Rear Axle Castle Nut Tightning

[Tom Skinner]

I noticed a Drop or two of something coming out at the bottom of my right rear Wheel. I got under there and determined it was rear axle grease - not brake fluid.

I got my puller out and pulled the right rear wheel drum - my observation was correct. My outer seal leaked a drop or so. Seven years ago I replaced my inner rear axle seals.

I re-installed the same old outer's so now a small leak. I called and ordered new outer seals, and was told if the outer's are leaking the inner's are also. I am OK with that and ordered 2 Inner and 2 outer seals which I will install next week when they get here. My question is: how tight to tighten the rear castle nuts on the rear axles.

I had snugged them down 1-2 LBS or so and stuck a new cotter pin in 7 years ago, and when I used the puller to remove the drum - no pop like last time.

I referenced my Torque Spec on Page 311 in my Manual and couldn't determine if there was a Torque setting. I know you just snug the front Castle Nuts on the front axle, and back off a Castle Nut wedge and install the cotter pins on the front Axles. Am I right to assume this is also true on the rear axle castle nuts also?

Tom

Huntersville, North Carolina. 

[Young Ed]

I noticed a Drop or two of something coming out at the bottom of my right rear Wheel. I got under there and determined it was rear axle grease - not brake fluid.

I got my puller out and pulled the right rear wheel drum - my observation was correct. My outer seal leaked a drop or so. Seven years ago I replaced my inner rear axle seals.

I re-installed the same old outer's so now a small leak. I called and ordered new outer seals, and was told if the outer's are leaking the inner's are also. I am OK with that and ordered 2 Inner and 2 outer seals which I will install next week when they get here. My question is: how tight to tighten the rear castle nuts on the rear axles.

I had snugged them down 1-2 LBS or so and stuck a new cotter pin in 7 years ago, and when I used the puller to remove the drum - no pop like last time.

I referenced my Torque Spec on Page 311 in my Manual and couldn't determine if there was a Torque setting. I know you just snug the front Castle Nuts on the front axle, and back off a Castle Nut wedge and install the cotter pins on the front Axles. Am I right to assume this is also true on the rear axle castle nuts also?

Tom

Huntersville, North Carolina. 

 

That is way too lose. The spec I believe is 142 ft lbs MINIMUM. In other words they have to be TIGHT. I didn't get them tight enough on my 46 pickup and I would occasionally hear a clunk when starting out. Figured out after I would back up the drums would shift on the key and then I would get the noise when going forward again

Edited April 16, 2016 by Young Ed

[Plymouthy Adams]

you tighten the nut to the point of almost straining yours

[TodFitch]

That is way too lose. The spec I believe is 162 ft lbs MINIMUM. In other words they have to be TIGHT. I didn't get them tight enough on my 46 pickup and I would occasionally hear a clunk when starting out. Figured out after I would back up the drums would shift on the key and then I would get the noise when going forward again

 

It is actually 142 ft-lbs  minimum, see: http://www.ply33.com/Repair/torque

 

you tighten the nut to the point of almost straining yours

 

 

I weigh a bit over 200 lbs. I figure with a 2 foot breaker bar and most of my weight on it, the nut is probably tight enough. The bear is going to the next castellation slot after that to get the cotter pin in. And you really, really, really need to put in the cotter pin. Don't ask me how I know (fortunately it was adjacent to a garage/shop and at low speeds).

[Dodgeb4ya]

You need to be really careful installing the inner correct oil seals. Don't cave them in when driving them into the housing. Use a driver that matches the exact OD of the seal.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya

[Tom Skinner]

Hey - Abbott - Iv'e been a bad boy - Abbott. (Abbott and Costello)

Shoot now I know why them seals leak - for starters I bumped the Inner Seals in with a tiny block of wood - not neat - little dents etc.

Second, I didn't replace the outer seals coming back out. Third I only snugged the rear axle castle nuts like one would on the front

spindles. Thank you all for the Great advice! I did hear a kooky scratching noise from time to time turning corners slowly.

I figured that out though by looking at the back of the hubcap weird circle of scratches at the back of the center of the cap came from the cotter pin

rubbing a circular scratch pattern on that right rear wheel hubcap - mystery solved. I'm gonna fix that too by installing the cotter pin correctly - sideways.

I bet I get it right this time. I looked at Page 311 again, 142 LBS

Thanks again!

Tom

Edited April 16, 2016 by Tom Skinner

[Young Ed]

It is actually 142 ft-lbs  minimum, see: http://www.ply33.com/Repair/torque

 

 

 

I weigh a bit over 200 lbs. I figure with a 2 foot breaker bar and most of my weight on it, the nut is probably tight enough. The bear is going to the next castellation slot after that to get the cotter pin in. And you really, really, really need to put in the cotter pin. Don't ask me how I know (fortunately it was adjacent to a garage/shop and at low speeds).

Thanks for the correction-that's what I get for doing it from memory. 

