Very bad sound in engine...

[Don Coatney]

I think far too much unnecessary and basically unfocused speculation has gone into this problem. .

Sorry, I thought I was at least a little bit focused.

[Plymouthy Adams]

focus grasshopper...focus..that what makes this a forum..each has an input and free to express it..throw your idea amoung the dust and let the rain settle it in the end..

I think speculations have pretty much been covered..now we are all awaiting to see what the tear down will reveal...the head at minimum can be off in a few minutes time and surely will shed some great insight to the root cause..Chris, Jerry...get them hands dirty....lol

[oldodge41]

Ooh! I hate rap! I would not be surprised if it is indeed a broken piston or wrist pin rapping. I wouldn't run it anymore for fear of scoring a cylinder deeply. .............Tim

[bri12905]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be nasty or too critical either. I gave all of you who posted replies credit - perhaps incorrectly - for knowing from the symptoms that engine is toast. I can live with 'make-do' work even though I dislike the concept, but there is a limit - even with Chryco flatheads - to the miracles that can be performed.

Further to the comment that oil pressure can drop to 30 psi at idle and still be fine, I agree - as long as you don't try to do rings and/or valves on it without checking rod and main bearing clearances first. On the very odd occasion we found a worn oil pump to be the culprit for low hot oil pressure at idle, but basically the pumps are bullet proof and very long-lived.

We maintained taxi fleets using Dodges and Plymouths and also stretched Chryslers used as ambulnces. We regularly saw 350,000 miles on the taxis before complete engine overhaul and somewhat lesss on the ambulances.

We always believed - without scientific proof - that the taxis provided such long engine life because they were just shut down for oil changes and running repairs, but spent most of their lives at operating temperatures. The ambulances in contrast, often started up from dead cold and went to high speed almost immediately.

[T120]

Well in answer to your question,Chris..."Whaddaya all figure?.. That sort of invites speculation.I was interested in the vacuum reading just out of curiosity, 13-14 in Hg at 2200' and with your engine cold oil pressure somewhat normal,As an old grasshopper I would put money on Don's and Dodgeb4ya's long distance analysis (25 cents as I'm not much of a gambler).As Tim mentioned, be interested in what you find when you pull the head.I gather you are interested in only doing repairs as necessary (keeping reliability in mind) so I guess how far you go depends on what you feel comfortable with..

[Alshere59]

Bri

I think you will fit right in here welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience to share.

Looking forward to reading your future posts.

[55 Fargo]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be nasty or too critical either. I gave all of you who posted replies credit - perhaps incorrectly - for knowing from the symptoms that engine is toast. I can live with 'make-do' work even though I dislike the concept, but there is a limit - even with Chryco flatheads - to the miracles that can be performed.

Further to the comment that oil pressure can drop to 30 psi at idle and still be fine, I agree - as long as you don't try to do rings and/or valves on it without checking rod and main bearing clearances first. On the very odd occasion we found a worn oil pump to be the culprit for low hot oil pressure at idle, but basically the pumps are bullet proof and very long-lived.

We maintained taxi fleets using Dodges and Plymouths and also stretched Chryslers used as ambulnces. We regularly saw 350,000 miles on the taxis before complete engine overhaul and somewhat lesss on the ambulances.

We always believed - without scientific proof - that the taxis provided such long engine life because they were just shut down for oil changes and running repairs, but spent most of their lives at operating temperatures. The ambulances in contrast, often started up from dead cold and went to high speed almost immediately.

Hi, Taxis with that kind of mileage, now thats impressive.

These are great old engines, but there is a limit to everything rings,pistons or pins are broken there is a serious issue.

I know the spare engine I have was rebuilt with tag stating rebuilt using the Chrysler method, pistons .030 over, all bearings standard, so not sure if that means all new bearings, that were standard size,or the old ones being used again.....

[RobertKB]

Chris, I am thinking total rebuild here. If it's going to come apart for the first time in 64 years, might as well do it all and make it last another 64. It sounds from what you have said that the old girl is very tired. As mentioned by you when we met, it would be nice to keep the grungy looking exterior of the motor but I think it would be good to have it spic and span inside if it is coming apart anyway. There comes a time...............................

Edited April 26, 2011 by RobertKB

[PatS....]

Lets try this Chris

Boy, THAT sounded familiar:eek:...http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/psatchwill/1957%20Nash%20Rambler%20Custom/?action=view&current=MVI_0003.mp4

It's my 56 Nash Rambler last year.

Turned out to be a bent pushrod that had fallen off, leaving a valve remaining closed.

[Reg Evans]

Bri

I think you will fit right in here welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience to share.

Looking forward to reading your future posts.

Ditto

[RobertKB]

Ditto

Ditto on the ditto! Welcome to the forum by the way. It sounds like you have had a lot of hands-on-experience with these old girls!

Edited April 26, 2011 by RobertKB

[Joe Flanagan]

Chris, I couldn't make out from your post whether you had to be towed 250 miles home or if you were able to complete the drive.

