Thinking of Buying A De Soto Driver

[Ivan_B]

No.

If you want to drive an older car, look for the newest and the most expensive one (based upon its objective physical condition) that will feel old-enough for you, and enjoy.

[Bingster]

Well, I certainly see your point. But I'm not just after "any classic car" but a 1947/48 De Soto Custom. But I have given up the idea of buying a restored one because of the feedback I got on the board. I am glad that they covered the "cons". 

[Sam Buchanan]

4 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

No.

If you want to drive an older car, look for the newest and the most expensive one (based upon its objective physical condition) that will feel old-enough for you, and enjoy.

 

This is outstanding advice and difficult to accept for those who think they can transform a rough project car into a reliable driver. Returning a rough car to good roadworthiness will ALWAYS cost far more than anticipated. The onion just has more layers than we expect.......Just the price of paint and interior can be overwhelming and that doesn't include whatever mechanical work is needed.

 

It is better to buy a nice car (an older restoration is ideal) for a price less than what the restorer has invested, let them take the financial hit. This is the most economical path if a "daily driver" that looks nice is desired. Like the old Fram oil filter commercial....."You can pay me now or pay me later"! 

[Ivan_B]

1 hour ago, Bingster said:

But I'm not just after "any classic car" but a 1947/48 De Soto Custom.

And I was after a 1956 Cadillac or Packard, but got a 1940 Plymouth instead. Why? Because all of the Cadillacs/Packards I looked at were in a very poor condition (including the expensive ones, out of my budget). And when I looked underneath this Plymouth, I thought: "no way, there is no rust holes and it looks like it is actually operational..." And it was. It is up to you, eventually, but I am sure many of us have been there. You get "the car", because you want it, and then it sits because you cannot fix it, for whatever reason. And you cannot sell it either, because you already spent extra money on it and it's not going to sell for what it's worth to you, now. So it sits, and sits, and you spend more money and time into it, and keep wishing you will drive it around some day. And some people do finish their long-term projects but, statistically, most of these probably sit forever. Is it worth it? I don't know...

There is another way. You can get a car you can actually afford (and purchase price is only part of it, you must be able to maintain it, etc.) and enjoy it. Right now. What if you don't like it? No problem, you can sell it for the same price you got it for, or maybe even a bit more if you've done some reasonable improvements. Even dry-cleaning the interior goes a long way. Not many people will buy a garage project, but a working classic car is a completely different matter.

How much money did you spend on your project, to date? Look up some ads for similarly-priced working classic cars. Would you rather have one of these, and forget about this whole mess?

 

Not sure what kind of cars you are into, but I saw plenty of relatively inexpensive Thunderbirds from the 60s. These seem to look nice, for a $7-10k you can probably get one that needs nothing, except some regular maintenance, and you can drive it around, take it to car shows, and just get on with your life ?

[Bingster]

I really haven't spent much on the De Soto aside from NOS and mint parts that are easy resold at a profit. It's been ten years.  This particular car is mentally associated with seeing it in a driveway and really liking the design. I'm not too into fifties cars because for me they lost the streamlined era influence with the teardrop designs and went to the more boxy fifties bodies.  For a guy into the fifties cars there is the chrome and the fins and all that, I get it, but for me I am more connected with that era of the thirties and forties.

[soth122003]

Here you go Bingster. It's close by, relativly speaking.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186222866047?hash=item2b5bbf6e7f%3Ag%3AkRwAAOSwaRRlKzn-&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwJRUpOdoBUVEBc093PwS0zlJD5ZGNc8A6kAPvXVSD5KUDkU47avpn0KCpGWOFenvDI2a2lQtP3iimiv9SwpFPKfTHnMFGNvESFXNtyFNL6SuzqFu6WHa7ForTZzfBUM6ucYb07dbwr5cJtPWG%2Fm%2BWUc3Zi2fLgoE5ZsB3ZIsL6do7mc1N8yQScQsBI27fjptbNT%2BnJthqN2XzyULwA%2F36wujYDu8rT3pv2K50wO%2BhIONgikwW6RSnyUop45OebPyPg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR-qs8d2lYw&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

 

Joe Lee

[Los_Control]

One thing I keep wondering about is, what condition is your current desoto in?

 

You have been asking questions on it on various different topics .... initial startup, wiring, troubleshooting the starter etc .... I just wonder what condition it is in and what will it take to make it roadworthy?

