Hot rods & resto-mods

[Loren]

When I was young and dumb ( friends tell me I may not be young anymore but not much else has changed ) I used to feel bad when someone stuffed a V8 in an old car.

Even though I lived for 30+ years in Northern Nevada, I never once bothered with Hot August Nights. Every nice old car had a Chevy V8 which was nothing I cared to see.

Well I am changing my tune. Took long enough I suppose. I now love hot rods & resto-mods!

You see the folks that build them usually have some great stuff to sell so they can pay for their new V8!

And you can get some great deals.

In the last couple of months I scored a 50 Chrysler Windsor chassis which yielded 12 inch brakes, a 3/4 inch front sway bar and a set of wheels ( wider by about an inch and a half ).
I haven’t done the measurements yet but the lower front A-arms have the spring plates on the bottom, so you could lower the front if you used stock springs.

This came from a guy who is putting a Dakota frame under his car with a V8.

Yesterday I scored a very nice 230 engine with an Edgy head, Thickstun manifold, Stromberg carbs, rebuilt damper, T5 adaptor ( which I will never use as I prefer an Overdrive ) Reds headers and boxes of parts. This came from a guy who is putting a Chevy V8 in his pre-war Plymouth. 
I love the charm of my two flathead Plymouths, I always have. Putting a V8 in one just doesn’t fit with how I enjoy them.

However, I no longer look down on what other folks do with their’s. Now I get excited by their engineering and craftsmanship. I am no engineer but I appreciate those who are.

Are we in any danger of “running out of stock unmolested” cars? Probably not in my lifetime.

[Eneto-55]

Yes, for the preservationist it can be a "bitter-sweet moment" - get the now un-wanted parts to complete or improve one's own vehicle, while "mourning the loss" of another "original".

[andyd]

Well, as a hotrodder let me reply.....lol..........at 17yrs old & still at school I bought my 1940 Dodge 4dr Sedan in 1971 for $15.00, it was complete down to the hubcaps, owners manual & 6weeks registration but a non goer due to burnt ignition wires.....got it towed home, decided to restore it, over 18mths & my 1st well paying job I had the engine gearbox, diff, brakes all restored then the engine decided to leak & I pulled the sump & rear main & discovered swarf still in the sump and scored bearings.........severe dose of the shits occured so I decided to "hot rod" the car.......bought a 1962 Oz Chrysler Royal & installed its 313 Poly auto, diff etc and over the ensueing couple of years a rack & pinion, 4 wheel disc brakes, repaint, widened  rear fenders, etc etc, etc.....sold off all the stock bits and what you see is what the car has been since essentially 1973.....a Hotrod........upsets the restorers but its my car, I've had it for 52 years now and I even get the odd grudgingly positive comment from those restorers who poo-pooed me and the car......BTW Loren.......that T5 adaptor that came with your recent purchase offers the ability to bolt a T5 OVERDRIVE gearbox without all the hassles of solenoids and electrical crap that accompanies the stock mopar overdrive gearboxes......

........anyway.........heres a couple of pics of the ol' brown *******(1971 Chrysler Mahogany Metallic)...the 1st couple of pics shows the 1940 Dodge Coupe I'd pulled apart and originally bought the 4dr sedan to use as a parts car for, then a pic showing the Dodge on its 1st trip with the V8 in 1973 then a pic showing the rear fenders getting a 2" widening piece and a recent pic of the car & engine bay......regards from Oztralia......Andy Douglas     

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have more than once made mention that the purist do look down their noses at the resto or rod builder while all the time not realizing if not for them, they would not have the pieces to maintain their cars in the original configuration.   Can't save them all and many feels cutting up and parting out a car is blasphemy.  Well, they are welcome to buy the heap and do the work but then that is not going to happen either.   Talk is often fast and cheap.  I went to look at a car last weekend.....picture and description made it a promising car.  That is where it screeched to a halt.  By looking at the lower medal, unibody frame...I think the roof was all that was keeping it from folding...but man it sure looked good on the outside.   Oh, it could be saved for sure, just not economically.  Perfect glass turned out to be windshield with perfect round holes...would be a nightmare finding a glass I would think.  But, I did go look thus I am content on the pass.  

Edited November 9 by Plymouthy Adams

[Loren]

Please don’t think I still get upset about hot rods. I’ve out grown that.

The hot rod guys love really nice paint and chrome.

