1954 Plymouth Suburban Project

[james curl]

I do not know, two of the ones that I have had the rods, I took them off as I could not see how they worked with the rear mount, looked like they would stress the bottom ears.  I have two with Ford mounting pattern, one from a Camero, two from S-10s and one T-4 speed from a S-10 with the same rear housing as the T-5s after installing a shift plate that has 5th gear notch.  As it becomes apparent I have collected then over the years at swap meets, some are world class and some are not.  I am thinking that it was the Ford mounting pattern transmissions that are world class with Ford  26 spline input shaft, but used in S-10s or S-15s or maybe Astro Vans.  I just checked it was the Ford Patterned mounting cases that have a steel plate bolted to the rear of the main case using the tail shaft housing bolts and went forward to the bell housing bolts.

Edited August 7, 2013 by james curl

[Plymouthy Adams]

^{my NV3500 has ears on the case also but I have never seen any thing attached...I attributed them the same use as the automatics..they are just holes in the case that sit in a jig/cradle while servicing the tranny..}

[murfman1967]

I have not seen those support rods on any T-5's I have delt with. Is that mostly a world class thing?

I don't thinks so, my T-5 is a "World Class" version

[james curl]

These are steel plates that use the attaching bolts for the tail shaft housing to main box bolts. The ears are twisted, or bent on an angle to line up the rods with the bell housing bolts these two are Ford pattern world class transmissions from S-10.  I just went out and checked, I have two with rods13-52-145 which is a non world class from a 85/86 S-10 and the other is 13-51-120 which is a T-4 from, a S-10 pick up.  The rods attach to the fin on the bottom of the tail shaft housing and spread out to be about 2" wider than the front of the transmission and extend about 3" past the mounting face when flat against the bottom of the transmission, these are Chevy pattern on the mounting face.  The Ford pattern transmissions are 13-52-216 WC from 1993 S-10 pick up.

Edited August 7, 2013 by james curl

[pflaming]

Now, if we eliminate page 4, which is a very interesting discussion on transmissions, we can get back to the suburban project. 

 

 

 

I find that after having 'restored' one vehicle I now think ahead much more especially on the time factor. If I have two opposite entities going a the same time while I'm waiting on parts for one, I can be working on the other so now I 'm factoring in how I can rebuild the engine and resurface the body during the next couple of weeks. 

 

So, tomorrow the engine is returned to my shop as well as the front fenders and hood.  Tangible things will now begin to happen.

 

My current dash. Will clean it up then put back on only the minimum items. No trim, keep it clean and simple. Do delete pieces exist to cover the speaker holes? Stay tuned.

 

(to be continued)

 

Edited August 7, 2013 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Discovery and decisions: 

Discovery: the fuel tank is shiny inside!!!!

Decisions: I have two sets of fenders / hood. The '54 set are 'premered but there is yellow underneath. The '53 set has a bit of color with the original blue under the dark blue. I don't know yet how much of that dark blue is going to come off. 800 wet/dry did not take much off.

 

I prefer the '54 fenders/hood but don't think they will go onto the body. The bolt pattern to the body seems to be different, closer examination is required.

 

Question: Has anyone put 54 fenders on a 53 body? They are VERY similar but not identical. Some minor changes will have to be made where the trailing edge bolts to the body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2013 by pflaming

[Dodgeb4ya]

The fenders should bolt right on. 53 and 54 bokys are the same.

[murfman1967]

My body shell is a 54 and I have 53 fenders, they bolted right up no modification needed.

[pflaming]

The bottom one supposedly is a 54 and the top a 53. It's apparent these are not going to swap. Now the "54" fender may not be a Plymouth. So whatever it is; it, its mate and the hood will soon be posted in the for sale section. But Identification precedes that.

 

So now I have an original patina challenge!!!!  

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2013 by pflaming

[murfman1967]

Discovery and decisions: 

Discovery: the fuel tank is shiny inside!!!!

Decisions: I have two sets of fenders / hood. The '54 set are 'premered but there is yellow underneath. The '53 set has a bit of color with the original blue under the dark blue. I don't know yet how much of that dark blue is going to come off. 800 wet/dry did not take much off.

 

I prefer the '54 fenders/hood but don't think they will go onto the body. The bolt pattern to the body seems to be different, closer examination is required.

 

Question: Has anyone put 54 fenders on a 53 body? They are VERY similar but not identical. Some minor changes will have to be made where the trailing edge bolts to the body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is NOT a 53 or 54 Plymouth or Dodge fender.

 

P.S. 53 0r 54 Dodge fenders and hood will bolt on if you are so inclined.

 

[DJ194950]

So now I have an original patina challenge!!!!  

 

Paul- google "patina painting" of how to "creat patina" paint. Enjoy the search. Suspect that "patina paint" will cost as much or more using automotive paint, but using spray cans will probably get you yorr patina paint reasonably!  

