Oh Oh...no Bueno!

[47heaven]

Well, now I know why it won't turnover anymore.  @%&$!!!!!!!       I only pray that the flywheel isn't in the same shape.

Edited July 14, 2013 by 47heaven

[Plymouthy Adams]

just curious what your starter ring looks like on the flywheel...what in the hang happened here?

[Tom Skinner]

Muy malo mi Amigo.

I reckon shimming it wouldn't have helped at all.

[47heaven]

I don't know. I was trying to start the car after not driving it for a about year, and after about six tries the car stopped turning over and the starter just spun. If it was grinding, I really couldn't tell.
 

I don't even want to look at the starter ring on the flywheel. Metal shavings everywhere.

Tom...what do you mean by "shimming?"

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

shimming.......Chevy thing.................

[Don Coatney]

Is your engine locked up? Been a year sence you last drove it?

[47heaven]

Is your engine locked up? Been a year sence you last drove it?

No, it turned over, no problem.

[47heaven]

So how involved and costly is replacing the Bendix gear?

[Don Coatney]

So how involved and costly is replacing the Bendix gear?

 

 

I am not sure as I have never had to replace one.

 

Is this a 6 volt starter running on 12 volts?

[Plymouthy Adams]

_{Bendix replacement is not that involved...but for certain there was something wrong here...there had to be some tell-tale noise getting to this condition..was the starter bolted up tight is my question....there is an underlying cause for this I believe and you need to discover and correct it prior to installing another starter assembly to the engine..  The starter ring also is subject to a close up inspection}

[pflaming]

Maybe there is NOTHING amiss. Maybe the PO put a faulty starter on which had just enough teeth to work and those wore out. You might put in a new gear and then check periodically to see if wear is occurring. Just a hunch.

Dad bought a new 56 Ford Fairlane with OD. That car would FLY. The rear end went out and they discovered the factory had put the wrong rear differential in the car but could not figure out how or why. Strange things happen!

[Frank Elder]

No, it turned over, no problem.

It turned over a year ago or when you tried to start it............

[Don Coatney]

Here are my observations. Others may not agree and that is OK by me. When I first built my engine I used my P-15 6 volt starter although my car has been converted to 12 volts. I have heard many times that use of a 6 volt starter on a 12 volt car is an old hot rod trick to spin the engine a bit faster. What I discovered was that yes it will spin the engine faster but also due to the starter motor spinning faster the bendix also engages faster and I did not like the defenitive clank I heard everytime I pushed the starter button. So I found and installed a 12 volt starter from a 56 Plymouth, The clank disappeared once I did this.

 

On a recent visit with another forum member I was treated to a ride in his P-15. As soon as he started the car I once again heard the clank. I then asked him if he had a 6 volt starter running on 12 volts and I was told he did.

 

Is this what caused the issue with 47heavens car? I dont know but I would not rule this out. And I suggest that before you do anything else that you drop the inspection plate and take a close look at the ring gear.

[Jeff Balazs]

Here are my observations. Others may not agree and that is OK by me. When I first built my engine I used my P-15 6 volt starter although my car has been converted to 12 volts. I have heard many times that use of a 6 volt starter on a 12 volt car is an old hot rod trick to spin the engine a bit faster. What I discovered was that yes it will spin the engine faster but also due to the starter motor spinning faster the bendix also engages faster and I did not like the defenitive clank I heard everytime I pushed the starter button. So I found and installed a 12 volt starter from a 56 Plymouth, The clank disappeared once I did this.

 

On a recent visit with another forum member I was treated to a ride in his P-15. As soon as he started the car I once again heard the clank. I then asked him if he had a 6 volt starter running on 12 volts and I was told he did.

 

Is this what caused the issue with 47heavens car? I dont know but I would not rule this out. And I suggest that before you do anything else that you drop the inspection plate and take a close look at the ring gear.

I am a truck only guy and hardly ever post on the car side. But I do follow some of the threads here as there is a fair amount of useful crossover information in them.

Don has brought up something that I wondered about as well. I think he may have a very good point here. And perhaps something that has been overlooked in doing a conversion like this. I had thought about going to 12V on my truck and leaving the 6V starter in place. On the surface the faster starts sure has some appeal. But the more I thought about it the more I got to thinking that it might cause some reliability problems down the road. All too often we jump into a modification......particularly the so called "easy ones" without taking the time to consider what issues we might be creating by doing so.

I decided to stick with a straight 6V system for this potential failure and some other associated reasons. I am not saying that this is a bad system.......but I do wonder how often running a 6V starter on 12V has resulted in similar problems?

 

Jeff

[Young Ed]

I am a truck only guy and hardly ever post on the car side. But I do follow some of the threads here as there is a fair amount of useful crossover information in them.

Don has brought up something that I wondered about as well. I think he may have a very good point here. And perhaps something that has been overlooked in doing a conversion like this. I had thought about going to 12V on my truck and leaving the 6V starter in place. On the surface the faster starts sure has some appeal. But the more I thought about it the more I got to thinking that it might cause some reliability problems down the road. All too often we jump into a modification......particularly the so called "easy ones" without taking the time to consider what issues we might be creating by doing so.

