how do you lubricate this 41 alternator?

[GTfastbacker]

how do you lubricate this alternator? the manual just says to remove the front and back covers? the front doesn't make sense, there's an oil nipple. and under the belt at the back are the brushes? I'm confused.

 

Thank you

Joe

 

[RobertKB]

That’s a generator, not an alternator. There’s a hole near the very back of the generator. It should have an oil filler (nipple) like the one at the front. 

[Los_Control]

You can see the hole in your photo, here is my generator and can see the grease cap in it.

 

 

[GTfastbacker]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

You can see the hole in your photo, here is my generator and can see the grease cap in it.

 

 

 

Maybe it’s broken off?

Thank you. Will investigate this.

 

Joe

[Los_Control]

I'm sure you realize this .... the brushes are there but the end of the shaft fits into the back of the case riding on a bushing .... thats what you are oiling.

 

I'm not certain what I would do in this case, I would ask for advice .... my point is the open hole is allowing dirt & grit get into the bushing.

I would feel better if I flushed it out some way .... my first thought is WD40, because it is a decent cleaner and cheap enough to use to flush it out.

Then I wonder if brake clean would be better because it evaporates so quickly. ...... I would want others opinion on what to do.

 

I'm leaning towards brake clean because would not want to get WD40 on the brushes. Brake clean evaporates.

Either way, even if I had to whittle a plug out of a tree branch from the ground ... I would want to plug it til permanent fix is made.

 

Probably been like that for years and who knows if any damage has occurred .... Knowing it was like that I would spend 5 minute on it and plug it.

[greg g]

After cleaning and re oiling with light machine oil, I would think a bit of a wheel bearing grease thumbed into the hole would be sufficient to keep contaminants out.  2x times service per year should keep things in good shape for a non daily driver application. 

 

[Sniper]

You know, you can buy oiling cups from McMaster-Carr.

 

Not even close to cheap though, lol. $30.00 for one 😯

 

 

[andyd]

I would try and clean the area around the hole and inside it even just using a Q tip with a little wd40 or similar to check if there is the remains of the oil filler cap still in the hole.....if so not sure whether they screw in or a press fit but to remove any oil filler remains I'd use an Ezy Out .......once you know that the hole is not blocked by anything & is clean then I'd check with the local engineering, bearing or machine shop to see if they may have an oil filler.........once the hole is clean then even dropping a couple of drops of a light oil like Greg G mentions or press some grease in the hole with a fingertip, clean up around the hole & use a piece of tape over the hole until you can find an oil filler......andyd  

[9 foot box]

   Your generator is different from what I have. I don’t have the screw on end cap. I looked for a service manual for you and found one for $38.60 on eBay. It was the only one that showed a few pictures. Most reprints have bad picture quality. Shipping to Germany is another $35. A Service Manual is essential to the maintenance of your car. It will have the information needed for repairs, adjustments, maintenance and troubleshooting. I can’t guarantee if the pictures are a bait and switch, but that’s the  service manual I would buy, if you find the same post. It does say almost gone. Rick D.

[RobertKB]

Surely some forum member has got a spare filler cup on an old generator only good for parts. The filler cup is a pressed fit. Could be sent to Germany in an envelope for cheap. I’m going to check my supply but not sure if I have one or not. 

Edited July 18 by RobertKB

[Roofus]

Le petit capot contient une réserve d'huile et une mèche qui lubrifie la bague, trouvez l'orifice de remplissage

 

Edited July 18 by Roofus

[GTfastbacker]

3 hours ago, Roofus said:

Le petit capot contient une réserve d'huile et une mèche qui lubrifie la bague, trouvez l'orifice de remplissage

 

 

Merci beaucoup!

 

 

[Dan Hiebert]

I have the same "hole" on my generator.  It is where the oil cup used to be.  Before I had the original and as yet untouched generator on our car rebuilt, it had that oil cup.  The rebuilder replaced the rear bearing with one of those "lifetime" lubricated thingys, and that hole how has a sealing cap in it - same as yours.  Come to think of it, I don't recall if just the bearing was replaced, or if they replaced the whole rear cover.  I have not lubricated it since it was rebuilt in 1995, and I have had no issues. 

 

In Roofus' post, the very end cap has a spring cover (not an oil cup) over an oiling hole, I can't see if yours has that or not.  Mine does not.

Edited July 18 by Dan Hiebert

[GTfastbacker]

I examined it today. The old oil hole is closed with a plug. After I unscrewed the cover, there was a lot of old, hard, copper-colored stuff inside. At first I assumed that the bearing had dissolved, but the stuff is too homogeneous for that. Oh, I now think that someone put copper paste in it. How would you recommend proceeding?

[9 foot box]

   From my P15 Service Manual. You need a piece of felt like material to soak up the oil to be a wick.

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, GTfastbacker said:

How would you recommend proceeding?

Really depends on your goals for the car in the future.

If you want a daily driver I would replace it with a alternator. 12V neg ground

If you want it totally stock, I would disassemble the generator to clean it, install new brushes if needed, deal with bushings or bearings .... then run it.

 

Me I just tossed mine out and installed a Chevrolet 12V alternator I can purchase from any local auto parts store ..... I have to install new wiring anyways .... just makes sense to me to install something I want and not beat my head against a wall installing something I do not want.

 

If you want original, the wall is all yours.

