desoto1939

The three pumps that Sniper showed are AC 588 pumps that were used from approx 1937 up into the mid 50's This is the same pump that is only 39 Desoto. When my old pump went bad i took off the pump from the engine and it still had the AC 588 metal parts tag attached to the pump. Even NAPA had these pumps but they wanted to know for what car I told them that this is the pump I needed and they had it in two days. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

Skrambler: I also do remember the big hill on the white field and how slippery it would get after a rain. I was such fun watchinh grown men fall on ther buts and then slide down the hill and laughing like little kids playing inthe mud as a child. But the best part is that they found get up at the bottom and do it all again. The little kids in all of us never leaves our body. I also remember al of the large tire tracks hole and people losing their boots and standing on one leg and trying to get the other boot back on. Those days of the mud have left but it was a big part of Hershey. I was camped out on the Chocolate field just across from Chocolate World. If you remember there was a large culvert and the field had a big dip inthe filed to funnel the water into the pipe drain. Well one Wednesday night it poured liquid sunshine and i woke up to hearing geese quacking inthe morning. i looked out of the trailer and three venders site had been flooded out and there was alake in the culvert area. These geese were just swimming around in the water and were as happy as could be. Those were the good old days along with the white field and the airport and the Green field were you could get some great deals. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

Skrambler: The price for a vendor spot at Hershey is $90 for a 10x20 spot. This entitles the vendor to setup on Monday, and sell items from Tuesday to Friday. Hershey has chnaged the show dates this year. The car show will be held on Friday and all venders must be off the parking lot by Friday Midnight. We have two National Desoto vendor spots located in the Orange field row OAD site number 7&8. Also look for the National desoto club Banner. Les Pesavento and I have been at this site for the past 5 years. I specialized inthe early Prewar cars and Les is more with some 29 and 46-48 Desotos. We welcome all members of theP15-d25 forum becasue we ae all MopAr guys. Several of the PF15-D25 members stopped by last year and I helped them out with their Sisson Chokes. Like any other major 4 day event yes the cost of the hotels are high because they have a captured crowd. About 15 years ago I had a hotel and it was a 4 day minimum at $125 per night and cost me $500. To reserve the same reservation for the next years event at Hershey they the hotel, required full payment in advance so another $500 out of pocket. Yes gas prices are up and the Pa turnpike has tolls but there are always costs to get to anythig that you feel is important. I feel that you have to budget for the trip and plan ahead. So when you see the prices at Hershey now you know why items cost what they do. Alot of ender are in the hole even before they sell one item. So figure it cost around $10 be day for the site plus hotel, gas and food. So it is expensive for a vedor. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.

same for my 39 Desoto with the three holes. Rich Hartung

Well I drove 2.5 hours from Philadelphia to Carlise on Friday morning. Had to sit in the regular traffic jam from the turnpike all the way into the center of town. If you do have a MoPar that is manufacturered prior to the mid 70-1980 then I would like to tell you from my first hand experience that do not waste your time attending. The cost to enter the grounds is $15 plus $10 parking. I walked the entire swap area. To note there was not one vender with any pre-post war and up to the 60s with any parts, not even any ignition parts such as point, cond, rotor or caps to fit our cars. I did find one MoPar flat head 6 water pump and this was for the years around 1937-48 but it was in rough shape. I have seen the decline in parts for our MoPar over the years and this was the worst. Lots of old used and some NOS high performance stuff. If you have a cuda, road runner GTX and similar then you will find items. So this is my last year to attend Chryslers at Carlise. I will save the costs and use that to go to Hershey in the Fall. I feel that you might even have better luck at a local swap meet for the early vintage items. Lots of nice cars on the show ground most earliest in Building T was a 1930 Desoto ruble seet coupe basically original, als a 37 Dodge sedan under one of the tents and a56 Desoto Ambulance-Herst. So baically pick your poison or save you money and yes even buy off of ebay at least you can do that from you home with out any travel fees. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

