cylinder head gasket: which one is more reliable?

[Go Fleiter]

I burned 3 cyl head gaskets in a few thousand mls. Now I´m doubtful of which to use:

The oldest I had were copper sheated both sides with water and cylinderholes reinforced with copper (rings).

I got some 2 yerars ago with steel reinforcements around cyl holes plus water holes, but with suspicious (Chinese?) base quality.

Last month I got some from Victor Reinz USA with teflon on both sides plus copper around the cylinder holes. Water holes are without reinforcement. They seem to be top notch engineering and my mechanic likes these most.

But recently , on e-bay I found offered the copper variety like my oldest.

Any experience with blank ringless holes? Is that a disadvantage?

Should I try to get the copper sheated? Are they more reliable?

Thanks!

Greetings from Düsseldorf!

Go

[Young Ed]

I think after that many gaskets in so few miles I'd be looking at something else besides the gasket. Have you checked the head and block to make sure they are flat? Making sure the bolts are torqued correctly? I believe I have a felpro gasket in mine 48 but I didn't put it in so I can't say for sure what it looked like. However its been in there for almost a decade and 17K miles.

[flatheadtim]

You are probably doing this? But it is a must on these gaskets to spray the head and block with copper gasket sealer. Check block and head for warpage with a flat bar and good feeler gages. Inspect the old and new head gaskets closely.

[Rusty O'Toole]

Head gaskets should last longer than that. Should last the life of the engine.

As others have stated, did you check that the head and block surfaces are flat, head not warped, surfaces not burned or damaged?

Has the head been milled previously? In that case you would need to put washers under the bolt heads to prevent the bolts bottoming.

Did you clean the bolt holes with compressed air and chase the threads with a bottoming tap?

Are the head bolts in good condition, not stretched? If they are suspicious it is best to replace them.

If all these points are seen to, you still are not finished. The head needs to be torqued down in stages, with bolts being tightened in the correct order. After running the engine , check the bolts again with a torque wrench while the engine is hot. Recheck after 100 miles. Check again after 500 miles. If any are loose after 500 miles replace them, they are stretching.

Follow these steps and your head gasket should last indefinitely.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Rusty O'Toole

[Rusty O'Toole]

Tighten head bolts in this order

23----- 17----- 11----- 5----- 2----- 8----- 14----- 20----- 26

22----- 16----- 10----- 4----- 1----- 7----- 13----- 19----- 25

24----- 18----- 12----- 6----- 3----- 9----- 15----- 21----- 27

Edited May 9, 2012 by Rusty O'Toole

[claybill]

at 65/75 lbs

[Rusty O'Toole]

My book says 65 to 70 foot pounds.

[wallytoo]

Tighten head bolts in this order

23----- 17----- 11----- 5----- 2----- 8----- 14----- 20----- 26

22----- 16----- 10----- 4----- 1----- 7----- 13----- 19----- 25

24----- 18----- 12----- 6----- 3----- 9----- 15----- 21----- 27

you've got an extra set of bolts at each end. only 21 for these heads.

[Rusty O'Toole]

That's the Canadian version.

[greg g]

There were solid copper gaskets available mostly for marine usage. These are one sheet of solid copper and are thinner than the copper steel composite versions we are all used to. They were a felpro product and I had their part number somewhere but I can not locate it. they are no longer being produced but may still be around in marinas that dealt with inboard powered boats.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Those crafty Canadians! Making 27 head bolt flatheads- OMG:eek:

Bob

[Go Fleiter]

Head goes to planing next week,

new bolts are there,

the Teflon Victor Reinz have a small Felpro mark, I will use these.

Thanks! Go

[Don Coatney]

But it is a must on these gaskets to spray the head and block with copper gasket sealer.

I have never done that? Why is it a "must"? I have sometimes used what ever spray paint I have on hand and sometimes used no paint, installing the head gasket dry and never had a problem with sealing a head gasket as long as the head and block are planed smooth. Please explain why that is a "must"?