Their cars look fantastic! But the fact is, they were never built that nice even by accident when they brand new.

I’ve had the pleasure of closely inspecting genuine “original” Model T Fords. Let me tell you they were just awful!

However original Model Ts are extremely rare, they all have been repainted with modern paint and if the owner repaints the car they usually make the body parts fit right.

Henry never made them that nice and if he ever saw one that was perfect, he would be mystified how that happened. lol

In my miss spent youth I was a dealer mechanic. My Plymouths follow the formula of what a dealer mechanic would drive back in the day.

If I can find an improvement from another MoPar vehicle that a dealer mechanic would know about, my car will have it.

I have a Model A that the previous owner installed a T5 in. I really don’t like it. I am changing it to a 39 V8 gearbox with a torque tube mounted R10 Overdrive.

As far as the wiring and switches and solenoids go….well a dealer mechanic would have an Overdrive that worked as designed.

I appreciate the charm of the 49 to 52 Plymouths. I don’t want to get too far away from that charm. I think the Overdrive does nothing to diminish that charm.

That’s my formula and while I like it, no one else has to like it. In fact I like the idea that most folks would think my car is dead stock.

It’s all about fun and enjoyment.

[FarmerJon]

I started with zero interest in stock cars, wanted to hotrod the world. As I saw and owned more cars, I became interested in traditional hot rodding, which I feel better preserves the charm of the old cars, instead of turning them into a 1990s minivan.

Even looking at '70s+ '80s vehicles, I like upholstery and accessories that match the style and age of the car. Of course they need to be faster, but only to the point to make them fun to drive, because no matter what, they will never actually be fast. 

 

If a guy wants a fast car, with all the modern amenities, just go get a mortgage  on a new Challenger/Mustang/camaro etc with the performance package, it will be cheaper in the long run and you will actually get to drive it, instead of it languishing in the garage for decades being built.

 

[48ply1stcar]

A few years ago I went to a car show that I had gone to a few times.  A 48 Plymouth that was pretty original, but this time his hood was closed. when he opened the hood for me he had cut the frame about mid engine and slide a Dakota frame over it or in it.  So now he had a 318, power steering brakes and AC,  From the inside of the car the only thing that you could see was two small AC vents under the dash.  Had I seen that when I started to work on my car I would have gone that way.  My car is my $75 High School Car, in 1968.  In 1995, five years after retiring from the Army I started the never ending repairing of a old car.

[Adam H P15 D30]

I hotrod everything I touch.  Nothing is safe from the torch in my garage...

But, I am having second thoughts about swapping the 440 into my 49 so it is safe for now...

[dodge lancer]

I agree 200 % percent keep it all mopar i'm all mopar and won't ever change !!!

[Pep48]

I love "resto-mods". Besides my P15,  I have one:

1950 Ford business coup

350 SB Chevy...Racing cam, B&M 271 Blower pushing 300+HP, Datsun rack & pinion steering, 74 Maverick rear, Turbo 400, AC/ PS, Power brakes.

 

Back in the day we would call this a Hot Rod (the term Street Rod was never used).

"Patina" was called Rust

 Rat Rod was called a Jalopy.

Engines were called "Mills"

Auto transmissions were called "Slush-boxes"

...Now I feel really old

 

[andyd]

Actually the "street rod" term was even used in the 1950's to differentiate from the speedway/dirt track "hot rods".....but no one drove their car with rust etc and called it finished.......it was always a work in progress......lol.....see my pic of my Dodge with the partially finished widened rear fenders........before a thin skim of "bog" & paint.....andyd

[jclars]

Wow!  Thanks for this post Loren!  I was just now revisiting this site with the intent of measuring the temperature for doing a resto-mod on my 50 Plymouth Business Coupe.  In fact, if not for this thread, I probably would have posted a request for permission to establish a build thread for my project.  I may still have to after you hear what I am up to.  However, let me tell you that I usually try to make every build reversible.  No major cutting that can't be repaired back to accept the original parts.  That said, I have gotten such performance and comfort improvements from my builds, that I end up driving them more, and would never go back!  

 

Anyway, it seems as if there is a good mix of everyone here, and no need to visit posts you don't agree with I suppose.  I just don't want to get into a build thread to be shown the back exit door.  That happened on the HAMB when I took a 56 Ford F100 (purchased in pieces, no less) and started putting independent suspension on it.  When I finally did a traditional hot rod (29 Model A coupe with flathead V8) I never rejoined their forum.  (Not that I didn't take advantage of their knowledge base, mind you!)

