Double Flare Tube Questions

[keithb7]

I read about the newer flexible, softer tube line that is available. Its easier to work with than steel lines. I agree its easier to bend and shape.  However I am scratching my head about the double flair I am getting. 

 

Is this softer tube a thicker wall? I seem to be getting oblong flares. Not nice and circular. The tool bracket, when I tighten it on around the tube is bowing in the centre. The outer ends are tight. Center clearance seen in pic below. 

 

Top pic is after inital step 1 pressing to bubble the tube. Tube is cut straight, filed and tapered before pressing. 

 

Tool is Industrial Eastman made in USA. 195-FA. Perhaps only built for single flare? Or only made for thinner wall steel tube? I will research more. 

 

I had better success when I double flared steel tube in an earlier job. 

Thoughts tips appreciated.  Thanks. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would think in your application that your chamfer is not what it should be when you begin your forming process with the insert...

[Sam Buchanan]

Wonder if the new tubing is metric.......

[keithb7]

Great points guys. I will go back to where I bought the tubing and see if it is metric. Upon research I found that this particular tool appears to be designed for single flare use. 

 

I am currently making fuel lines.  Practicing a few more here, I am getting good single flare results. I will carry on with single flare as I believe this is adequate for fuel.  

Edited November 8, 2019 by keithb7

[Plymouthy Adams]

If  your tool does not have the button for starting the inversion of the tube in for the double flare...yes you will need to get the right tool....this is what the button look like....shown is 3/16 and each line size has its own button....the head of the button is also a gauge for how far the tube extends from the clamp portion of the tool for proper forming of the end.  Again chamfer is important...

 

 

simple single flares will work with fuel all day long....as it will with most water pipes and LP gas.. these are low pressure applications...

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sam Buchanan]

31 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Great points guys. I will go back to where I bought the tubing and see if it is metric. Upon research I found that this particular tool appears to be designed for single flare use. 

 

I am currently making fuel lines.  Practicing a few more here, I am getting good single flare results. I will carry on with single flare as I believe this is adequate for fuel.  

 

 

I've found that a few drops of oil on the flaring tool really improves the operation.

[kencombs]

That tool is not up to the task. May be that the tubing doesn't match the hole.  Cheap calipers will clear that up in a hurry.  Check the tubing you've used successfully, then then new stuff.  Even so,  It should not bow with only hand pressure on the wing nuts.  I'd try using a pair of vice grips to hold the center before tightening the clamp nuts.  And, as Sam stated, a little lube never hurts, especially on double flares.  That all said, I think you're right to use single flares in a fuel application.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by kencombs

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have had no issues with the 3/16 NiCu lines or on steel using this same tool......I learned quick that the chamfer is very important to good clean even flares....I use a bullet case trimmer as it will chamfer inside and outside of the tubing if and or where needed....only tool I have had trouble with is make bubble flares on any tube...those are not a bit of fun and require yet another special tool...

Edited November 8, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams

[HotRodTractor]

I upgraded to a hand held hydraulic flaring tool a few years ago. Quality flares across the board no matter what style with very minimal fuss compared to the tool being used in this thread. I regret not upgrading earlier.

 

Just food for thought for those that have trouble or are needing to expand their flaring capabilities. The one I purchased is made by Mastercool.

[Plymouthy Adams]

9 minutes ago, HotRodTractor said:

I upgraded to a hand held hydraulic flaring tool a few years ago. Quality flares across the board no matter what style with very minimal fuss compared to the tool being used in this thread. I regret not upgrading earlier.

 

Just food for thought for those that have trouble or are needing to expand their flaring capabilities. The one I purchased is made by Mastercool.

 

 

As they have always said, can't hide money.....!!!

[HotRodTractor]

1 minute ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

 

 

As they have always said, can't hide money.....!!!

 

And to paraphrase Henry Ford: A tool you need and do not buy, you will find you have paid for and do not own. That flaring set has earned its keep. lol

[Dodgeb4ya]

I've had my Master Tool flaring set for 10 years and have done tons of double flares.

Even 3/8" stainless.

Flawless flares. Costly tool though.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I bet it has if you do lots of this type work.  Would be hard to justify this for myself as I do not make that many lines....if I were gifted one of these....would be cats meow....maybe I ought to drop a hint......Christmas is coming....as is my birthday.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I just looked at a Mastercool kit selling for 268.00 and it did not have 3/16 capabilities....1/4 through 7/8

[HotRodTractor]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I just looked at a Mastercool kit selling for 268.00 and it did not have 3/16 capabilities....1/4 through 7/8

 

I know there are a couple different versions - mine has the 3/16 dies.