Yes on the older original style MoPar water pumps you had a graphite seal to seal the beaning and yes these would wear. So yes the Prestone radiator water seal would coat the seal. Now they pumps have been remade and they are using the sealed bearing that was also used in the Chysler 8 water pumps. But you still have the cast irn block, the brass radiator core and the brass thermostat. So what is the harm of putting in a pint of antirust agent that does have a waterpump lubricate chemical mixed in with the product. Also remember our cars do sit so to me an ounce of preention for around $2.00 per bottle, yes you saw the price, I can get these at this price is not going to break me in the cash register and so to pour $4 in the rad every fall is good insurance for me. I still have the original High Altitude honeycomb radiator in my 39 Desoto that is 83 years old so I plan on using the product as long as I own the car and ounce of prevention is worth the cost of even a new rad. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

If yyou go back in time all of the car manufacturers including Chrylser produced water pump Antirust chemical. The anti rust preventative is used to keep the antirusting agens active in your radiator and cooling system. Yes antifreeze has antirusting properties but as time goes on these breakdown and one day the AF is green when you look at it in your radiator and then a couple of days later it could be brown like a rust color. This istelling you that the antirusting agents have wornout and time to chnage the AF and flush the entire system. I have a local discount store that sells the Prestone water pump and antirusting agent in a bottle 11 oz. I use a canof this every fall in my 39 Desoto. It is a milky color and mixes well with the AF. When the fluid is circulating in the system the bearing and the propeller inside the Water pump is also getting coated with the chemical. So yes the bearing is getting lubricated, but if you have a zerk fitting on your pump then also put some boat propeller grease in the lub point to alsoprotest the seal. Napa did carry the product and it was made by GUNK also can find it on ebay This is the product that I use and I hae had the car for 35 years, part of my regular maintenance because of the cast iron block. Some think its snake oil but I have had my AF turn brown on a modern car so why take any chances for a few dollars, It can not hurt your car. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com

Another big sign of the hobby is the Auction Houses such as Mecum and Barrett-Jackson. Just look at allthe modern cars going across the line for auctin. You seldom see any vintage late 30,40,50 cars. And when you do and they are done to a great quality of workmanship the price that they sell for is very very low. But the buyers are paying for the modern hemic cars and trucks over the 75-150 K plus buyer fees of additional 10%. So now you have a fully restored vehicle that is a show car and now do you want to drive it on the road, basically no. with the price of gas for these high performance cars at $6 and + a gallon. So in the end they might just be looking at the cars in their garage and the early cars can be driven becasue they are not picture perfect cars and still have lots of fun. Yes the hobby is changing and with the advent of electric vehicles we all are inthe same sinking boat. So the options are to drie our cars now and have fun or sell them maybe at a loss or wait for a later sale of the car when the hobby has been handcuffed because of government and the car manufacturers telling us what they want us to purchase. even the Great AACA is not even pushing anything and their membership is getting less each year. The older members are dying and the younger guys are not joining AACA. They see no good reason to join the old mans club. Rich HArtung desoto1939@aol.com

I also agree about Chrysler at Carlise, a hit or miss on the older MoPar parts. The real next big event is Fall Carlis and then following week in October is Hershey the biggest Northeast event. But even at Hershey the early MoPar stuff is getting harder to find. If you plan on attending I have two sites inthe Orange field row OAD7&8 feel free to stop by and chat. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com

Tom: Do not be afraid to add comments espcially when you have also done several of these repairs. Ye most of us are as we would say Shade Tree Mechanic's and most of us are learning as we try to repair our cars. Input from someone else that has done the same repair is always valuable so feel free to make suggestions. I have learned a lot just be reading what other people have replied to questions and sometime I can pas that along to other owners. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