[bamfordsgarage]

Well, this has been very interesting and informative. Thanks to everyone who posted. Having digested and thought about all this, I expect Don's prediction to be closest. And Tim's advice (Geez, just pull the head already) to be best.

Because we thought on Saturday that the engine was perhaps finished and then it cleared up by itself (good engines, these) I was naturally hoping the latest noise was just the same problem, louder. Nobody seems to agree or wants to lend me their magic wand. Some friends you are.

Yes, it would only take an hour to pull the head and see what's wrong. But the overhaul will take a lot longer and I do not want to start another project until I have the next three jobs out of the way. That will be early July. Even so, I might still take the lid off and see what's what then bolt it back up for the time being. We'll see.

I really enjoy how very original the car is and it's a hoot seeing peoples' reactions when they learn: 1. It has the original engine, 2. The engine has likely never been apart, and 3. We are driving from one end of the continent to the other. And back.

We all enjoy the hobby differently — I'm in the small minority that would rather drive a ratty original with an untouched engine than a shiny repaint with a fresh rebuild. My inclination has always been to get every last mile out of the car before an overhaul. Once (or, now that) it demands attention, I'll do it properly. But not blow any dough on engine paint.

_ _ _ _ _

Joe, we thought we were going to need a tow, but the noise cleared within a few miles and we were 55 all the way home. I was kinda hoping the current problem would settle out the same way...

bri12905, welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have a lot to contribute.

Don, it never occurred to me to pack along a head gasket until we were riding down to Tim's and you mentioned you had replaced yours twice.

Edited April 26, 2011 by bamfordsgarage

[Young Ed]

If you do pull the head and have a look don't be afraid to reuse the headgasket to keep the car mobile until July when you go back for the real deal.

[suntennis]

I had a sticking valve once and it did not make any sound other than it caused the engine to run a little rough. In addition, when the plug wires were pulled during idle for the two cylinders affected by the sticking valve, it had no effect on idle speed or smoothness. The sticking valve effected two cylinders via a common port and that the sticking valve caused compression loss. My two cents worth on your problem is that a valve spring broke.

[Greenbomb]

Even though you don't want to tear into it right now, it may be very helpful to at least pull the head to get a look see. It may show you what's wrong so you can be planning between now and when you do get after it, rather than being cold turkey then. You might try taking the valve covers off for a gander in there, too.

[PatS....]

Bri

I think you will fit right in here welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience to share.

Looking forward to reading your future posts.

Ditto here as well!

WELCOME!!!

[Joe Flanagan]

Chris, that's a relief. I was thinking you were a mere 250 miles from home and couldn't make it the rest of the way.

You had everyone tuning in every day for the latest on your trip. Now we all can't wait to see what's going on inside your engine.

[bamfordsgarage]

Joe, Green, Ed, Tim, Greg, you're quite right.

Yesterday I was having an attack of POA (Project Overload Anxiety). It's not like I can't take a couple hours to have a look and then bolt it back together for the time being. Not today, but real soon. Thanks.

[Don Coatney]

Don, it never occurred to me to pack along a head gasket until we were riding down to Tim's and you mentioned you had replaced yours twice.

Actually I have not removed my head sence the engine was rebuilt so the head gasket has never been replaced. However should it fail on a road trip this gasket is not something that can be picked up at any parts store. That is why I carry a spare.

I had a sticking valve once and it did not make any sound other than it caused the engine to run a little rough. In addition, when the plug wires were pulled during idle for the two cylinders affected by the sticking valve, it had no effect on idle speed or smoothness. The sticking valve effected two cylinders via a common port and that the sticking valve caused compression loss. My two cents worth on your problem is that a valve spring broke.

This is interesting. I did not know that a sticking valve in one cylinder could effect two cylinders via a common port and cause compression loss in the two cylinders. Can you better explain how this can happen?

[bamfordsgarage]

Don, I am obviously confused. I do remember you saying you carried a spare gasket, but maybe it was BillyAustin, who I also rode with, that had to replace a couple on the road.

[T120]

Chris,Hard to believe it's less than a week ago that you were near the 12000' elev.at Pikes Peak with the old Dodge and miles to go to reach home in Edmonton.I'll be reviewing your photos and account of your trip for some time..(I'm curious - exactly where were you packing the horseshoe on your trip?)

[bamfordsgarage]

...I'm curious - exactly where were you packing the horseshoe on your trip?

Well, I never did find a totally comfortable sitting position...

[Plymouthy Adams]

I went out and counted my horse shoes after the American/Canadian Challenge..still got all of mine..he must have gotten his horse shoe elsewhere..

to be fair to all...the game was tossed with a set of shoes taken from my grandfathers plow horses....real horse shoes...the last shod horse on that farm was 1967 and who knows how long these used shoes where handing on the rail in the barn before I snagged a set fo pitching.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Tim Adams

[suntennis]

Don--- You have a good question about how a valve in one cylinder can effect two cylinders. I do not have the answer since in my case the bad valve was number 6 cylinder exhaust valve. I did have adjacent cylinders on a new engine that were intermittently providing power as a result of a valve sticking because the engine builder left out one valve keeper.