[dpollo]

as others have noted, TIGHT !  but that is when all parts are new.  Recently I have discovered a loose rear axle nut after 15000 miles of running and mentioned this  to another long-time mechanic who was replacing the gearset in his 48 Dodge.  He tightened both axle nuts to about 150 ft lbs.  , drove the car 300 miles and  rechecked them.  Both were loose.   So my advice to myself and all who will listen, make them tight initially  and retighten them  after a few hundred miles.  

[Bingster]

I have some small castle nuts taken off bolts for my S-11 that I don't know where they came off of.  What application in a smaller bolt would use one?

 

And Who Is On First?

[Plymouthy Adams]

front suspension parts are usually fixed with castellated nuts 

[VFFFrank]

Jump in and correct me if I'm full of it, but.....if the cotter pin is making a circular scratch on the backside of a rear  hubcap, then the axle must be turning independently of the wheel. That implies that the axle key is sheared or wasn't in there to begin with. Although the nut should be tightened to spec, one can't rely solely on the friction at the taper to prevent slippage there.

??  Once the keyways are damaged, it will always be a recurring problem.

Frank

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would think if the cotter pin is anywhere near the cap....you  got a serious problem or a very long cotter pin

Edited April 16, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams

[Niel Hoback]

I think there are 9/16 on the rear axle housing bolts and the rear backing plate to housing bolts

[Tom Skinner]

I had the Hubcap on the Front as well. My Cotter Pins are too long. The Hub Caps are the shallow newer replacement type. I have the originals in a box in the garage. The Car has rode fine for 7 years with the Rear Axle Nuts at Snug, but I am wondering now could that have caused some internal gear damage in the pumpkin? 

I guess I'll know when I drain the pumpkin, and see the bottom of the pan.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Tom Skinner

[Young Ed]

I had the Hubcap on the Front as well. My Cotter Pins are too long. The Hub Caps are the shallow newer replacement type. I have the originals in a box in the garage. The Car has rode fine for 7 years with the Rear Axle Nuts at Snug, but I am wondering now could that have caused some internal gear damage in the pumpkin? 

I guess I'll know when I drain the pumpkin, and see the bottom of the pan.

Look for damage to the key and keyways in drum and axle. 

[Tom Skinner]

Drained Pumpkin. No Damage. Key Ways and Spindles fine. No Metal shavings in Grease at bottom of Vessel.

Torqued the Castles back to 150 L.B.S. . By the way when a Floor Jack is Lifting the Pumpkin - Both Rear Wheels off the ground then spin one or other wheel

the Cotter pin Spins with the Axle - That is how the Long Cotter Pin - Twisted Ends Scratched a Circular Pattern into the back of that Hubcap.

Shook back Wheels seems like there was no damage whatsoever. No play where wheel beraings seem concerned. I will pull Axles next week and look closely at the Wheel Bearings, and report back.

Looks like I dodged a bullet - Abbott

Edited April 16, 2016 by Tom Skinner

[Don Coatney]

You can cut the ends of the long cotter pin with a pair of cutting pliers. I have done this many times.

 

 

[Tom Skinner]

Don,

Will do, sometimes I just don't think!

Tom

[VFFFrank]

Of course the cotter pin moves around with the axle......it goes through the axle and nut. However, the axle, hub, drum, wheel and wheelcover (aka "hubcap") also go with it so I'm wondering how the cotter pin can make a circular scratch on the inside of the hubcap unless the axle is turning independently of the hub? Someone enlighten me, please.

F

[Dave72dt]

The hub cap should turn one to one with the axle when installed, same as the axle nut so the scratches may still be a mystery.  I've heard, not seen, that caps may tend to "walk" a bit and this may be causing the scratches.  Mention is the past has been about valve stems and trim rings walking so the same may be happening with the caps.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Dave72dt

[Tom Skinner]

The Scratches are not severe so I go along with the hubcap walking some.

I don't know what else it could have been? Maybe the End of the Long Cotter Pin leaned against the Cap enough to make it walk???

[Don Coatney]

Decorative hub caps clipped to the rim do have a tendency to walk. But the hub cap covering the front axle bearings should not walk. 

[Dave72dt]

The grease cap? Yeah, no walking. Rear axle doesn't have one, does it? If it does, disregard the walking.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Dave72dt

[Don Coatney]

The grease cap? Yeah, no walking. Rear axle doesn't have one, does it? If it does, disregard the walking.

I dont think the rear axle has a cap

[Tom Skinner]

No cap at the rear wheels.

I am positive it walked while on that back right wheel as that's where that noise seemed to come from on slow turns

back into my neighborhood streets coming in from riding her once a week. I guess I should say I only typically drive

about 15 miles a week, unless there's a car show that takes me 40 or so miles up the road. So in total I probably only drove

about 7,000 miles with the rear axle castle nuts at about 10 LBS tightness, however, and until I pull the Axles next weekend

there seems to have been no damage whatsoever to the Differential Gears, Spindles, or Keyways.

I am just going to hope the Bearings aren't monked up, if so I will also replace them as well. Then I will require some

help pressing them off and pressing new ones back on.

Tom