebrow to raise. Do you all ready have the head off? How do you know? How did the moisture get in there?

I have heard 1000 times that 50/50 atf/acetone is the best to use in a situation like this.

 

All that being said, curious what molasses/water would do. I tried it one time at my Uncles house. I had a 20 gallon bucket I filled and used to de-rust things. I had my heater in it, doors were rusted closed. 2 weeks later I pulled it out and it was like brand new. Hose it off and paint it, like new today ... except where the pits are from severe rust. I kinda doubt it will penetrate though ... would clean everything it can reach and maybe that would be enough?

You're really thinking outside of the box here 

 

Grandpa had a old plymouth suburban, he drove the wheels off of that car. Last time he drove it in 1961, He wound her out so tight he spun a bearing and continued to drive it to get home, ended up locking up the motor. I gave it away a couple years ago, I told the guy the story so he does not waste his time trying to unstick the motor.

Sometimes we get lucky on these old engines, but not all the time.

 

[Sniper]

When I got my 38 Plymouth the engine was stuck.  After jumping thru all the mentioned hoops to try to get it to free up I pulled the head. One cylinder had a rust hole from the cooling jacket into the cylinder and that was what stuck the engine.  Scrapped the engine.

[keithb7]

Ok I’ll jump in. I acquired a 1949 218 engine it was stuck. I tried ATF in the cylinders and soaking. I tried diesel. About every 12 hours I tapped on the pistons with a piece of 2x2 wood and a hammer. Long breaker bar and prying on the flywheel, it still would not budge. A week later I moved on. 
 

I Got to thinking about all the other parts that also turn with the crank. 
It estimated that it might not be just the steel piston rings rusted to the cylinder walls. I pulled the front cover and removed the timing chain. To eliminate seized valve train resistance. Then I removed main caps thinking there may be some resistance there.  No go. Then I removed the rod caps. Then I lifted the crank out. Finally I got a 5 lb sledge and a 2x4. From the bottom side, I had to hammer a couple pistons out real hard. 
 

Yup. I free’d it up. Too bad it was in 500 pieces now. 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by keithb7

[JerseyHarold]

I've used appropriately-shaped pieces of plastic cut from a milk jug to root around in the gap between the top of the pistons and the cylinder walls.  I got a lot of grit and dirt out from between there.  I believe that allows the penetrating fluid better access to the piston rings.

[John Reddie]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

When I got my 38 Plymouth the engine was stuck.  After jumping thru all the mentioned hoops to try to get it to free up I pulled the head. One cylinder had a rust hole from the cooling jacket into the cylinder and that was what stuck the engine.  Scrapped the engine.

Did you get another engine for the '38 Plymouth and end up driving it? I grew up with those '30's cars-love 'em.

John R

[Sniper]

I got a 360 for it, bought a 79 Newport as a donor and I used a ton of stuff from it.  Engine, trans, rear axle, front suspension (had to be narrowed), front seat (had to be narrowed), switches, wiring, lights, everything I could.  The Newport was a shell when I scrapped it.  the 38 was a rusty, dented up shell when I got it.  

 

[westaus29]

As stated above, there is rust and then there is rust. If its minor, your approach may work. A badly rusted bore will never free up with penetrating oils. When rust forms it expands and seizes things up. I would be wary about using a chemical such as mollasses, not sure what it would do to aluminum pistons or bore, it does attack metal also. If you wanted to try something like this, try an acid based radiator cleaner suitable for alloy blocks. They have inhibitors to minimise metal attack. 

 

Like Keithb7 above I found an engine for my 38 Plymouth sitting in the bush with head off, originally a T series out of a Dodge truck but same block. My old school mechanic stripped head and crank, then poured about 1/2" of gasoline on top of each piston and lit it, outdoors of course, surprising how quietly it burns. Did that about three times then took a block of hardwood and a small sledge. All except one came out easy, the last one took a lot of hammering. Put the hone thru, sent block to get one bore resleeved and rest taken out to suitable oversize, put it back together and it still runs ok (no longer in car but ran it 10 mins before starting teardown. It wont be going back in because I have a couple of P6 blocks and want to go original.