I have been going for over 20+ years but I have been noticing that the old 30,40,50 and 60 and 70 parts are not really showing up. It is more high performance items. Last year did not find anything of real importance for my 39 Desoto. Went to spring Carlise and only found one vender selling NOS points, condensors and some rotos from the 40-50's. Purchased what he had that fit my 39 Desoto. So basically the parts are not coming out and they are getting harder to find dealers with these parts. So if you find them at any local swapmeet then suggest you get what they have and stock pile the older items. I prefer Autolite equipment so that is my main product of choice becasue my car was originally equipted with the Autolite electrical items. I might go on Friday but not real sure. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com

Mark: i have heard mixed reviews regarding the paint quality from this company. If you have not sprayed a complete car and do not have the proper equipment currently I would suggest that you go onto a good quality Auto Paint supplier company and start to price out the required equipment. Check out Eastwood to get the cost of a good air compressor, oil and water filters, a very good gun, cleaning supplies air masks and all of the other items needed. Then create a spread sheet with the cost. Then determine if this is going to be the only car you will paint, figure in your time and effort on body preparation and or there the lack of experience and the list will go on and on. Of no disrespect to you but I have noted that you do have some trouble when reassembling items back on your car, So take that also in to the learning curve. Then go out and go to a good quality paint shop and get a price from them. Maybe one of their painters might take it on as a special project. Or even contact an Automitive VoTech School from some HS kids. This is a great learning expereince and the project is overseen by the VT teacher. Just the cost of the equipment will boggle your pocketbook. Rich Hartung Desoto199@aol.com

Contact Les Pesavento from the NDC. He is the 1929 Desoto model coordinator and can provide you that information. If you have a service manual onthe 29 Desoto it should state that in the manual. If you do not have a service manual then would suggest that you purchase one for the car. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

The hole is for the wire that supplies electrical current to the sisson choke. I have this same starter switch on my 39 Desoto. So a screw goes into the hole on the side of the switch and contact the copper plate then the wire then is run around the back of the block to the screw on the top of the sission choke. To answer Young ed, my 39 desoto has the foot pedal starter and when pushing the starter push rod the it makes the electrical contact to send an electrical charge to the sisson choke. rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com

So do you really need the power steering. When driving down the road the steering should be fine at 50 MPH. So really you only need the Power steering is when parking. So now you have to put on a second pully and a power steering unit on the 6 cylinder engine which will then drain down the HP of the truck which basically has a sweet spot of 50. Think about all the cost for what expense and for what real reason. Just my 25cents of input. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com

ok, so you want to run the v-8 cars but you have a 6 cylinder car. The question that I have is when you are with these guys at what highway speeds are they driving/ What year cars/trucks are they driving, what brake modifications and rear end modifications have they made to their cars/trucks. These are questions that should be answered. I have a 39 Desoto with the 25 inch block with the original stock carter carb E6N1 model. I just drove my 39 from Philadelphia pa to Altoona and back and averaged 15-17 MPG. This was all done via the PA turnpike and running around 50-53 MPH. I had no issues with trucks and or other car drivers. They cave me plenty of room and alot of people acknowledged the car as they went around me. My other friend was driving his 39 Desoto at 60 MPH so when he stopped for gas I was approx 5 minutes behind him. The time difference did not matter to me. My cars sweet spot is the 50-53 MPH mark. I did not want to be going 60-65 in an almost 85 year old car with the original braking system. So if you want to keep up with you friend then get a more modern car that is an antique. Enjoy the time and pleasure that we have wit these older nostalgic vehicles. So basically you are pedaling a tricycle but want it to be racing bike that is used in the Tour Defrance. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com

