No Oil Filter??

[BIGBAND39]

I went to the local parts store and grabbed a filter for my '49.  When I got home and popped the hood, I found no oil filter canister.  From my memory on the '53 I had and from what it says in the factory service manual,  the filter canister should be on the driver's side just beyond the distributor and coil.  Still, nothing there.  Was an oil filtration system an option in '49?

[JerseyHarold]

As I recall, the lower priced models (DeLuxe series) didin't have an oil filter as standard equipment, so it's possible your car never had one.

[TodFitch]

Can't say for '49 for sure, but oil filters were optional on some models for some years.

 

Seems like it was a cost cutting measure as oil filters were standard on all models in the early 1930s. Only became an optional thing later.

[BIGBAND39]

So, I would just drain the oil and fill it through the crank case breather?  I'm wondering if I should drive to source a filter out and retrofit it to my car.  Although, if it hasn't had one for over 60 years, why now? LOL  Especially because oil has so many detergents in it now.

[RobertKB]

If you are looking for a canister, PM me.

[greg g]

First question, how much are you going to drive the car?

2nd, What are the conditions your are going to be driving in?

3rd, What type of oil are you planning on using when you change the oil in your car?

 

And yes oil filters were optional, and the service manual covers recommended mileage for oil change with and without filter.

 

 

So if your are going to drive 3000 miles or less per year, and your are driving on mostly paved roads, and you change your oil once a year, do you really need a filter that only filters 30% of the oil through the bypass system?  

[desoto1939]

Since your car did not have an original filter system i would then assume that the previous owners used straight weight oil W30 or W20.  These were not detergent based oils.

 

Has the engine been rebuilt, if not then I would not recommend going to a detergent type oil such as 10W30.. This will loosen up the build up of sludge inthe bottom of the oil pan.

 

You need to determine what yoy had.  You can add the filter system but stay with the straight weight oil so as not to distrub the old sludge buildup that could be in the bottom of the oil pan.

 

Others are going to chime in on this and they will also say the same thing.

 

My 39 Desoto had the optional throwaway canister oil can style but i converted to the metal canister with the dropin filter becasue of the price.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Dave72dt]

Be aware there are detergent straight weight oils and non detergent straight weights.  Don't assume all straight weight oils are non detergent.

[Don Coatney]

I went to the local parts store and grabbed a filter for my '49. 

 

How did you know what filter to by? There are several types of filters on these cars and as you found out some without filters.

 

Since your car did not have an original filter system i would then assume that the previous owners used straight weight oil W30 or W20. 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

 

Curious why you would assume the prior owner used that oil with all the choices available?

[BIGBAND39]

I would assume the car would see no more than 6,000 miles a year.  This would be city driving on paved roads.  I went with the filter I did because it was one of two similar ones that were listed by Advance Auto Parts to fit my vehicle.  Thank you for the advice on the weight of the oil.  Although the vehicle runs way to smooth and quiet to not have a rebuilt some time in its life, I don't know the history.  I will stick with a straight weight non-detergent oil to be on the safe side.

[desoto1939]

How did you know what filter to by? There are several types of filters on these cars and as you found out some without filters.

 

 

Curious why you would assume the prior owner used that oil with all the choices available?

Don: i am basing my reply on the year of the car being a 49 and no visible filter. During those years the dealers were doing alot of the serviceinh onthe cars and also assuming that they would use the proper oil of a straight weight oiland also sin cethe owners manual was delivered with the car the owner would use the recommended oil.  Buying a new car back then was a big deal so most people and I will say with tongue in cheek that most people valued their cars because it was a major expense.

 

Again just trying to provide some insight on the oil, but no one and including you can know for cetain what was used in the car.  Even if I sold you my 2011 volvo you would not know what oil I used and or even my daughter 2011 Ford Fusion.  But most people would try to figure out what was recommended and go by that knowledge. 

 

But I am not the all knowing and do not have a crystal ball to look into the past, but as some people have stated you like to attack other people posting and replies. I have stated this in the past about you and you have not gotten the idea that most people are trying to be helpful to the other forum members when seeking information.

 

So I willmake it a point not to replay to any of your posts since I have the feeling that if someone goesd against your opinion than they know nothing and do not have any opinion.

 

So tell my have spark plugs I am currently running in my 39 Desoto, but I really do not care if you can gues or even if you do reply I do not care for you flipped remarks. So stay in the South and be some what flipped, most members do not like your candid remarks.

 

But i guess you have the all knowing knowledge ball.

 

I try to provide help when I can, but i get the feeling that the only knowledge that counts is only your opinion and I say again your opinion.  Take care and if you do come up to Hershey plese do not stop at my site you are not welcome.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto19392aol.com

[TodFitch]

. . . I will stick with a straight weight non-detergent oil to be on the safe side.

Hmmm. I'd stick with multi-viscosity detergent oil to be on the safe side. I guess there are different opinions about what the safe side is.

[martybose]

Hmmm. I'd stick with multi-viscosity detergent oil to be on the safe side. I guess there are different opinions about what the safe side is.

If you don't know what oil was in it, non-detergent is the safe bet.  I had that experience a few decades back with a Volvo PV-444 I bought; had the oil changed right after I bought it, and wound up replacing oil filters every 4 days or so for around 3 weeks until all of the crud that had been in the motor stopped plugging up the filter.  Not fun!