Those crafty Canadians! Making 27 head bolt flatheads- OMG:eek:

Bob

Me thinks this rusty old tool man has found an eight banger head gasket profile:rolleyes:

[Rusty O'Toole]

I copied the head bolt instructions out of my 1949-50-51-52 Chrysler Dodge DeSoto Plymouth Shop Manual, published by Chrysler Corporation of Canada Limited Windsor Ontario. WM4247.

It refers to the eight cylinder engine but you can use the same instructions on your six cylinder. Just stop when you run out of bolts:)

The solid copper gaskets are very durable and can be reused if you anneal them. Being thinner they also give a little higher compression. But your engine block and head must be "perfect" because they will not squish the way composition gaskets will.

[Dodgeb4ya]

And I have several Chrysler flathead eights with 27 head bolts! Man am I losing it! But then again I have never had to redo a head gasket in a straight eight in any of my cars- Guess thats why I didn't catch the 27 head bolt pattern. Rebuild a Chrysler eight once and they run for ever- at least mine do!

Bob

[40desoto]

So.... back to the original question.  what head gasket is more reliable?  copper? or non copper? 

[Grdpa's 50 Dodge]

We used to take sound old head gaskets,,,spray them with silver paint on both sides a couple times,,,and put them right back in.

 

Not this particular engine or application,,but a BIG diesel engines,,,none the less.  big enuf engines 2 chain hoists strained to budge.twice as long as ours in a 6 banger straight.  weighed close to 3 to 4X ours

[Young Ed]

We used to take sound old head gaskets,,,spray them with silver paint on both sides a couple times,,,and put them right back in.

 

Not this particular engine or application,,but a BIG diesel engines,,,none the less.  big enuf engines 2 chain hoists strained to budge.twice as long as ours in a 6 banger straight.  weighed close to 3 to 4X ours

 

Yes Dad and I did that same thing on a 52 plymouth that kept having sticky valves. I think we reused that gasket 2-3 times.

[40desoto]

I just took a head off of an engine that had never been fired up.  Copper gasket.  I can reuse it?

[Plymouthy Adams]

do you have a way to anneal it?

[40desoto]

Im too impatient to do all that..  maybe i can just throw it in the microwave?

[desoto1939]

Here is a list of McCord Head GAsket numbers

Chrysler/Desoto use the same from 1937-54 for the flat head 6

chrylser number 1324340 copper-asbestos McCord number 6210c

Chrysler number 1402222 steel-asbestos McCord Number 6210s

Victor number 1061c copper only no steel

 

Fitzgerald  0422c

 

Victor, McCord and Fitzgerald were the major manufacturers of Head Gaskets.  Will find Victor and McCord and Fitzgerald


Rich Hartung
desoto1939@aol.com

Edited November 27, 2013 by desoto1939

[greg g]

You need to get it to a dull red temp. about 700 to 725 degrees, so oxy acetylene torch probably the minimum, or you could probably get it done at a machine shop for not much $$.  However keep in mind that a copper gasket is just that a piece of copper, with no compressible material sandwiched between what may appear to be a copper looking material.  A a head gasket installation is only as good as the preparation to install, and the proper process to torque it down.  You must start with dead flat surfaces on both the head and the block.  Both need to be checked with a straight edge and a go no go feeler.  If it goes it and it's .002 or more than then it should be dealt with.  I assembled mine 20000 miles ago after a .040 shave and .010 of the deck with spray on copper stuff on the block side. Used a commonly available composite gasket.  My Comp ratio is in the 8.5 + area and I have experienced no issues.  I did use new pioneer brand bolts and chased all the threads before assembly. Did sequential torque of 30, 50, 70 pound feet, and then retorqued 2x after two full operating temp (170 degrees) cycles.

[Andydodge]

Copper or copper composite etc gaskets are fine on cast iron blocks & heads and the use of a spray whether its straight silver paint or a you beaut all singing, all dancing special gasket spray will help BUT don't use a copper gasket when there is an alloy head being used as the copper & alloy don't like each other that much and will react with each other.........the main thing is that the surfaces must be flat, no ifs or buts and torqued correctly in the correct manner and follow up torqueing must also be done.  

[Don Coatney]

Why silver paint? I have used what ever spray paint I have handy with no ill effects. The copper coat stufff may work but I dont feel it is worth the money when cheap spray paint works as well.