I decided to stick with a straight 6V system for this potential failure and some other associated reasons. I am not saying that this is a bad system.......but I do wonder how often running a 6V starter on 12V has resulted in similar problems?

 

Jeff

 

Jeff having a truck throws another wrench in the pile. With a floor start you control the engaging of the bendix. So I think having a floor start would actually be a blessing with the 6v to 12 conversion.

[Jeff Balazs]

Ed;

Yes.....but I still think there is still a good possibility of speeding up the wear and tear factor on the starter and ring gear.

 

I don't know about how the access to this area is on the cars......but on my truck with the addition of the Grand Cherokee M/C I know I don't want to be working in that area any more than is absolutely necessary. It is probably the most "access restricted" area on the whole truck. I guess my philosophy here is pretty simple.......build it as bulletproof as possible so I don't have to revisit that "region" any time soon.

Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

I wonder more to the fact that the bendix is of the newer design and not the original version, new design released in 1952 and can be retrofit.  There is a caution in the book that requires some inspection and verification of the drive when installed and fitted to 1952 and up or if retrofitted to the 1946 and up starters...improper installation can cause ring gear damage and or  broken start mounting ears..while not mentioned..if ring gear damage is listed, im my opinion it is a given the starter drive will get resulting damage also

[hkestes41]

I had to have a new bendix on my starter two years ago when in Joplin for the HAMB Drags. I had the newer 12 volt starter on the car at the time which came with the 57 230. However, the teeth on the bendix were worn more at an angle for lack of better term rather than yours which look to be sheared off. Took the starter to a local shop that specialized in starters and they had it done in a matter of a couple of hours for a price of $78 and went through the rest of the starter to check for any other issues.

 

When putting the starter back in I closely inspected the teeth on the flywheel and they had corresponding wear. Once I got home pulled the starter took the flywheel off and swapped the ring gear from my 218 and reinstalled the original 218 6 volt starter. No problems since.

 

I agree with others you need to find out what caused the issue as like I pointed out before it looks like your are sheared off rather than worn off. A new bendix would likely see the same fate if the cause is not determined.

[greg g]

Don't remember where you ar from and this may be a ways away, but three years ago I had the occasion to visit this fellow and he had a bunch of NOS and Rebuilt old stock starters and generators, solenoids and regulators for cars from the 40's through the 70's on his shelves.  He also rebuilds items brought into him from a stock of older parts.  You might want to give him a call, about the possibility of a new piece or a rebuild of your item.

 

John Panos

Atlas

Electrical Rebuilders

1414 Brewerton Rd.

Syracuse, NY 13208

 

315 454 0196

[Tom Skinner]

I guess I meant to say shim it with spacers - they hold the starter in the right position so as not to have teeth grind.

Like the Pontiac's and Chevy's of old. It doesn't appear that will help you anymore.

[JerseyHarold]

Was the engine backfiring while cranking?   Anothor possibility is that the engine was hydro-locked due to water or coolant in the cylinders.  You might want to pressure-test the cooling system and look for milky oil on the dipstick.

[55 Fargo]

Here are my observations. Others may not agree and that is OK by me. When I first built my engine I used my P-15 6 volt starter although my car has been converted to 12 volts. I have heard many times that use of a 6 volt starter on a 12 volt car is an old hot rod trick to spin the engine a bit faster. What I discovered was that yes it will spin the engine faster but also due to the starter motor spinning faster the bendix also engages faster and I did not like the defenitive clank I heard everytime I pushed the starter button. So I found and installed a 12 volt starter from a 56 Plymouth, The clank disappeared once I did this.

 

On a recent visit with another forum member I was treated to a ride in his P-15. As soon as he started the car I once again heard the clank. I then asked him if he had a 6 volt starter running on 12 volts and I was told he did.

 

Is this what caused the issue with 47heavens car? I dont know but I would not rule this out. And I suggest that before you do anything else that you drop the inspection plate and take a close look at the ring gear.

Darren I would choose this as a Best Answer, and was going to suggest the very thing, before I read Don's post. When I had the 52 Chebby, on the Chevy talk forum, much debate on running a 6 volt starter on a 12 volt diet, pros/cons on both sides, but on those starters you can get 12 volt bolt-on solenoids for them, to lessen the thrust of a 6 volt solenoid while using 12 volts. 

I would also insist you drop the inspection cover and see what you are dealing with. I am very surprised you have not had any warning noises, but I guess it is possible to not have had any sever clunking or meshing noise, but still have abnormal fast wear on the starter drive and ring gear.

Let us know what you discover?.......Rockwood

[47heaven]

I am not sure as I have never had to replace one.

 

Is this a 6 volt starter running on 12 volts?

It was rebuilt and converted to 12 volts four years ago.

[47heaven]

It turned over a year ago or when you tried to start it............

After I installed the new gas tank and connected the line, etc., I tried to start the car, and the engine was turning over. There was a different sound while it was cranking, but couldn't make it out. After the 6th try, the starter just started spinning. Could having not run for a whole year had something to do with it?

[47heaven]

Was the engine backfiring while cranking?   Anothor possibility is that the engine was hydro-locked due to water or coolant in the cylinders.  You might want to pressure-test the cooling system and look for milky oil on the dipstick.

No, no backfiring. It cranked fine.