ggdad1951 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I think that if I ever (read that when) I decide to, I'm going to change to a 160° thermostate for this exact reason. I'ts just a good idea. I did watch a guy put some ice on his fuel line to get his car running again when he stalled out in front of me this last weekend. Seemed to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Thermostats do not limit how hot an engine can or will get. It only determines the temp at which the coolant in the radiator becomes available for circulation. A lower temp thermostat makes that coolant available sooner which means it may take longer for it to reach it's peak temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoose Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Used to be a ritual around here, in the Winter you put in a 180 degree for the heater but come Spring the 160 degree went in for hot weather driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Thermostats do not limit how hot an engine can or will get. It only determines the temp at which the coolant in the radiator becomes available for circulation. A lower temp thermostat makes that coolant available sooner which means it may take longer for it to reach it's peak temp. True. The question is "at what temperature is a thermostat fully open"? I don't remember so I did a web search which turned up two answers. One was that the thermostat is fully open at its rated temperature. The other was that it was fully open at about 20F above its rated temperature. So I am no wiser. If fully open at the rated temperature and the car is running at, say, 185F then it does not matter if you have a 160F or a 180F thermostat in it. Used to be a ritual around here, in the Winter you put in a 180 degree for the heater but come Spring the 160 degree went in for hot weather driving. That was the ritual where I was raised in southern Arizona too. Along with a yearly to every other year rodding out of the radiator due to hard water deposits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Water/Coolant is for heat absorbtion....if the water moves to fast....it doesnt do its job. Coolant will up the boiling point...70/30 mix under 15 psi of pressure will put the boiling point at 276 degs. If your normal operating temp is 160...185 is hurting your performance. I would use restrictors on my muscle cars and race cars because I didn't use them as daily drivers.....I warmed them up and controlled the flow rate by referencing normal operating temp. http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/51105/10002/-1 48D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Illinois Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 After I picked up and today with my 55 fargo, the see-throughy fuel filter between fuel pump and carb, was bubbling. The filter was hot, so was the carb, the carb base weeping some fuel. The glass bowl on the fuel pump, and the see-through filter between the gas tank and fuel pump were just fine.So this carb was percolating, and the gas boiling or severly expanding, so what is the answer to this? I have lowered floats, moved fuel lines, gonna try close pins next......LOL Mine does the same thing. I installed this heat shield, gas still boils, but seems to avoid going into the manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Illinois Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Thermostats do not limit how hot an engine can or will get. It only determines the temp at which the coolant in the radiator becomes available for circulation. A lower temp thermostat makes that coolant available sooner which means it may take longer for it to reach it's peak temp. I have been running w/o a thermostat, temps seem normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I have had hot starting problems on both the '48 (218 w/ Carter B&B ) & '49 (230 w/Stromberg), and assumed it was vapor lock. Daytime temps over 100, pavement temps well over that, with heat being shelled off by the radiator, and the engine compartment air temp can get hot enough to blister ya. Both had heat shields in place, with fuel lines routed away from the exhaust manifolds. The Carter carb was more prone to the heat as the fuel filter was over the manifold, and the fuel line is aimed towards the radiator before breaking towards the fuel pump. Installing a couple of spark plug boots spark plug wire sleeves helped, but on really hot days, hot starts were complicated by a very slow turning starter. New 6V batteries helped a little, but the starters would still turn much slower when heated up. Eventually, Ohm's law was considered, and it was determined that the original 2/0 battery cables were at fault. These cables, though appearing in good shape, had corrosion between the strands throughout their lengths, boosting resistance when hot, bogging down the starter motor as current was being impeded. New 2/0 cables, with chassis ground relocated from the transmission to one of the starter bolts, increased starter speeds, even on very hot days. This partially cured the hot starting problem. Checking the spark plugs, they appeared fuel-fouled. Once those were cleaned up, hot start-ups were a very rare problem that were often attributed to old gas. I recently tried the Coke bottle of water down the carb trick to steam clean the spark plugs: works like a charm! I had never heard of the clothes pin trick, but I had seen wadded up aluminum foil on old Chevrolets & Fords and was told it was to help with hot starting. Anyhow, clothes pins can act as a heat sink, the aluminum foil can act as a heat shield. As for the thermostat, the temperature rating is when the thermostat opens. Back when these flatheads were new, coolant with lower boiling temperatures than ethylene glycol were used. When ethylene glycol became readily available, cooling systems were redesigned to accommodate the 180 thermostats so that the hotter operating temps would boil out any condensation in the crankcase to reduce sludge buildup. Eventually, cooling systems were designed to accommodate 195 thermostats to combat sludge on tighter tolerance motors... As the flatheads have a great deal of mass to heat up, the coolant jackets would be much warmer than the oil in the lower end of the motor. As a check, I verified thermostat function at 180, then checked the oil temp...the oil had barely risen over ambient air temperature. So it takes several thermostat cycles for the block to heat up enough to raise the oil temperatures. At any rate, the hotter operating temperatures are beneficial to the internals of the flatheads to combat sludge. To offset the higher temps, insulating the fuel pump & lines from this extra heat can improve engine performance. Edited October 19, 2019 by JBNeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I have had hot starting problems on both the '48 (218 w/ Carter B& & '49 (230 w/Stromberg), and assumed it was vapor lock. . Best posting on this thread! Thanks! Good to see that you have done your homework and that you have a great understanding of what is really going on. Thanks for posting! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Has anyone given any consideration to the "Heat Riser", design, and it's ability to keep the carb heated up. Say if the heatriser is stuck, usually in the cold postion, that would heat up the carb big time ona hot day, would it not. Or if the heat riser flap was not seized, but still allows hot gases to move up ward, to some degree, allowing exhaust maniolf heat to heat up the carb. Is this design the cause of the problem? Was this a big issue back in the day, or is the modern ethanol blended fuel a problem, did old Leaded gasoline, have less problems in this regard. I am not saying I am having a big issue with this, but have had the hot start problems and gas boiling issues in hot weather. I do know my lawn trctor, and other small engine equipment, do not seem to have this issue, and those engines and surrounding areas get good and hot.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 My heat riser has never worked for lack of a spring. I was told that since I do not live where the snow is I don't really need one. I believe it's purpose is to help when the engine is first started. But would like a more techinal explanation. Thanks, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 My heat riser has never worked for lack of a spring. I was told that since I do not live where the snow is I don't really need one. I believe it's purpose is to help when the engine is first started. But would like a more techinal explanation. Thanks, Hank I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. When the engien is cold the "valve" is open and allows warm/hot gasses to bathe the intake/carb to help bring them up to temp quickly in cold temps. As the whole thing warms up, the spring closes the valve. I've heard that, yes, in you world the whole set up doesn't do much good at all as it's not that cold by you. Of course this is all the theory behind this, not saying it works as well as planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Personally I am curious as to whether or not the originator of this thread has resolved his problem..it has been 9 days..no reponse..he has been back on the forum but no updates as to what has been tried....so...ny headway being made to resolve the problem..getting better, staying the same or possibily worse now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Tim, His name is Standing Elk, not Running Buck so cut him some slack huh? Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 just curious to whether or not he got the problem fixed..that is all..hioping he has changeded his status from standing to running.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Me too! It makes me feel like he's stuck on some remote desert road somewhere and used the last bit of charge on his smart phone to log on to P15-d24 to ask this question instead of calling 911! Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 My heat riser has never worked for lack of a spring. I was told that since I do not live where the snow is I don't really need one. I believe it's purpose is to help when the engine is first started. But would like a more techinal explanation. the heat riser helps after the engine has started, but does nothing to aid a cold engine in starting. its purpose is to supply heat to the carb venturi area, to remove ice built up during the engine warm up period after the engine has started. the flow of fuel/air through the venturi cools the surface of the venturi, and that in turn causes water vapor to freeze to it. the cold surface and the ice contribute to minimize the vaporization of the fuel mixture, which makes the engine more difficult to run at low rpm. eventually, the heat directed at the intake manifold by the heat riser will transfer to the carb base/venturi, and warm it up enough to prevent ice buildup. it would seem to be especially needed in areas with moderate humidity and cool temperatures (35 to 50 F). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 So then is it possible that a heat riser could get stuck in the warm-up postiion and be the cause the gas boil-over (what we are calling vapor lock) condition? Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 So then is it possible that a heat riser could get stuck in the warm-up postiion and be the cause the gas boil-over (what we are calling vapor lock) condition?Hank absolutely. if the heat riser is stuck in the position to provide heat to the intake manifold/carb, the carb is going to be much warmer than it should be after the initial warm up. all things being equal, you'd be better with a stuck closed heat riser than a stuck open one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 so without a spring, is mine stuck open:( or stuck closed:)? Thanks Tim, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 i don't know. it could probably be either. i'd only be guessing if i said one or the other. that said, the logic is that the spring is bi-metallic, and contracts when it cools, opening the riser. when it warms up, the bi-metallic spring expands, closing the riser. therefore, without the spring, it could be in the closed position. or not. clear as mud, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Does anyone happen to have one of these springs for sale or trade? Thanks, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Does anyone happen to have one of these springs for sale or trade?Thanks, Hank bernbaums has them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I got my rebuild kit from antique auto celler. They may sell you just a spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing Elk Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 The fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb. ran within 1/4" of the manafold. I rerouted the line and have not had anymore problems. Thanks for all of your responces and sorry it took so long for me to post mine. And yes it is "Standing Elk" don't do much runnin anymore. LOL 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.