DollyDodge Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) I have a water pump question. Like a lot of things on my truck the water pump seems to be an odd ball set up (see photos-the one with the red firewall is my 49 1 1/2 but the pump was the same on it as the 50). From the parts manual it appears I have a pump for a PM F model. It has a 1 inch outlet on the the top. The old pump was working but when I took it apart I saw it is really rusted inside. So I ordered a new one, it comes with an opening on top for an elbow attachement which in looking at the parts manual was set up to connect to the bypass outlet on the water outlet elbow (mine has a plug in it). I am not sure what the correct setup should be, VPW has two different elbows for the pump, one without heater, and one for a heater connection. Would the heater elbow work? Another option is the new pump has a threaded hole that I could use. I could make a new elbow to go to the heater hose which would be similar to the set up I now have. What was the correct connections for a PH truck with a heater? Should the bypass be connected to the water outlet elbow and the heater, or just to the heater like mine is now? Does anyone rebuild the old water pumps or know of a source for one like mine? Edited January 7, 2014 by DollyDodge Quote
HanksB3B Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 It is a little strange.. Will return to this thread tonight... Hank Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 I know that Art Gould up in NY state rebuild water pumps and fuel pumps> Here is his link to his webpage: http://arthurgouldrebuilders.com/ rich HArtung desoto1939@aol.com Quote
DollyDodge Posted January 7, 2014 Author Report Posted January 7, 2014 Thanks to both of you. The new pump I got is like the one in the photo, and then the heater hose would be attached go in the top of the pump where there is now a plug in the photo, is that correct? Quote
TodFitch Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 I know that Art Gould up in NY state rebuild water pumps and fuel pumps> Here is his link to his webpage: http://arthurgouldrebuilders.com/ rich HArtung desoto1939@aol.com I've had him rebuild the pump on my '33 ('33 and early '34 water pumps are just enough different than later ones that I can't use a new manufacture pump). Not sure, but I believe that Art has passed away and his son is doing the work now. Still seems to have maintained a good reputation though. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) The old rusty looking pump is the OEM correct factory one for the 1-1/2 through 2-1/2 ton trucks- not that you have to use it. A rubber elbow hose connects that 1" nipple to the thermostat housing. If the truck had a heater package then the heater hose was connected to the lower radiator hose steel pipe insert sleeve with a steel 5/8" water elbow inserted into it. If you use the common modern replacement water pump you can screw in a 90 degree pipe fitting in the top of the new pump and it will work just fine. Also there is a factory cast aluminum 90 degree accessory heater hose fitting with a water shut off valve built in that bolts down to the top of the replacement water pump housing too. Look at google and this sites pictures of the old dodge trucks and you will see all the different heater hose combinations and how the hose connections could be made. Bob Edited September 27, 2014 by Dodgeb4ya 1 Quote
desoto1939 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Posted January 8, 2014 Thanks to both of you. The new pump I got is like the one in the photo, and then the heater hose would be attached go in the top of the pump where there is now a plug in the photo, is that correct? Yes you are correct. Take out the pipe fitting and then install a manual shutoff valve just like what is on the rear of head. This way if you have to disconnect the heater you then shut off the water flow at the back of the head and at the water pump. then you only have to drain the two hoses to the heater instead of draining the radiator and then have to put this all back into the rad. The time saved willbe worth the cost of the extra shutoff valve. Also if you heater hose springs a leack you can shut thos down and still drive the car or truck until you get a new hose at a local auto store while you are on a trip and not have to tow the car home. Saftey point. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote
DollyDodge Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Posted January 8, 2014 Sounds good. I contacted VPW and they will rebuild the old pump. I think I will go that way. They did a real nice job on my clutch rebuild. It looks like new, and they were very quick. Quote
