Go Fleiter Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I burned 3 cyl head gaskets in a few thousand mls. Now I´m doubtful of which to use: The oldest I had were copper sheated both sides with water and cylinderholes reinforced with copper (rings). I got some 2 yerars ago with steel reinforcements around cyl holes plus water holes, but with suspicious (Chinese?) base quality. Last month I got some from Victor Reinz USA with teflon on both sides plus copper around the cylinder holes. Water holes are without reinforcement. They seem to be top notch engineering and my mechanic likes these most. But recently , on e-bay I found offered the copper variety like my oldest. Any experience with blank ringless holes? Is that a disadvantage? Should I try to get the copper sheated? Are they more reliable? Thanks! Greetings from Düsseldorf! Go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think after that many gaskets in so few miles I'd be looking at something else besides the gasket. Have you checked the head and block to make sure they are flat? Making sure the bolts are torqued correctly? I believe I have a felpro gasket in mine 48 but I didn't put it in so I can't say for sure what it looked like. However its been in there for almost a decade and 17K miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatheadtim Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 You are probably doing this? But it is a must on these gaskets to spray the head and block with copper gasket sealer. Check block and head for warpage with a flat bar and good feeler gages. Inspect the old and new head gaskets closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Head gaskets should last longer than that. Should last the life of the engine. As others have stated, did you check that the head and block surfaces are flat, head not warped, surfaces not burned or damaged? Has the head been milled previously? In that case you would need to put washers under the bolt heads to prevent the bolts bottoming. Did you clean the bolt holes with compressed air and chase the threads with a bottoming tap? Are the head bolts in good condition, not stretched? If they are suspicious it is best to replace them. If all these points are seen to, you still are not finished. The head needs to be torqued down in stages, with bolts being tightened in the correct order. After running the engine , check the bolts again with a torque wrench while the engine is hot. Recheck after 100 miles. Check again after 500 miles. If any are loose after 500 miles replace them, they are stretching. Follow these steps and your head gasket should last indefinitely. Edited May 9, 2012 by Rusty O'Toole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Tighten head bolts in this order 23----- 17----- 11----- 5----- 2----- 8----- 14----- 20----- 26 22----- 16----- 10----- 4----- 1----- 7----- 13----- 19----- 25 24----- 18----- 12----- 6----- 3----- 9----- 15----- 21----- 27 Edited May 9, 2012 by Rusty O'Toole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claybill Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 at 65/75 lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 My book says 65 to 70 foot pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Tighten head bolts in this order 23----- 17----- 11----- 5----- 2----- 8----- 14----- 20----- 26 22----- 16----- 10----- 4----- 1----- 7----- 13----- 19----- 25 24----- 18----- 12----- 6----- 3----- 9----- 15----- 21----- 27 you've got an extra set of bolts at each end. only 21 for these heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 That's the Canadian version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 There were solid copper gaskets available mostly for marine usage. These are one sheet of solid copper and are thinner than the copper steel composite versions we are all used to. They were a felpro product and I had their part number somewhere but I can not locate it. they are no longer being produced but may still be around in marinas that dealt with inboard powered boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Those crafty Canadians! Making 27 head bolt flatheads- OMG:eek: Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Fleiter Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Head goes to planing next week, new bolts are there, the Teflon Victor Reinz have a small Felpro mark, I will use these. Thanks! Go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 But it is a must on these gaskets to spray the head and block with copper gasket sealer. I have never done that? Why is it a "must"? I have sometimes used what ever spray paint I have on hand and sometimes used no paint, installing the head gasket dry and never had a problem with sealing a head gasket as long as the head and block are planed smooth. Please explain why that is a "must"? Those crafty Canadians! Making 27 head bolt flatheads- OMG:eek:Bob Me thinks this rusty old tool man has found an eight banger head gasket profile:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 I copied the head bolt instructions out of my 1949-50-51-52 Chrysler Dodge DeSoto Plymouth Shop Manual, published by Chrysler Corporation of Canada Limited Windsor Ontario. WM4247. It refers to the eight cylinder engine but you can use the same instructions on your six cylinder. Just stop when you run out of bolts:) The solid copper gaskets are very durable and can be reused if you anneal them. Being thinner they also give a little higher compression. But your engine block and head must be "perfect" because they will not squish the way composition gaskets will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 And I have several Chrysler flathead eights with 27 head bolts! Man am I losing it! But then again I have never had to redo a head gasket in a straight eight in any of my cars- Guess thats why I didn't catch the 27 head bolt pattern. Rebuild a Chrysler eight once and they run for ever- at least mine do! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40desoto Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 So.... back to the original question. what head gasket is more reliable? copper? or non copper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grdpa's 50 Dodge Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 We used to take sound old head gaskets,,,spray them with silver paint on both sides a couple times,,,and put them right back in. Not this particular engine or application,,but a BIG diesel engines,,,none the less. big enuf engines 2 chain hoists strained to budge.twice as long as ours in a 6 banger straight. weighed close to 3 to 4X ours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 We used to take sound old head gaskets,,,spray them with silver paint on both sides a couple times,,,and put them right back in. Not this particular engine or application,,but a BIG diesel engines,,,none the less. big enuf engines 2 chain hoists strained to budge.twice as long as ours in a 6 banger straight. weighed close to 3 to 4X ours Yes Dad and I did that same thing on a 52 plymouth that kept having sticky valves. I think we reused that gasket 2-3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40desoto Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I just took a head off of an engine that had never been fired up. Copper gasket. I can reuse it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 do you have a way to anneal it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40desoto Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Im too impatient to do all that.. maybe i can just throw it in the microwave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Here is a list of McCord Head GAsket numbersChrysler/Desoto use the same from 1937-54 for the flat head 6chrylser number 1324340 copper-asbestos McCord number 6210cChrysler number 1402222 steel-asbestos McCord Number 6210sVictor number 1061c copper only no steel Fitzgerald 0422c Victor, McCord and Fitzgerald were the major manufacturers of Head Gaskets. Will find Victor and McCord and FitzgeraldRich Hartungdesoto1939@aol.com Edited November 27, 2013 by desoto1939 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 You need to get it to a dull red temp. about 700 to 725 degrees, so oxy acetylene torch probably the minimum, or you could probably get it done at a machine shop for not much $$. However keep in mind that a copper gasket is just that a piece of copper, with no compressible material sandwiched between what may appear to be a copper looking material. A a head gasket installation is only as good as the preparation to install, and the proper process to torque it down. You must start with dead flat surfaces on both the head and the block. Both need to be checked with a straight edge and a go no go feeler. If it goes it and it's .002 or more than then it should be dealt with. I assembled mine 20000 miles ago after a .040 shave and .010 of the deck with spray on copper stuff on the block side. Used a commonly available composite gasket. My Comp ratio is in the 8.5 + area and I have experienced no issues. I did use new pioneer brand bolts and chased all the threads before assembly. Did sequential torque of 30, 50, 70 pound feet, and then retorqued 2x after two full operating temp (170 degrees) cycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Copper or copper composite etc gaskets are fine on cast iron blocks & heads and the use of a spray whether its straight silver paint or a you beaut all singing, all dancing special gasket spray will help BUT don't use a copper gasket when there is an alloy head being used as the copper & alloy don't like each other that much and will react with each other.........the main thing is that the surfaces must be flat, no ifs or buts and torqued correctly in the correct manner and follow up torqueing must also be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Why silver paint? I have used what ever spray paint I have handy with no ill effects. The copper coat stufff may work but I dont feel it is worth the money when cheap spray paint works as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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