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Posted

ok, I've been having some side conversations with people and have further questions. And I whole heartedlty thank them for those conversations!

My service book says 5 pints, yet to fill to the botton of the fill plug it's over a gallon. Now THAT is a HUGE difference in volumes. Conventional wisdom says the fill plug level. The engineer in me says trust the book. Too much fluid isn't all THAT bad, except for the mess it creates. To little is horribly bad.

So I pose the following question: which is right, the book or the fill plug level?

Posted

On other trans ,I have found a second, lower plug that was the actual level indicator and the fill plug was simply that, the fill plug. Might be a bolt that gets removed that was drilled and tapped all the way through the case. I'm also inclined to believe the book but would need to find an alternative level indicator before discarding the fill plug as full.

By theory, the trans shouldn't need as much oil as the engine. The countershaft submegred in oil throws oil everywhere inside the case for lubing the upper mainshaft brgs whereas in an engine the idea is to keep the crankshaft out of the oil to reduce parasitic power loss.

Posted

while the empty cavity of the transmission housing is vast and 5 pints seems a small amount, the gears, shafts and other components when assembled will displace a good bit of the available internal cubic inches..the 5 pints will now go a long way..if you fill these old transmissions to the point the oil is just at flow from the fill hole..you will not have any issues..do not use HYPOID gear oil...

Posted
while the empty cavity of the transmission housing is vast and 5 pints seems a small amount, the gears, shafts and other components when assembled will displace a good bit of the available internal cubic inches..the 5 pints will now go a long way..if you fill these old transmissions to the point the oil is just at flow from the fill hole..you will not have any issues..do not use HYPOID gear oil...

why not hypoid?

and if I do that from the fill plug, it is over a gallon of fluid....which is 3+ pints more than the book says.

Posted (edited)

hypoid oil has modifiers for the abosulte shear pressure the ring and pinion sees..the tranny does not see this amount of shear plus the brass components within are not compatable with the additives..use regular80/90 gear oil...it is actually about the consistency of a good 50 weight but is still forumlated for the amount of shear the gears do see.

as for the fill level..back in the 70's when I was servicing cars at a garage..the rule of thumb on the tranny or differential for that matter was insert pinky to first joint and bend down..if touches any oil the level is substantial..if a bit low..top off to bottom of fill hole..as the first joint is approx 5/8 inch spread over the area inside at mid case would come closer to your stated fill level..have never really measured..cannot say for a fact..keep it between pinky depth and running out..no worries..

Edited by Tim Adams
Posted (edited)
hypoid oil has modifiers for the abosulte shear pressure the ring and pinion sees..the tranny does not see this amount of shear plus the brass components within are not compatable with the additives..use regular80/90 gear oil...it is actually about the consistency of a good 50 weight but is still forumlated for the amount of shear the gears do see.

as for the fill level..back in the 70's when I was servicing cars at a garage..the rule of thumb on the tranny or differential for that matter was insert pinky to first joint and bend down..if touches any oil the level is substantial..if a bit low..top off to bottom of fill hole..as the first joint is approx 5/8 inch spread over the area inside at mid case would come closer to your stated fill level..have never really measured..cannot say for a fact..keep it between pinky depth and running out..no worries..

great, not knowing any better I put hypoid in. Draining it out and refilling with regualr should be ok tho, and reduce the chance for any damage from the additives in the hypoid? No secondary plug either...

2011-04-28110810.jpg

Edited by ggdad1951
Posted

Non-synchro trans should mean next to none for brass. Only brass I can think of would be synchro rings. I'd say you're safe.

Posted

Mark,

That pic of your trans is interesting. The horizontal drain plug would indicate a syncro trans, and I am assuming that it's a 4 speed (correct?). However, the fill/level plug on yours is above the PTO plate. On the 4 speed syncro that I have it is in front of the PTO plate, and on my non-syncro 4 speed it is behind the plate. It would appear that your trans would have a higher level with the plug that high up.

PA250827.jpg

P1161576.jpg

Posted

Merle your 4spd sycnro one seems to have a depression where Mark has the plug. Perhaps the castings were setup for multiple drain plug locations? Mark do you have a depression where Merle's has the plug?

