Rear Drums

[50 coupe]

I have a 50 Plymouth Business Coupe and need to redo the brake system. Trying to the get the rear drums off. So far, sprayed them down with PB blaster, backed off the minor adjusters and removed the nuts from the pad anchor bolts and knocked them in toward the drums, backed up the axle nuts and did some figure eights in the yard. Banged away with the drum puller tool, all to no avail at this point. Question, when using the drum puller, the brakes are loosened enough that the drum will turn so at one point I put the tranny in gear but the drum will still turn some when striking the tool. I only did this a few times because I didn't know if doing this with the car in gear would damage any drive train components. Should I have the car in gear when doing this or not? I think I was using third gear, maybe 1st or reverse would provide more resistance? What would you suggest at this point. Thanks.

Edited September 16, 2013 by 50 coupe

[JIPJOBXX]

What kind of drum puller do you have??? A friend of mine has one that is made by Snap On tools and its totally heavy duty.  If you're using a light duty puller then I suggest you rent or find someone that has a puller that you can use a 8 to 10 lb sledge hammer on.  You might also use some heat on spline part of hub. Boy I do not know about the gear set up but I have left it in gear with no trouble.  I do know one thing that the factory torque setting is 141 inch lbs and they are tight!.  Good luck!!!!

[50 coupe]

1. I rented the puller from a tool rental place. I looks just like the one pictured in the tech article about brakes found here on this site. I'll rent again for next weekend. I didn't have a proper sledge but was using a piece of a 2 inch by 18 inch steel bar that wieghed about 10 pounds. Just feels kind of strange banging that hard on something that is part of the drive train. Wondering if using reverse might prevent the drum on the right rear from turning forward.

[_shel_ny]

Might put the parking brake on as well.

[1940plymouth]

This is the set up I used to remove my rear drums.  You just have to be patient, plus DON"T FORGET TO install castle nut back on backwards so you don't damage the threads on the axle.  like I said, be patient and eventually it will pop off

[TodFitch]

I've always just used a hand sledge. I think some people call them a single jack. Our webmaster/site owner mentioned a another post a while back that he uses an impact wrench. Seems like that should work pretty good.

[50 coupe]

1940 Plymouth - that's pretty much the tool I was using and had the castle nut backwards also.

 

Did you guys have the transmission in gear when banging away? My drum turns some with each blow so didn't know if the lack of resistence was making it more difficult. Also, I know the recomendation is against using heat. If anyone has done so, what heat range is o.k. Just turning red maybe?

[JIPJOBXX]

Have you used this type befor?  Its just like my buddy's and it work great!  Just hamer away and then hit the end and it should pop oft.  Leave the axel nut on but loose or backed oft or the hub might just fly oft into your lap or foot or whatever.  I never had to use heat but the hubs do fit tight. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

DO NOT NOW OR EVER HIT THE END WITH THE HAMMER...this is a big no-no and a direct warning in the book...internal damage to the third member could result...use approved methods or risk damage...all I can say here....however..it is yours to do as you wish...not all practices posted here on the forum are kosher...while it is good to ask questions here..the book should always be consulted for procedure..

Edited September 16, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[JIPJOBXX]

Yep I'm again wrong! Do not hit the end of the puller! 

Edited September 16, 2013 by JIPJOBXX

[50 coupe]

Well, if I can't hit the end of the tool, I guess I should just twist it off. Has anyone had success with a 1'' air impact wrench?

[desoto1939]

when they say the end of they are not meaning the end of the dogbones. This is the end that you need to strike with your hammer. The are saying that you sound not hit the dead center end where ther dogbone attaches to the screw end.   So you hit onthe long  flat piece that has the two  knobs onthe ends. Hit on this with sharp blows.  remember the tapered axle and drum have been on for a long time and when the car used being used the rear drums were being pulled at lest onece a year and upwards to two times a year.

 

So time, rust and pressure onthe taper are working against you. be patient they will comeoff keep working it.  And then you will hear a loud pop and the drum will be free from the axle.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Plymouthy Adams]

the secret is having the three arms of the puller properly spaced  aligned to the puller hub and nutted flat to the drum when applying your pressure..hitting the bar that tightens the screw of the tool is ok..just do not strike the end of the tool....I have not had any problems to date removing drums by the specified method...again..ensure the alignment is proper when applying the torque..I have not had to apply heat to these to date...

[TodFitch]

when they say the end of they are not meaning the end of the dogbones. This is the end that you need to strike with your hammer. The are saying that you sound not hit the dead center end where ther dogbone attaches to the screw end.   So you hit onthe long  flat piece that has the two  knobs onthe ends. Hit on this with sharp blows.  remember the tapered axle and drum have been on for a long time and when the car used being used the rear drums were being pulled at lest onece a year and upwards to two times a year.

 

So time, rust and pressure onthe taper are working against you. be patient they will comeoff keep working it.  And then you will hear a loud pop and the drum will be free from the axle.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

I'll add a picture for illustration to Rich's explanation:

[P15-D24]

Well, if I can't hit the end of the tool, I guess I should just twist it off. Has anyone had success with a 1'' air impact wrench?

That's my preferred weapon in this battle. Zip, zip it's off. 