 

I can understand getting frustrated and getting second thoughts on your project .... happens to me also.

 

 

[Bingster]

First of all, that is a gorgeous De Soto.  Just what the doctor ordered.  But there are 36 people watching from what I gather, and it is pretty far away. Would it make the trip back or would I have to have it shipped?  And the price has got to go up with all those people interested.  But the distance is the main obstacle.

 

As for the other question. My car is almost 100% rust free.  Some rocker work. The spare tire well needed work but I had a yard cut one out of another De Soto and I can weld it in. There is no damage to any of the body sheet metal.

 

Most all of the trim is either decent, NOS or excellent.  It's true I have had a lot to do to try and get the engine to fire, but I have had to fix problems one by one. I believe that when I get the starter back it should fire and I expect a good running engine. From there brakes, fuel tank, tires, and I should be able to drive it around the yard.

 

I'll have some money after I sell this property that I can use for things that I cannot easily fix like the fluid drive or tranny stuff. I don't know if I'll need to cause the car was running before I bought it, but who knows. 

 

I can do the body work and painting myself. I've painted trucks, railroad cars, and even a steam locomotive.  So paint and materials plus my labor is all I'll need to get it back and put on the trim.

 

If I can get past this engine thing it'll go much faster, except I have a lot of life stuff happening this year. 

[Ivan_B]

2 hours ago, Bingster said:

It's been ten years.

I admire your dedication but, at the same time, am also very sorry to hear that you've kept yourself from enjoying a classic car ride for such a long time ?

 

2 hours ago, Bingster said:

For a guy into the fifties cars there is the chrome and the fins and all that, I get it, but for me I am more connected with that era of the thirties and forties.

These cars are rather old, by now. So you either need to spend a lot of money to get a decently restored car (no guarantees here, btw., because people have a widely variable opinion about what "decently restored" car means; UTG has a couple of useful tube videos about hack restoration jobs as a good example), or you need to be a good universal mechanic to fix one up yourself. From what I am reading, none of these applies, unfortunately.

 

2 hours ago, Los_Control said:

One thing I keep wondering about is, what condition is your current desoto in?

It sounds more like a garage full of parts in need of assembly, to be honest

 

1 hour ago, Bingster said:

First of all, that is a gorgeous De Soto.  Just what the doctor ordered.

I would not be so sure. It looks like the interior was re-done (good). A repaint as well. But, by the look of that rear bumper, the car might've been sitting in the filed, somewhere. So you need to carefully inspect the under-body and the quality of all the bodywork done to it. It might look alright, from afar, but still be a pile of rusted metal with some body filler. Quality body work is extremely expensive, so most of these cars that were re-done, I've seen, were re-done poorly. You don't want to buy that. If you are looking at a repaired car, ask the seller for the "before" pictures to assess what you are dealing with.

 

Well, I've given enough of unsolicited feedback here. It is up to you. You know, there are dreamers and doers. Don't be on the wrong side. Reaching for the stars, and everything, is good motivation, but it is useful to be reasonable about your expectations, and plan accordingly ?

Edited January 21 by Ivan_B

[Plymouthy Adams]

this thread here is quickly firming up as a lesson learned late....if you do not have the ability to enter this hobby self-sufficient, buy one already completely built and cross your fingers it remains in good running condition.  Time and money spent over the years and still in-op can take a toll on the wallet and morale.  

[Los_Control]

IIRC the mechanic had mentioned concerns of how the starter turned over .... but sent it back to you anyways. ..... Can be frustrating indeed.

I hope they do get it correct this time, or you get it to someone who can fix it properly.

 

These are all very frustrating things that happen when working on older cars .... I guess we just need to learn to roll with the punches and learn from the mistakes.

 

Seriously you do have a NOS relay, a rebuilt starter, as long as you have proper wiring you will get past this. ..... Once you get a proper rebuilt starter.

Just gets frustrating when something that seems so trivial becomes a issue.

This is exactly why you would not want one of these old cars for your only daily driver .... I expect to drive my truck daily, but have a modern 1991 vehicle for backup.

I ran into a small fiasco just doing a tuneup.

 

Really sounds like you have a great Desoto already, just need to get to know it and give it some TLC. Sure would be nice to see photos of it.

The more you get to know it and work on it, the friendlier it will become and it will respond accordingly.

I have gotten frustrated with my project many times. ..... life gets in the way constantly .... we just keep going forward.

While waiting on the starter, maybe there is something else you can work on and get it out of the way? Simply one step closer.