Posted
Merle your 4spd sycnro one seems to have a depression where Mark has the plug. Perhaps the castings were setup for multiple drain plug locations? Mark do you have a depression where Merle's has the plug?

let me slide the picture over a little...oh crap right, that don't work (honestly I tried...damn smart phones got me thinking that everything is like that)! I'll check when I get home.

Mark,

That pic of your trans is interesting. The horizontal drain plug would indicate a syncro trans, and I am assuming that it's a 4 speed (correct?). However, the fill/level plug on yours is above the PTO plate. On the 4 speed syncro that I have it is in front of the PTO plate, and on my non-syncro 4 speed it is behind the plate. It would appear that your trans would have a higher level with the plug that high up.

so with that knowledge...fill level still up to the plug? What the heck is my tranny? And yep, a 4 speed.

Posted

I did some research on this a while ago. I read somewhere that GL-4 gear oil is OK, but GL-5 is not. The latter has more additives (sulphur, etc) that might harm any brass/bronze metal inside the tranny.

I ran GL-4 for the last 15k miles on my 3-speed without any issues, with the oil level up to the fill plug. Them trannys are bullet proof. Thw 3-speed still worked perfectly when I removed it last month for replacement with the T5....now it's tucked away under my work bench.

Posted

just a BIG blank over there Ed...

now let's play "what's painted and what's plated" in the picture!

2011-04-28150857.jpg

Posted

While you don't have the depression you do have the same raised area that Merle has.

Posted

ok, I went to NAPA over lunch...no GL-4 that INS'T hypoid....any help guys? Who might carry the GL-4 non hypoid? ALL of NAPA's stock was hypoid.

Posted

If thats the case I've been running hypoid in my car and truck for about a decade each. They are both syncro trans and shift as well as they did when I got them.

Posted
ok, I went to NAPA over lunch...no GL-4 that INS'T hypoid....any help guys? Who might carry the GL-4 non hypoid? ALL of NAPA's stock was hypoid.

In the olden days the lube was called GO-90 as in Gear Oil 90 weight and it smells like fish. You might try a farm supply store as many tractors also use this oil in there differentials and transmissions.

Posted

checked NAPA, O'Riely, and MTS and no one seems to have a non-hypoid, SAE90 GL-4 gear oil...lots of SAE80w-90 GL-5 hypoid...what to do? Any other sources out there I'm missing? Am I trying to find something for no reason?

Posted

Amsoil does make a product that will work..Redline Oil also has s specific product..trouble with most big box store is that they are going to only stock the latest prodect and GL5 is supposed to be retro to the others..IF you are using it in a differential..the difference between the two basically as I read is that the GL5 has about double the additive for shear in Hypoid application..BUT Redline still carries the warning on their website to caution against use of hypoid in the trannies with yellow metal...remember it is the responisbility of the user of the product to make the final call on application and use..

Posted (edited)

The combination of possible higher sulpher content in the GL5 mixes AND oil temps over 250 degrees are all I could find for deteriorating brass synchros. Low corrosion GL5s are available and apparently a GL4/GL5 will have less sulpher and is acceptable as an alternative to GL4.

You might try an outboard motor dealer. I've heard GL4 is/was used in some lower units.

Tractor Supply, Fleet Farm, outdoor power equipment dealer?

Edited by Dave72dt
Posted (edited)

how about a gl-1 mineral gear oil from napa #65-201??

recommended oil to use in plymouth overdrives by borg warner.

no additives that hurt the guts of older trans.

just a thought. by the forgot to mention it's 90 wt.

:cool:

Edited by DJ194950
forgot some info
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

I've been using Coastal 80 -90 wt gear oil and trying to find non-hypoid...so I was at the John Deere dealer the other day and they had non-hypoid gear oil on the shelves.

My tranny is a leaky mess and requires continual topping off. Just another issue in the long list of things to get to.

I have a spare trans. but other than the horrible leaking, there's nothing wrong with the other one - is this Coastal oil going to kill it in the interm? Shoudl I be switching to the John Deere oil?

  • 4 weeks later...
Posted

Can I use this in both the transmission (Standard 3 speed) and the rear end?

Been searching the forum and the web for 2 weeks and now am more confused than ever. Or should I use the Severe Gear Synthetic Extreme Pressure (EP-Gear Lube 75w/90 that Amsoil has? Severe Gear® Synthetic Extreme Pressure (EP) Gear Lube 75W-90

Thanks

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