Plumbing- Oil

[Conn47D24]

Re:  D24 block

 

In advance of connecting oil lines , please check my thoughts here.

 

#1 = oil line to gauge

#2 = INLET to byass filter (top

#3 = Outlet from oil filter  ( bottom of can )

Other ports stay plugged. 

 

Am I correct this way?

 

Thank you

 

[pflaming]

I believe you are ok to go. I copied Coatney and put a oil gauge in line by the engine. It allows me to monitor it when I have the hood up.  Years back when Greybeard led me through my first build, he did not think this type of oil filter did much good. He said most of the benefit went to Fran. 

[greg g]

Yep. Don't forget the one to the oil pressure gauge needs a rubber idolator hose between the engine mounted line and the fire wall mounted portion to account for engine movement and vibration.  Also while you are in the neighborhood, a ground strap between fire wall and engine makes for better operation of vehicle electrics.

[Cold Blue]

Conn47D24 - my 48 P15 is plumbed that way. Here's a pic - Kinda hard to see, but hope it helps. Regards, Blue.

[Conn47D24]

Ahh, thanks ALL ! 

 

See many threads were it was reversed.  Want to be sure and do it once.

 

I have enough practice doing most things 2-3 times till correct !

 

 

Yes short flex hose on gauge line , check.

 

Threads all make clear the 20-30% filter efficiency .

 

Change oil every 1000 instead of 3000 to equal that ratio. 

 

Is that fuzzy math ?  ?

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I believe a couple of posts had oil filter housing where the location of the input and output of the filter housing was reversed....this will dictate the line attachment at the filter housing...the attachment to the block you have correct...so pay close attention to the markings on your housing....proceed from there when inlet/outlet is established.

[greg g]

1 minute ago, Conn47D24 said:

Ahh, thanks ALL ! 

 

See many threads were it was reversed.  Want to be sure and do it once.

 

I have enough practice doing most things 2-3 times till correct !

8

 

Yes short flex hose on gauge line , check.

 

Threads all make clear the 20-30% filter efficiency .

 

Change oil every 1000 instead of 3000 to equal that ratio. 

 

Is that fuzzy math ?  ?

 

The recommended oil change frequency for cars with out oil filter, according to my manual is 1500 miles.  With the filter, no reason you can't go 3000 or so.  It also says  change the filter every other oil change.

[Plymouthy Adams]

In truth, it is better to change the oil every other filter change.....I hope the rubber hose and clamp is just a temporary fix while getting the proper hard line fabricated and into place.  

[Cold Blue]

Plymouthy - dang, you are eagle eyed! You saw that there is a rubber hose on my filter return line...I just got this car not too long ago, and there is a BUNCH of stuff like that I gotta fix. That rubber hose is just one of the things on a very LONG list...Right now, replacing the starter motor is job number one....Regards...Blue. 

[dpollo]

 Cold Blue's connections are backwards.   I have seen the stuffing of the element work its way back to the pan when a filter is hooked up this way.  This material is then picked up and circulated to the bearings where it will block the annulus on the end mains , resulting in bearing failure.

 

Conn47, your original diagram is correct.   Also, the filter is the by pass type where it filters about 15 to 20% of the oil at speeds above 30 mph when the oil bypass is open.

Not as good as found on Chrysler sixes and all modern engines but better than nothing.

[Don Coatney]

 

 

[Merle Coggins]

3 hours ago, dpollo said:

 Cold Blue's connections are backwards.   I have seen the stuffing of the element work its way back to the pan when a filter is hooked up this way.  This material is then picked up and circulated to the bearings where it will block the annulus on the end mains , resulting in bearing failure.

 

Conn47, your original diagram is correct.   Also, the filter is the by pass type where it filters about 15 to 20% of the oil at speeds above 30 mph when the oil bypass is open.

Not as good as found on Chrysler sixes and all modern engines but better than nothing.

 

I wouldn't necessarily condemn the filter as being plumbed backwards without knowing exactly how it should be plumbed. Some have the inlet on the bottom and filter from inside-out, with the outlet being near the top-outside of the canister. Others feed in from the outside and filter from the outside-in and return out the bottom center. If there are markings on the canister for IN and OUT that would determine exactly how it should be plumbed. Otherwise the cartridge type inside would also determine that. The pleated paper filter cartridge will typically filter from outside-in, whereas the sock type would filter inside-out. (according to the filters I have seen anyway)

[dpollo]

Good point, Merle  but if I were  CB, I would check it out since he said he is in there anyways.

Nobody needs the expense of changing a crankshaft for such an obvious mistake.  

[Cold Blue]

Boy am I confused. I just bought this car, and I am learning about flathead motors as I go. Coatney's diagram leads me to believe that my filter is plumbed backwards.  Dpollo also says its backwards. Merle Coggins says not necessarily so; depends on the filter media. I took the cap off the filter can and it has a metal filter in it with perforated holes around it's perimeter, and what looks like a pleated paper filter element inside.  You can lift it up with a metal loop that is on top of the filter. The filter housing has been painted red previously; there are no "IN" or "OUT" markings on the housing that I can see. 