 

So with that all said, I will start a build thread for my 50 Plymouth at two sites.  This one. 

 

And the DIYelectriccar forum.   😁

 

John

[Loren]

Hi John!

Hot rodding seems to be very human.

Everybody has their own take on it. Mostly we try to recreate our youth. When I got into Plymouths (49-54) they were called “Transportation Cars” and were available as needed for a standard price of $150. Out of high school I got a new car and over time it became my weekend race car, so I needed something more reliable. Thus I got a 49 Special Deluxe Club Coupe for $150. I could afford it and as long as I didn’t abuse it, I knew it would serve me forever.

Now days old Plymouths are not $150 and they have decades more wear on them. So sometimes they need to have lots of deferred work done on them.

Back in the 60s & 70s you never did any work on one. You got another one. It’s the American way that if you have to work on it, you want to make it better.

I am caught up in that mode right now.

I started off with a noisy throwout bearing, which became an Overdrive transmission with a new T.O. bearing that’s noisy, which became an Overdrive transmission with a 1940 gear set and an American made NOS throw bearing.

You get the idea.

It’s a fun thing that brings me joy. 
I am realistic, at my age I am not “restoring” this car. That’s too big a project. I am just having fun.

 

[Eneto-55]

On 11/14/2024 at 8:26 PM, jclars said:

... I usually try to make every build reversible.  No major cutting that can't be repaired back to accept the original parts. 

....

John

That's been my mind-set as well.  But I got my 46 back when the the federal speed limit was 55, and who would have thought that it would be changed back?  (I started driving before that change to 55 MPH, but I don't recall when it was instituted.)

 

But I'm becoming more and more challenged on that idea that it should be reversible (to be able to go back to strict stock).  It already wasn't original, as I got a 55 model 230 engine with it (the original block was not included).  But here's where it relates to the speed limit.  Not really related to my own top speed, but back then there was still such a thing as "the wide open highway" (without traveling hundreds of miles to get there).  So I start thinking more about turn-signals, because how many drivers on the roads today know about hand signals?  And the tail lights and the single brake light aren't very bright.  So now I'm thinking of designing a custom combined tail/brake/turn/backup light bezel that would look as much like the original as possible (to still not look out of place), but one that would allow for an actual reflector inside of it. (There's a shop near here that does aluminum casting, some guys I have known for 10 years or more.)  To do that w/o having it stick way out in the back like a "premature Forward Look light assembly" the reflector needs to extend into the trunk compartment, which means cutting larger holes in the rear quarter.  (Not that I don't like the Forward Look MoPars, but those are two different design concepts.  A car's lines have got to 'flow' for me to like the appearance.)

[Adam H P15 D30]

On 11/14/2024 at 5:26 PM, jclars said:

Wow!  Thanks for this post Loren!  I was just now revisiting this site with the intent of measuring the temperature for doing a resto-mod on my 50 Plymouth Business Coupe.  In fact, if not for this thread, I probably would have posted a request for permission to establish a build thread for my project.  I may still have to after you hear what I am up to.  However, let me tell you that I usually try to make every build reversible.  No major cutting that can't be repaired back to accept the original parts.  That said, I have gotten such performance and comfort improvements from my builds, that I end up driving them more, and would never go back!  

 

Anyway, it seems as if there is a good mix of everyone here, and no need to visit posts you don't agree with I suppose.  I just don't want to get into a build thread to be shown the back exit door.  That happened on the HAMB when I took a 56 Ford F100 (purchased in pieces, no less) and started putting independent suspension on it.  When I finally did a traditional hot rod (29 Model A coupe with flathead V8) I never rejoined their forum.  (Not that I didn't take advantage of their knowledge base, mind you!)

 

So with that all said, I will start a build thread for my 50 Plymouth at two sites.  This one. 

 

And the DIYelectriccar forum.   😁

 

John

Yeah, I got busted at the HAMB for my Mustang II in my 56 F100...

The title of this forum explicitly includes modified vehicles so don't worry about getting shown the door.