[captden29]

FiveO, my experience for the tough ones has been that when you think you have already hit the puller too much and something is going to break,wait 5 minutes and then hit it some more.it will come off.i have on occasion removed the tool, repositioned it on different bolts, and then went at it again. I never used heat,and eventually they all come off.some have said they have left the puller under tension on overnite and then found it had popped off by morning.the nice little sledge in the picture is my hammer of choice. I have never done it where the brake drum can turn freely. capt den

[ptwothree]

Snap-On, and maybe others, make a heavy duty slide hammer type puller.  I used one on my rear drums.  Worked great!  Maybe a NAPA store or other auto supply store might rent these.  I borrowed one from the local high school auto shop.  Good luck!!

[50 coupe]

Thanks guys for all the replies. Yes, I was striking properly on the dog bone, not the end of the tension bolt that presses on the axle end. Also, made sure that 3 prongs were bolted secure and flat against the drum. Since my car is stored about an hour away from home I don't get much time to work on it so I was pressed for time. I'm gonna rent the tool again this weekend and maybe that 1inch impact since I have an adequate compressor at the location. For whatever reason the parking brake lever is stuck, even after loosening the brake from around the drum on the drive train so I can't use it to stop rotation. I guess the tranny clutch may be slipping allowing the drum to turn but there should be enough resistance to pop the brake drums. I'll try it with the tranny in reverse when doing the right side. Having so much fun!

[knuckleharley]

Thanks guys for all the replies. Yes, I was striking properly on the dog bone, not the end of the tension bolt that presses on the axle end. Also, made sure that 3 prongs were bolted secure and flat against the drum. Since my car is stored about an hour away from home I don't get much time to work on it so I was pressed for time. I'm gonna rent the tool again this weekend and maybe that 1inch impact since I have an adequate compressor at the location. For whatever reason the parking brake lever is stuck, even after loosening the brake from around the drum on the drive train so I can't use it to stop rotation. I guess the tranny clutch may be slipping allowing the drum to turn but there should be enough resistance to pop the brake drums. I'll try it with the tranny in reverse when doing the right side. Having so much fun!

The impact works great because it essentially hits on the end of the axle at the same time it is pulling and vibrating. Not as sharp as hitting directly on the end of the axle with a BFH because it is twisting through the threaded axle nut at the same time it is striking,but the vibrations and the pull at the same time are what is working the magic.

 

Also,AFAIK,and I may well be wrong,there is nothing at all wrong with using the BFH to beat on the face and sides of the drum. Again,it's the vibrations working their magic. You don't have to swing the BFH like you are slaying dragons. The idea is to set up vibrations to break the hold that time  has put on the parts.  When doing this you even have some leverage to rock it from side to side a little.

 

Do all that,then use your impact and BFH if necessary to tighten the axle nut again,and go have a cup of coffee. Come back a half hour later and repeat.

 

The main thing is to not just get frustrated. Time and pressure WILL eventually pop them free.

 

Just make sure when you put it back together you lube up the axle end,the key,and the keyway and center of the drum good so it comes off easy/easier the next time. I don't know why,but it seems like mechanics in the past didn't like to grease this stuff up when they put them back together.

 

NONE of this applies to any of you people who are using the wrong puller and hoping to "get by" with it. You have a uphill battle ahead of you,and I wish you all the luck in the world.

 

BTW,I also have old Fords,a old International,and the Mopars. All used the tapered axles with keyways. Just because a drum puller works on a Ford with a tapered rear doesn't mean it is going to work perfectly with a Mopar or International. The old Fords had a 5-1/2 inch bolt pattern,and and the IHC and Mopar use 4-1/2 inch bolt patterns. I had trouble getting a 40's drum puller that worked great on Fords to work on my IHC,and finally broke down and bought a universal bar puller that looks exactly like the one in the post above by Todd Fitch,and it worked like a charm. That puller works on bolt circles from 3-1/2 inces to,I THINK 8-1/2 inches. The pullers made for Fords have trouble adjusting down to the smaller 4-1/2 inch bolt pattern and as a result you don't really get a even pull.

 

I bought my puller from Sears,of all places. Unfortunately,Sears quit selling it within a week of me placing my order. It is made by a tool company in Chicago,though. Maybe the best $70 or so I have ever spent on a tool. Having the right tool makes all the difference in the world.

Edited September 17, 2013 by knuckleharley

[TodFitch]

. . . Just make sure when you put it back together you lube up the axle end,the key,and the keyway and center of the drum good so it comes off easy/easier the next time. I don't know why,but it seems like mechanics in the past didn't like to grease this stuff up when they put them back together. . .

No!

 

The tapered fit, just like how bits are mounted on big machine tools, is where most of the power is transferred between the axle and the drum. The key is not designed to take all that torque.

 

Put it together dry like the factory and engineers intended. Chances are it won't be as bad next time to take off as it won't have been rusted as long anyway.

[Niel Hoback]

  I suggest that you not "beat on the face and sides of the drum" unless you plan to replace it.  The drum will easily deform and become out of round if not cracked. 

[knuckleharley]

  I suggest that you not "beat on the face and sides of the drum" unless you plan to replace it.  The drum will easily deform and become out of round if not cracked. 

Maybe,but I haven't had it happen yet.

[Tom Skinner]

Hit it like you live..................... Fast and Hard.... LOL

an old Carpenter's maxim

[Plymouthy Adams]

Sounds like some of these guys here tested Samsonite luggage in the past...

[50 coupe]

OK, spent two sundays banging, pulling, using puller tool and 1in impact. No joy. Guess it is time for plan B. Rear end swap. I see lots of good info on this site already. Time to play in some junk yards!