[9 foot box]

   There is a You Tube series by Steve Blancard. “Autolite GDZ4817A Generator Repair”. His 8th video shows the end plate and how capillary action of the oil in the small reservoir lubricates the bushing and shaft. If you find a material that will suffice as a wick, pull the top plug and insert it dry through to the reservoir, soak it with oil and put the plug back in. I was mistaken as to what generators that I have. Here’s two that show the wick. McMaster Carr sells wick material, but you have to buy 5 feet of it @ $3 and change a foot, depending on size. You only need about 2”. An oiling cap like the one on the front won’t work with that style end plate. An other option is to replace the bushing with an oilite style bushing that has been soaked in oil. The bushing probably needs replaced anyway, because it’s been run dry. That’s your copper residue. It will eventually ground the armature to to the field coils and you will need a new generator or change to an alternator. I like to Keep It Simple Sometimes and do preventive maintenance before it fails.

[GTfastbacker]

5 hours ago, 9 foot box said:

   There is a You Tube series by Steve Blancard. “Autolite GDZ4817A Generator Repair”. His 8th video shows the end plate and how capillary action of the oil in the small reservoir lubricates the bushing and shaft. If you find a material that will suffice as a wick, pull the top plug and insert it dry through to the reservoir, soak it with oil and put the plug back in. I was mistaken as to what generators that I have. Here’s two that show the wick. McMaster Carr sells wick material, but you have to buy 5 feet of it @ $3 and change a foot, depending on size. You only need about 2”. An oiling cap like the one on the front won’t work with that style end plate. An other option is to replace the bushing with an oilite style bushing that has been soaked in oil. The bushing probably needs replaced anyway, because it’s been run dry. That’s your copper residue. It will eventually ground the armature to to the field coils and you will need a new generator or change to an alternator. I like to Keep It Simple Sometimes and do preventive maintenance before it fails.

 

Thank you. I should go this way. the one problem can be to source these copper bushing?

Joe

 

 

[Sniper]

Oilite bushings are not copper, they are an oil impregnated sintered bronze bushing.  They are not hard to source, at least here in the states. 

 

https://oilite.com/catalog-listing-oilite-sleeves

 

Looks like they do have a distributor in Germany,

[GTfastbacker]

45 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Oilite bushings are not copper, they are an oil impregnated sintered bronze bushing.  They are not hard to source, at least here in the states. 

 

https://oilite.com/catalog-listing-oilite-sleeves

 

Looks like they do have a distributor in Germany,

 

When I think of Oi! I always think of the punks from the island. I didn't know that they also made bushings lol

Thanks for the tip!!!!

[Roofus]

On 19/07/2024 at 12:48, GTfastbacker said:

 

Merci. Je devrais aller par là. le seul problème peut être de se procurer ces bagues en cuivre ?

Joe

 

 

I took that

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/173814069893

[GTfastbacker]

On 7/19/2024 at 7:08 AM, 9 foot box said:

   There is a You Tube series by Steve Blancard. “Autolite GDZ4817A Generator Repair”. His 8th video shows the end plate and how capillary action of the oil in the small reservoir lubricates the bushing and shaft. If you find a material that will suffice as a wick, pull the top plug and insert it dry through to the reservoir, soak it with oil and put the plug back in. I was mistaken as to what generators that I have. Here’s two that show the wick. McMaster Carr sells wick material, but you have to buy 5 feet of it @ $3 and change a foot, depending on size. You only need about 2”. An oiling cap like the one on the front won’t work with that style end plate. An other option is to replace the bushing with an oilite style bushing that has been soaked in oil. The bushing probably needs replaced anyway, because it’s been run dry. That’s your copper residue. It will eventually ground the armature to to the field coils and you will need a new generator or change to an alternator. I like to Keep It Simple Sometimes and do preventive maintenance before it fails.

 

Thank you so much.

Di you have a idea how these wick runs?

I have the wick ( from a petroleum lamp) and a new gasket ready to install, but i am not sure how to route the wick.

Also how is the oil refill routine for this? Do i have to remove the generator every time to fill the oil chamber?

 

(sorry for my crazy english, i hope my german is better … 🤣)

 

Joe

[9 foot box]

   This generator doesn’t have a plug above the wick, it should have one. Your picture shows a plug. As previously mentioned, it would be easier to install a dry wick from the top. Here is a picture of where oil is added. Swivel the tab to expose the hole. You haven’t watched the video on You Tube or you would have seen how the bushing has a notch milled into it, so the wick draws oil to the shaft and bushing. A lamp wick has a different absorption rolled into 1/4” hole than a felt wick. It’s the wrong fabric, in my opinion. Your rear bushing is already compromised by seeing the bronze particles in the end cap. The service manuals don’t tell us how to change a rear bushing, but I think that video on You Tube explains a lot. You can’t over fill a rear bushing, the oil will run out the vent. Over oiling the front bearing can pollute the generator with oil. 

[GTfastbacker]

3 hours ago, 9 foot box said:

   This generator doesn’t have a plug above the wick, it should have one. Your picture shows a plug. As previously mentioned, it would be easier to install a dry wick from the top. Here is a picture of where oil is added. Swivel the tab to expose the hole. You haven’t watched the video on You Tube or you would have seen how the bushing has a notch milled into it, so the wick draws oil to the shaft and bushing. A lamp wick has a different absorption rolled into 1/4” hole than a felt wick. It’s the wrong fabric, in my opinion. Your rear bushing is already compromised by seeing the bronze particles in the end cap. The service manuals don’t tell us how to change a rear bushing, but I think that video on You Tube explains a lot. You can’t over fill a rear bushing, the oil will run out the vent. Over oiling the front bearing can pollute the generator with oil. 

 

 

 

Thank you!

I had obviously seen the wrong part of the video, he only briefly mentioned the lid and the supposed oil hole.
I'll watch it all again this evening.

 

Since I'm going on a little trip this weekend, I have to get it running somehow and postpone the big repair until later. The wick was the best I could get in Germany (petroleum is not that far from light oil), diameter 3/8".

It will take some time until I get the new bearings.

 

 

 

Edited July 25 by GTfastbacker