[Dan Hiebert]

I appreciate the work people put into their cars regardless of automotive genre.  I prefer to keep mine as original as possible as long as we can drive and enjoy the car(s).  When we first got our D24 I was all about "all original" but evolved from that when it hampered our enjoyment of the car.  I enjoy working on them just as much as using them, but not when it involves frustration because original may be close to impossible by my means.  I'm not above putting a newer driveline in something, the only burr in my undies is to keep the brand the same, Chevy in a Chevy, Ford in a Ford, Mopar in a Mopar, etc.

[Sniper]

My Philosophy is that it's your car do with it as you see fit. If keeping it at all original is your thing I've had it brother. If you've got a 650 horsepower big block Chevy you want to stick in there go for it. As long as I don't have to pay the bill lol

[Loren]

What has always bugged me about engine swaps is it seems like there is no other engine in the world except a small block Chevy.

It just seemed to me there was no imagination used when selecting them. However I am getting over that in my old age.

Why not swap something like a Lexus V8? There's lots of them in wrecking yards and they are cheap because they just don't break and the market for them is slim.

If I was to swap an engine it might be a Diesel. Plymouth experimented with Diesels ( Perkins ).

I think I would use a Nissan SD6-33T engine from an IH Scout ( 1980 ). Since Chrysler was the importer of UD Nissan Trucks and engines at the time the valve cover even says "Chrysler Nissan" on it! 

If that's too run of the mill how about a real exotic?

The V8 engine out of a Daimler SP 250? The ugliest sports car ever made had a small Hemi V8 which kind of goes with the MoPar theme.

Maybe when AI becomes SOP one could try out the exotic combinations without spending much money.

Bill Harrah had plenty of money to burn and when a Ferrari was wrecked ( I don't know if it was his or not ) He had the engine installed in a Jeep Wagoneer!

If I was a friend of his with his kind of money, I would have bought a Wagoneer and had a 427 Ford installed, then challenge him to a race! Wagoneer to Wagoneer Mono a Mono. lol

In a prefect world they would never let me get close to his kind of money because chaos would ensue! lol

After all my years and all the cars I've worked on, I still think the body on frame MoPars were pretty damn good.

Good enough to be the basis of somebody's dreams.

[jclars]

That 56 Ford F100 that got me kicked out of the HAMB?  It has a 3.8L Super Charged V-6 from the Ford Thunderbird Super Coupe.  Including automatic transmission and 8.8 IRS.  Interior also took advantage of many super coupe conveniences.  I added AC before my Rte 66 trip using the original compressor and a look-alike interior blower cabinet.

 

It all ended up looking like factory.  Almost.

[Sniper]

I always thought HAMB was a free for all, why did they boot you?

[Plymouthy Adams]

to new an engine........they ban what they don't understand I would guess.....NOT TRUE but they do have a cut off date...

[jclars]

They didn't wait to see what engine was coming!

 

As mentioned on another post herein and further confirmed by another forum member, The IRS and especially the Jaguar IFS were over the line.  I couldn't stick around to see what they might say about the other things yet to come!  (how about an ECU?) Apparently I was exceeding the parameters of what they considered a "traditional" hot rod.  

 

There was a bit of a bru-ha-ha over it, as the Jag XJ6 IFS was quite a popular swap out for leaf springs on the F series of Ford Pick-up.  A couple of quick notches in the Jag sub frame and it slipped right onto the F100 frame.  They relented and saved all the valuable how-to info on a sub forum.   It was actually initiated by a hot rodder in New Zealand.  Maybe that was their problem.

Edited November 19 by jclars

[Sniper]

You remember The High and Mighty?

 

 

It had a Jag inspired rear end.

 

https://www.hotrod.com/features/ram-rod/

 

 

[jclars]

Whoa!  A business coupe gasser!

[Eneto-55]

I'm a lot more open to changes now than I used to be, but I'm reminded of what Tevya (in Fiddler on the Roof) says when his youngest daughter marries a Russian Orthodox guy.  For the older daughters, he bent his Jewish traditions to increasing degrees, out of love for his girls, and a changing attitude toward romantic love itself.  He went though his process of "On the one hand", and "On the other hand" wrangling with himself, but in that last case, he ended with "There IS no other hand!" It all just went too far.  That's where I am with some really drastic changes to antique vehicles.  Others can do it, fine by me - It's their vehicle, but for myself - my own vehicle - "There is no other hand." (Now if someone builds a complete custom body, I'm "all eyes", watching with interest and intrigue.)

Edited November 19 by Eneto-55