 

I have actually seen in a major rod mag. how one professional rod shop took a brand new fiberglass repop of an early furd and took a dremmel tool to make rust holes and 4 differnent colors of paint on the body and sanded parts off  of the color and then actually added rust colors near the rust holes and smeared it and rubbed sand in  after the paint stated to set on some of it. Imagine paying a shop $100 per hr.(or more) to do the work for you?!!!   

See how much money your saving!!!  

 

Doug

[pflaming]

Doug, a patina paint application is often called a faux patina or "faked". One could use a more positive term by using 'created'. I am not a fan of faux patina, that is just another 'paint application'. I 'm not against it, it's just not something I like.

 

However I will do as you suggest, there should be something there that I can adapt. 

 

To find a way to 'blend' these colors together is going to take some thinking. Oh the joys of living 'out of the box'. 

Edited August 8, 2013 by pflaming

[pflaming]

I have a pair of these and hood to match. Can anyone identify the model they came from? They are without rust or dents.

 

After some research, they appear to be '52 fenders. '53 and '54 had the edge on the fender, 55 & 56 are very different, but this looks like a 52 fender. 

 

Edited August 9, 2013 by pflaming

[Dodgeb4ya]

That is not a 52 plym fender. Most likley a 53 or 54 Dodge?

[Furylee2]

That is not a 52 plym fender. Most likley a 53 or 54 Dodge?

 

I think you're right.  Here's a picture of a 53 Dodge.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Paul,please post pictures of your restored vehicle.....I do  recall a rework of the patina hauler?????????

[CaptainGTX]

Check the length of the fenders.  If they're 53-54 Dodge, which they appear to be, they're from a sedan.  They will be longer and will be less rounded above the headlight than on a shorter wheelbase Dodge (convertible, Belvedere hardtop or Sierra wagon).  I believe the shorter wheelbase Dodge front clip will bolt up to your Plymouth, whereas the longer wheelbase Dodge clip will not (at least not without modifying the front attachment points).  After all, that's how they made those pudgy Dodges, using the Plymouth bodies with a Dodge front clip.  In the case of the 2 dr wagons, they didn't even try to disguise the rear ends.

[pflaming]

It's hanging from a 4x6x24' beam, safety first, then resting firmly on the standards.  I put a battery to the starter and it works, had ATF in the cylinders so they are now lubed and now ready to set up for a compression / oil pressure test.

 

Observations: (1) the tranny has an extension tube, evidently on the cars so they could switch just the extension for different wheel bases, (2) ? is this tranny different than my B3B tranny? (3) I noted a 'freeze' plug on the head along side cylinders 5 & 6. Is that a freeze plug? (4) the spark plugs came out HARD. I moved them then put penetrating oil on the and let that work for an hour before I took them out. All came out ok, but someone must have used an air hammer to put them in, (5) Oil filter question: I don't think they are worth the trouble for a hobby vehicle but it would be interesting to put an oil pressure gauge on the outlet side of the filter btween the filter and the block and see if that pressure is the same as the engines.

 

This is my second engine 'build' so . . . 

(to be continued)

 

 

 

 

[Desotodav]

It looks pretty good all cleaned up Paul.

I reckon that you will have to shout yourself a new camera next so that we can see clear shots as you work on your fleet of vehicles!

[Dodgeb4ya]

Paul, is it foggy down there in Cali?

[TodFitch]

On my Plymouth engine's head there is a core/welch/freeze plug toward the rear. I'd have to look to see if it is between the #5 & #6 cylinders, but I'm pretty sure it is above the sensor bulb for the temperature gauge. Wouldn't be too surprised if pulling that would allow one to work a stuck bulb out without damaging the capillary tubing.

[pflaming]

Dodge and Desoto: foggy pictures, I discovered the problem, pics will be clear from now on. Thank you for noticing and commenting. I was personally "enhancing" the pictures and thus changing the clarity. 

 

ps. My dear wife walked into the garage just after I had the engine on the stands. She could not and still does not understand how could get that engine from the truck to the stand without help.

 

So I ask, "If a man makes a statement in his shop without the presence of his wife or significant other, is that statement true or false?" 

[Desotodav]

I thought that your camera might just be like mine Paul - doesn't like taking clear photos when lighting is not so good.

 

Re your true/false statement - it is whatever she says it is. I think that this restaurant sign sums it up well...

 

[pflaming]

I like the full radius rear wheel opening but that was not as they were. I looked at Google 1964 Dodge suburban images, not one car like this. Someone modified this car including the grille and the plain hood. IMO it's a nice, cleanly modified look which I like. 

 

 

[Young Ed]

On my Plymouth engine's head there is a core/welch/freeze plug toward the rear. I'd have to look to see if it is between the #5 & #6 cylinders, but I'm pretty sure it is above the sensor bulb for the temperature gauge. Wouldn't be too surprised if pulling that would allow one to work a stuck bulb out without damaging the capillary tubing.

 

Yes that trick does work. Of course its not fool proof either but you can get another angle on them for penetrating oil and can even give a nudge to the bulb.