DollyDodge Posted September 26, 2014 Author Report Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) Hi all: Another questior related to the water pump and water circulation. The shop was ready to put on the head and realized the old bock (50 3/4 ton PH) is a bit different that then replacedment block (51 PH pickup). If you look at the attached photo, the old block is the one without the pistons. If compare it to the other one you will see at the water pump end (bottom of photos) there is one more hole that in the old block, it looks like it is for circulation of water, but there isn't a corresponding hole in the head, though the new head gasket fits the new block (it also looks like the last gasket on the old block had that hole as well). The shop is thinking at this point to plug the hole in the new block. Any ideas on what he should do or is his appoach correct. When VPW rebuilt the water pump, the new plate they put on matches the newer block not the older one. Danged anyway. Edited September 26, 2014 by DollyDodge Quote
Young Ed Posted September 26, 2014 Report Posted September 26, 2014 I believe someone else on here has successfully plugged that hole. Otherwise you need an internal bypass head. 1 Quote
DollyDodge Posted September 26, 2014 Author Report Posted September 26, 2014 Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why there are the two designs for the block? Quote
Young Ed Posted September 26, 2014 Report Posted September 26, 2014 Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why there are the two designs for the block? They switched from external to internal thermostat bypass and when they did that they added the little hump and that extra hole. 1 Quote
Brent B3B Posted September 26, 2014 Report Posted September 26, 2014 Ed, if you put sealer on both sides of the gasket would you still need to plug the hole? seems like the head would be the "plug" a gaskets width apart. i know water will take the easiest path of resistance..... Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted September 26, 2014 Report Posted September 26, 2014 Does the "new" head use the other style thermostat housing? If so then you just put a plug in the top of the water pump housing and you should be good to go. Jeff Quote
Young Ed Posted September 27, 2014 Report Posted September 27, 2014 Ed, if you put sealer on both sides of the gasket would you still need to plug the hole? seems like the head would be the "plug" a gaskets width apart. i know water will take the easiest path of resistance..... Yes I believe the hole is forward of the head enough that it would still leak. Quote
Jerry Roberts Posted September 27, 2014 Report Posted September 27, 2014 If the machine shop can plug the hole , that would be the way to go . Please let us know what happens . Quote
DollyDodge Posted September 27, 2014 Author Report Posted September 27, 2014 The machine shop (Marvin) will plug the whole. He has plugged the hole on other flathead engines. He said it isn't hard for him to do. I want to keep the head that was on the old block, so when we got the new block we didn't get the head that came off it. I also wanted to use the old waterpump and thermostat holder, I have tried to keep as much original parts as I could. Marvin said he will fix it so it works like the way it was set up originally. He may be slow, but his work is really nice. I talked to him today, should have the hole plugged an head on early next week. Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted September 27, 2014 Report Posted September 27, 2014 I see. Can't wait to see it all back together and running. I for one really miss the Adventures of Dolly Dodge. Hope some day to convoy with you on one of them. Jeff Quote
John-T-53 Posted September 27, 2014 Report Posted September 27, 2014 If I remember correctly, there might be two versions of head gaskets - internal and external bypass designs. I vaguely recall being asked which one I wanted at NAPA. Pluggin' the hole should work though, as long as you use your old water pump and T-stat housing as planned. Note: the other end of the hole in the block passes out the front, and on internal bypass water pumps there's a hole in the back of the pump. A pipe plug would work good in the block to seal that hole. Quote
Jerry Roberts Posted September 27, 2014 Report Posted September 27, 2014 The machine shop (Marvin) will plug the whole. He has plugged the hole on other flathead engines. He said it isn't hard for him to do. I want to keep the head that was on the old block, so when we got the new block we didn't get the head that came off it. I also wanted to use the old waterpump and thermostat holder, I have tried to keep as much original parts as I could. Marvin said he will fix it so it works like the way it was set up originally. He may be slow, but his work is really nice. I talked to him today, should have the hole plugged an head on early next week. Let us know what method he uses . Someone will run up against this problem again in the future . 1 Quote
DollyDodge Posted September 28, 2014 Author Report Posted September 28, 2014 I will let you all know Quote
Jerry Roberts Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 Of course you could also buy a NOS head with a hump from Vintage Power Wagons for $ 135 . Quote
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