 

Just by my own observations, it looks to me that it is plumbed correctly.  Here's my thinking: If the oil came in near the top, it would have to circulate around the circumference of the filter, thru all those little holes, thru the filter media, and out the bottom. That does not make sense to me, as I would think any particles would congregate right around the inlet tube, and not be distributed evenly in the filter media. What makes sense is what Merle Coggins said. Oil in from the bottom, up thru the center of the filter, thru the filter paper, and finally circulate around the outside perimeter of the filter and out thru the top opening return line. Agreed?

[Los_Control]

look closely on your filter housing near the outlets, it should be stamped inlet/outlet at least 2 of mine are but maybe not all.

[Cold Blue]

Los - I looked very closely, and there are no markings on the inlet or outlet. Crawled under the car and looked closely at the filter housing bottom. No markings there either.

[Merle Coggins]

Is the filter element sealed against the center tube? That type of filter element should be. Then you would be correct in your statement that the oil coming in from the upper connection point would fill the outside area of the filter element, flow through the filter media into the center. The center tube will have at least one hole for that oil to go through and it will then exit the bottom port. 

Did you get any pictures of the inside when you had the cover off? It may be worth the effort to thruroughly clean in inspect the inside of the canister and replace the filter element so that you can get a clear picture of how it functions internally. 

[dpollo]

Looks like we ( I )  have started something here however, in my defense,  I have been familiar with these engines for over 50  years . All the bypass filters I have seen have had the return line at the bottom with the inlet at the top or near the top on the side.

Except  for the one I removed from a 59 Dodge  with the filter hooked up so the oil  was delivered to the bottom and the return from the side.

 This engine  had failed at  just under 3000 miles ,  Material from the filter was in the pan and  some of it had worked its way back  into the oiling system. It had the consistency of wet toilet paper.  The cartridge looked typical with a perforated  metal frame sealed around the  center  tubular post .

[Merle Coggins]

dpollo, I agree with you. Most vintage bypass filters I see on these engines have the drain/return port at the bottom and are fed from the upper side. However, I also know that mine is clearly marked IN at the bottom port, and OUT at the upper port on the side. It is a filter from the Deluxe Filter Company of LaPort, IN., and it uses the "JC" sock type element. This was marketed as the Heavy Duty filter from Dodge Trucks. Any of the other cartridge type element types I've seen flow from outside-in. Any pleated paper filter element needs to flow this direction as the pleats are more open around the outside, providing more surface area for the filter media.

 

You have reminded me of an issue with a failed bypass filter that I experienced early on in my career. I was working on a Cummins V12 (1710) with bad turbos. The turbos failed from lack of oil pressure. Upon further inspection I found the oil pump suction screen packed full of what looked like shredded cotton. This engine had a pair of Luber Finer bypass filters, along with the spin-on full flow filters. I found that one of the Luber Finer filter elements had split open and spilled its guts through the return port and into the oil pan. What a mess. Now that I think about it, I have to wonder if it had been plumbed backwards. I didn't know any better at the time to investigate that. Now I'll never know...

[Cold Blue]

Thanks everyone for the info. I am going to take the filter element out, clean the canister, and examine how it works. It does appear that the oil lines need to be reversed. I need to fabricate a hard line for the supply to get rid of that rubber line section anyhow.  Thanks!!! 

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

dpollo, I agree with you. Most vintage bypass filters I see on these engines have the drain/return port at the bottom and are fed from tedia.

 

You have reminded me of an issue with a failed bypass filter that I experienced early on in my career. I was working on a Cummins V12 (1710) with bad turbos. The turbos failed from lack of oil pressure. Upon further inspection I found the oil pump suction screen packed full of what looked like shredded cotton. This engine had a pair of Luber Finer bypass filters, along with the spin-on full flow filters. I found that one of the Luber Finer filter elements had split open and spilled its guts through the return port and into the oil pan. What a mess. Now that I think about it, I have to wonder if it had been plumbed backwards. I didn't know any better at the time to investigate that. Now I'll never know...

anyone remember the bypass filters in the 60s that used a toilet paper element?  My father-in-law thought that seemed like a great idea.

 

So he just put a roll in his standard Chevy 216.  Really bad idea.  Similar to that described above.  Mains were toast.  Rods weren't as bad, probably since the mains were pressure lubed and plugged, while the rods dippers still worked.

Edited November 20, 2018 by kencombs

[wayfarer]

I'll add that the port configuration is not necessarily the best way to determine in/out if the can is not marked.

The only way to know for sure is to look at the inside of the filter housing and see which port feeds the outside of the filter

and then which port is fed from the center of the filter.  IN/OUT