 

Marty

[greg g]

what is it you got?  My autozone online shows only a choice of three replacement filter elements. 

[Brad Lustig]

I've heard that modern detergents are much gentler than those from years past. I used detergent oil when I first got my car running 20 years ago not knowing anything about anything. I changed the oils several times before dropping the pan. When I got around to dropping the pan it was clean as a whistle and no ill effects. The car sat for about 20 years before I got it. Now I may have just gotten lucky, but I'm not too scared of detergent oil.

[BIGBAND39]

Until I have the change to drop the pan, I think I will stick with non-detergent 30w.  After I can make sure there isn't any nastiness lurking in the sump, I'll transition to a detergent oil to help clean everything up in there.  Thanks again for everyone's insight and opinions. :-D

[Don Coatney]

Curious why you would assume the prior owner used that oil with all the choices available?

 

Don: i am basing my reply on the year of the car being a 49 and no visible filter. During those years the dealers were doing alot of the serviceinh onthe cars and also assuming that they would use the proper oil of a straight weight oiland also sin cethe owners manual was delivered with the car the owner would use the recommended oil. 

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto19392aol.com

 

.

Thanks, That answeres my question. I was only looking for the logic behind your assumption.

[wdoland]

So if my cars engine was rebuild a few years ago (before I owned it) and only had about 500 miles put on it, should I assume there is detergent oil in it now? I do have an oil filter.

[Young Ed]

So if my cars engine was rebuild a few years ago (before I owned it) and only had about 500 miles put on it, should I assume there is detergent oil in it now? I do have an oil filter.

 

Even if it didn't how much crud could have built up in only 500 miles? I'd say you are good to run whatever you want to.

[greg g]

On a fresh rebuild, most folks would probably put in a single weight for "break in" oil.  After tha,t assuming the block had been properly cooked and cleaned, the choice would bee owners choice stick with the factory recommendation, or up grade to a current  multi vis detergent.  

[Don Coatney]

Were it me with a 500 mile engine I would use detergent oil.

[Young Ed]

Were it me with a 500 mile engine I would use detergent oil.

 

Our engine rebuild shop recommends straight 30 non detergent for break in-the first 500-1000 miles.

[_shel_ny]

Theoretically all the oil eventually goes through the filter.

 

As stated in previous threads here, detergent oil has been commonly available for many, many years. It is only a guess on anyone's part as to what oil the po was using. 

 

Seems the car would have to have been sitting a long time to have not had someone put detergent oil in, but there we go again with a guess

 

Checking the pan, and valve area would be a way to get a bit of an idea how clean things are. Snake the pan and see how deep the sludge is.

 

 

EDIT: this post is in reference to the OP's portion of the thread.

Edited October 3, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48

[Eneto-55]

If you don't know what oil was in it, non-detergent is the safe bet.  I had that experience a few decades back with a Volvo PV-444 I bought; had the oil changed right after I bought it, and wound up replacing oil filters every 4 days or so for around 3 weeks until all of the crud that had been in the motor stopped plugging up the filter.  Not fun!

 

Marty

I bought a 98 OT PU in about 2005, and the oil was really black.  I drained the oil, drained the filter as much as I could, then put it back on & filled it with (filtered) used ATF.  I ran it at an idle for 3 minutes.  I had my hand on the key the whole time, in case I heard any change in the sound of the motor.  After I drained it (& replaced the filter) and refilled it, the oil stayed nice & clean for a long time, like months.  Since then I've heard of people doing this with diesel in the crank case, and running it on the road, but I'd stick with ATF, and for a short period of time, just idling.  It did the job on this one, anyway.

[meadowbrook]

I have heard all the arguments on oil like:

- If you use modern oil in an old car that only used ND oil, you risk loosening sludge and engine damage.

- ND oil lets sludge settle so it is better than detergent oil on non-oil filter or bypass oil filter cars, because detergent oils keep dirt in suspension, to get filtered out by a full flow filter, so if you dont have one, you are recirculating dirt through the engine.

- Modern oils are so much better than old ND oils that you get better life from them on any engine.

 

I dont think any clear conclusion will ever be reached.

 

I can tell you that it is likely that an unrebuilt engined car of the age that our cars are, had seen detergent oil usage because most folks who drove them just bought what was on the shelf at oil change time.

 

My '50 D34 is one such animal. When I got it 2 years ago, it had 70,000 original miles on the unrebuilt engine. I am reasonably certain the PO used normal oil on it since when I pulled the pan, there was no inordinate levels of sludge, some thin black coating but that's it. I would assume if ND was used, sludge would be piled up after 60 years. I started using ND oil for a couple of years and the sludge level actually rose on the pan to higher than when I 1st got the car.

 

So I have decided to take a risk, clean the pan again and started the car on a diet of 50/50 of ND 30 weight and Valvoline 20W50 racing oil (for the zinc...another oil topic to feed never ending arguments  ).

 

At this point I have about 30% ND and 70% Detergent. And next change will be 100%.

 

So far, no issues. Though my valve gallery is still nasty looking .

 

I will keep you guys posted.

 

So I recommend to clean the pan and start phasing in detergent oil.

 

PS- I ran into the same issue with my 1965 VW. No oil filter but I always used detergent oil in it and engine is also non rebuilt original, though ny the 60's detergent oils were pretty available anyway...