OK so everyone what to convert to 12v and Pentronics ignition. So I have a 1939 Desoto that stillhas the original dizzy - Autolite with the points and condenser and rotor. Last week we drove over 550 miles from Philadelphia area to Altoona PA for the National Desoto Car show and convention. I checked my standard old style ignition setup. I saw that my cap had some wear on the contacts, so put on a NOS dizzy cap with the brass contacts. Clean the points and set the gap with a tool called a SnapGap tool made it so simple to set the points. The contact does not have to be on the tip of the cam. Set the points at 20. installed the cap starte the engine let it come back to ide setting checked the dwell and I was at 35. the specs call for 35-38. so i left the setting just where is was set. We ran the Pa turnpike averaging 50-53 MPH all the way out and back. Averaged around 15-17 MPG with an old style ignition setup. So the old points and condensor setup has proven that they can be reliable and perform as expected. My tune up basically cost me approx $25 becsue I had the parts. Also cleaned the sparkplugs and when got home checked several and they had the gray color to them at the tip running Autolite A9 plugs. So why would I switch to electronic ign? i have owned the car for 35 years with the original ign components, go figure. With this tool I can adjust the points while the dizzy is inthe engine block and it took me approx 5-10 minutes max If you want more information contact me at Desoto1939@aol.com and i will explain how simple this took makes setting your point. Rich Hartung

When i was at spring carlise the White Post had a space and I was talking to their representative regarding the use of Dot 5 Silicone Brake fluid. He explained to me that his supplier of rubber parts does not guarantee the use of DOT 5 fluid in their reconditioned brake cylinder and mater cylinders. They are recommending Dot3/4. Long time ago WP did support silicone brake fluid, So their supplier of the internal rubber seals is the real issue not the leaving of the various components. Yes DOT 5 will gie you a softer pedal but at lest you know that the fluid willnot absorb water into the lines and since we donot drive these cars everyday that is why alot of owners switch to Dot 5. i hae had DOT 5 in my 39 Desoto for 30 Plus years. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

just added picture from the 2022 NDC Convention rich hartung

I was driving between 50-53 MPH on the average. I was fluctuating between 45-55 just to give the engine a change in speed and RPM's. We had anticipated to average around 50 mph, that is the sweet spot for my car my friend who also has a 39 Desoto just had new pistons put into his car and he was running around 55-60 and closer to 60. He was getting blue smoke out the tailpipe when letting off the accelerator and we think the oil might be from the valve guides. I average around 14-15 MPG. The old girl just turned the 100K mark as we left to attend the convention. She ran very well and i gave her a big kiss when we got home and thanked her for her service and making the entire round trip. Have to show some loe and affection to these old gals. They apprecite the love also gave my wife a big thanks and hug for going along with being the chase vehicle and putting up with my hobby. The wives are our backbone and also need to get recognized. Since he only had around 200 new miles of the pistons I suggested that he pull back on his speed because of the oil issue. He did not lose any oil pressure. I just thought that since he had new pistons and these were the Standard size piston that let the car breakin on a more steady speed instead of pushing the engine, but it was his car. When going down hill there was a great deal of blue smoke and you could really smell the oil buring when you were even 30 feet behind the car. i do know that he got home back to the Baltimore area without and other issue just the blue smoke. After getting the pictures sent to my email I will post some pictures of the tour of Flight 93 and the car Show. Rich Hartung

Just got back home fromt he NDC convention. Drove a total of 535 mile including in that mileage was also some of the driving tours. Went to the Flight 93 Crash site, a very humble experience. The National Park service did a presentation for us. I learned that just before the plane crashed the high jackers fliped the plane upside down so that the passengers could not get to them and the plane crashed nose first. The passengers all voted to try to take control of the plane. was able to listen to several of the phone calls that the passengers made back to their familes. This part of the tour put tears in everyone eyes. I will post some pitcure. Friday we did a driving tour to the Swaggert Car museum saw some real nice cars. Sat was the car show had 56 car on the show field. We had 3 1939 Desotos in the prewar class and all three took home trophies of 1,2 and 3rd. I was awarded a 3rd place. We drove out to Altoon a via the Pa Turnpike from Valley Forge to Bedford and then up I99 to Altoona. I did the calculation and we average around 14 MPG not bad for an 83 year old car and climbing several steep inclines. Some of the older cars including the cars into the 1950 were experiencing bad vapor lock issues. along with some parking lot tuneups and adjustments. I alwasy primed my carb via my electric fuel pump prior to always starting. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com I will post pictures from the convention