 

[vintage6t]

13 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

I've found that a few drops of oil on the flaring tool really improves the operation.

Or use brake fluid for a lubricant.

[vintage6t]

I've found this Cal Van flaring tool to be a really nice compromise between a high-end high-tool and a cheapo clamp type. I've done a few complete brake systems top to bottom with mine and It works consistently well.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Cal-Van-Tools-164-Line-Flaring/dp/B007QV50RE

 

[kencombs]

7 hours ago, vintage6t said:

I've found this Cal Van flaring tool to be a really nice compromise between a high-end high-tool and a cheapo clamp type. I've done a few complete brake systems top to bottom with mine and It works consistently well.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Cal-Van-Tools-164-Line-Flaring/dp/B007QV50RE

 

I'd never seen that one before.  Looks like it may be slower to use, but nice and compact.  Not all bar/clamp types are created equal.  Some don't deflect as the op pictured.  I have one, the brand escapes me at the moment, that inlcuded a set of expander dies.   Used more for non-automotive and can expand copper to allow sweating two equal sized tubes together.   That takes a good clamping bar.  All the expanding and flaring dies have a really nice hard polished surface which helps.

[Los_Control]

Here is the one I bought, looks like yours but claims it works on copper as well. $65

Lisle 31310 Double Flaring Tool Set

 

 

Makes Both Single and Double SAE Flares.

This tool set includes everything to flare thin wall steel, aluminum or .040 wall soft copper tubing. The set includes 5 thread dies and adapters for forming double flares on the following tubing sizes: 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" and 1/2". However, this set is not for use on stainless steel tubing. The set is packaged in a durable, oil and grease resistant tray for storage. Full instructions are included.

[laynrubber]

While your question is asking about double flare, for a fuel line application a single flare is plenty adequate to seal. Still, if and when you get to brake lines...they will need to be double flared.

[keithb7]

As this thread is getting more in-depth I will shed a little more from my experience. 

 

About 2 years ago I bought the same tool as shown above by @Los_Control  it worked for about 10-20 flares. Then I pulled the threads out of the hold-down hardware. The press is not rotating very nicely either. Again, more thread damage. It came with all the various sized buttons.  Cheap off-shore junk is what I surmised. It worked, just not good quality steel. 

 

So I set out to find a “Made In The USA” version. Better steel I figure. Hopefully it’ll hold up to more use. I got the bar and the press, used  for under $5. Made in USA by Industrial Eastman.  No buttons included. No big deal, I have the buttons from my first set. 

 

It works. I need to perfect my technique I think. It’s got the big butterfly wing nuts for the clamp. Is is better that my first one. However the size of the press tells me it was not designed for dual flare. Only single. With a double flare, you need more travel height with the press. Because you are making the bubble first. Then folding it in on itself. The Imperial Eastman press does not open far enough to make the initial bubble.  I think that between the parts and pieces from both tools I can do what I need. Double or single flares. 

 

Sure the right tool the first time would have been the right thing to do. Bigger bucks on tools is nice,  but I’m not sure I do enough flares to make it worth the cost. Likely I’ll get fed up, and go get another, higher quality, more expensive flare tool.  At some point I’ll wager that’ll happen. 

 

Here you can see the differences. I do not recommend the offshore lower priced press. You can see the thread material I pulled right out of the blocks, on the hardware here. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by keithb7

[Los_Control]

7 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Here you can see the differences. I do not recommend the offshore lower priced press. Cheap crap. 

I have to agree with that, life is to short to spend time fixing cheap tools that do not work right.

 

The tool I posted is stamped made in the USA along with patent number. Lisle tools is located In Iowa.

But it does look the same as the one you posted. Does a fine job on steel lines just have to wait and see how long it last.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I used the Imperial Eastman tool with the wing nuts for years with excellent results on regular brake/fuel line tube. The 6" long 1/4" diamter handle on the screw press was made to fit the large wing nuts to tighten them fully.

After years of using it the tool would not hold the tube tight enough as it bowed from wear...I found a quick solution was to use the bench vise to clamp the tube and die in the vice....tight...no slipping of the tube being double flared anymore.

[MackTheFinger]

18 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I bet it has if you do lots of this type work.  Would be hard to justify this for myself as I do not make that many lines....if I were gifted one of these....would be cats meow....maybe I ought to drop a hint......Christmas is coming....as is my birthday.

 

Consider it dropped.....and ignored... ?

[Plymouthy Adams]

38 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

 

Consider it dropped.....and ignored... ?