every fall i pour in an 11 oz of Prestone radiator anti-rusting agent. It is white in color and it keeps the antirust properties of the antifreeze anti-rusting agents up to protect the engine block and also lubricate the water pump. I remember as a kid my dad would do that every year. Also if you know your MoPar chemical products they sold a can of that at the dealerships and a lot of guys collect these older cans. But now it is in plastic bottles cost around $5 for the bottle, cheap insurance for your radiator. When the antifreeze turns brown in your car then they AF has lost the anti-rusting agents and has broken down and then a flush of the engine block is required. So every couple of years I change out the AF and install the old good ORIGINAL GREEN AF and not the Extended version of AF. I had spoken to a tech rep from Prestone and he informed me that we should only use the old standard GREN AF in our old cast iron blocks. Rich Hartung

Well on Wednesday i will be driving my 39 Desoto out to Altoona, PA to attend the National Desoto Convention and car show. I will be also meeting up with my good friend that also has a 39 Desoto and we are going to go as a caravan. We will have modern Chase cars. He just had a top-end rebuild on his 39 over the winter months and has been driving the car to break n the 6 new cylinders. We plan on traveling around 50 MPH Both of our cars are 4 door sedan and we do not have overdrive so 50 is our sweet spot for our cars. Hope to get around 12 mpg but will get what we get. The gas price onthe PA turnpike is averaging around $5.25. We decided the PA Turnpike is our best route since it is a two lane road and has service plazas approx every 30-50 miles apart, also has large shoulders. We are going to meetup at a reststop that is located near Carlise,PA. The turnpike gets less traffic after the Harrisburg and Carlise area so we can travel safely on the right lane. We figure approx 5 hours travel time approx distance is 225 miles. Will post pictures of the convention and car show. They have 60 cars registered for the car show. I will be presenting two seminars during the week, the topics are headlights and lens from 1929-61 and also on presentation on the factory Miller tools which will highlight the Miller MT19 Brake shoe Adjusting tool and then the Trubrake tool that was used to trim down the high spot on each brakeshoe lining. Wish us luck for both trips. So if anyone is in the area of Altoona,PA this week come checkout the Convention it is held at the Grand Hotel in Altoona jus off of Exit 31 on I99. Rich HArtung

yes a 12v timing light will work on our cars. I have a sears timing light that is 12v. Yes the light will be alittle timer but you can time your car with the 12 volt timing light. even thought your rotor is pointing at 7 oclock check to where that specific wire is routed to which spark plug. If is is going to a different plug other than number 1 then you will at least have an idea if the pully slipped or the indexing of the oilpump is off and not set to number. Mechanics have over the years move sparkplug wires to compensate for wrong indexed oilpump orientation to the distributor. So the other question is does you engine just crank or are you gettingit to fire up and run, or if running it is rough or is it smooth? remember that Chrysle did all of us a big favor when they designed their distributor shaft. Instead of having a gear driven system they designed their with a slot and tab system. A slot in the oilpump and then corresponding tab on the dizzy end. So either you get the tab and slot to lineup and match, but with this system you are either right in the correct position or you can be 180 degress off. If the car is not starting then it might be that the dizzy shaft needs to be rotated 180 degrees and then insert the dizzy into the block. Then check where your firing order is and make adjustments.. When removing the dizzy make a mark on the engine block and the dizzy body as a reference point so that you are going back in the same position that you removed it. Also make a make to indicate the poisition of the rotor. These two small reference points will solve you a lot of time. Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

Thanks planning to drive out to Altoona from valley forge PA approx 225 miles each direction. Rich Hartung