Winter weather it is tough to get motivated.

 

 

 

[Bingster]

Thanks for the kind words!  I somewhat agree with Plymouthy in that this thread has taken a turn down a different block from where I was trying to go. But I wouldn't quite go so far as saying this is a lesson learned too late because who and what defines "too late?" It means something different to each person.  I don't want to get philosophical about all of this so let's just leave it where it is for now.  But I would hope that I may continue seeking your help and let my chips fall where they may.  At least know that I am actually applying your knowledge directly to the car.

It reminds me of the old routine "Slowly I turn . . . step by step . . inch by inch . . "

[Plymouthy Adams]

well...maybe not so much a lesson as a 'less than expected turn of events"

[bacelaw]

Ever see the videos on Facebook of a day in the life in some city from the 1940's?  

 

I keep reminding myself, people drove these cars daily.  In the snow, in the cold, they drove them.  None of us are getting any younger.  If you want to drive a 40's vehicle every day - do it.  Undercoat the frame and floor with Fluid Film every year.

 

These cars will outlast all of us.  

[Ivan_B]

4 minutes ago, bacelaw said:

If you want to drive a 40's vehicle every day - do it.

He would, except that it ain't starting... ?

[bacelaw]

7 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

He would, except that it ain't starting... ?

 

I realize that.  On that front, this forum and its wealth of knowledge can get it started, guaranteed!  

 

A new Optima 6 volt battery can work wonders.  And I could be wrong but there isn't much that can go wrong with these old starter motors.  There are armatures on ebay.  Has @Bingster tried a fresh battery?

 

I was only trying to encourage everyone to remember to get out and drive. 

[Sam Buchanan]

45 minutes ago, bacelaw said:

Ever see the videos on Facebook of a day in the life in some city from the 1940's?  

 

I keep reminding myself, people drove these cars daily.  In the snow, in the cold, they drove them.  None of us are getting any younger.  If you want to drive a 40's vehicle every day - do it.  Undercoat the frame and floor with Fluid Film every year.

 

These cars will outlast all of us.  

 

This is why driving my 1948 P15 is fascinating for me. Every time I point it down the road I realize I have been transported to 1948 (except for our roads being far better). If I'm concerned about driving it some distance I recall that these cars in their day were driven......everywhere. Two summers ago I spent some time (in a fairly new F-150) on original portions of Rt 66. I wish it had been practical to get my P15 on those old highways, that would have been a trip back in time. Wow.....imagine driving these old cars for hundreds of miles across the desert SW.....we worry about getting to Dairy Queen and back.....  ?

 

So I've returned my P15 to as close to new condition as possible and drive it wherever I wish knowing it was built to be somebody's main (only?) form of transportation. It is proving to be a great journey, our cars belong on the road.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nYzMY_fuJU

[Sniper]

53 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

He would, except that it ain't starting... ?

 

One learns to push start, if that isn't motivation enough to get the starter sorted it will at least be a work out.

[Los_Control]

15 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

One learns to push start, if that isn't motivation enough to get the starter sorted it will at least be a work out.

Don't Desoto have a provision for a hand crank?

 

[Ivan_B]

13 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nYzMY_fuJU

Were these "carefully colorized" by a neural network? There are obvious mistakes\blemishes on most of these photos... ?

These cars, in their day, were brand new, so there is no surprise that they were taken everywhere across the country and abroad under all sorts of driving conditions.

[oldodge41]

I know it was done regularly back in the day, but today? Push starting a Desoto, sounds like a segment on "Worlds Strongest Men" competitions. Sorry, my feeble attempt at humor. Seriously though, I have found this thread thoroughly enjoyable. Lots of different ways to enjoy these old cars. Restoring, modifying, patching, hacking, driving, or simply viewing. Nothing wrong with a less than concourse restoration in my mind. The problem is people will hide that fact when trying to sell. Be open, be honest with yourself and others. I've had my share of folks tell me what they see wrong with my car, it seems to make them happy somehow. Hell, I know what's wrong, I built it! Still building for that matter. I like looking at 100 point show cars, but I love driving my old Dodge. I would drive it anywhere, properly maintained and with a toolbox and common spares I feel confident. My wifes confidence level, not so much, LOL. But I don't want it for my daily driver. It is a pleasure vehicle, therapeutic if you will, like my motorcycles once were. Wrenching or driving it usually clears my head and makes me smile, and sometimes I need that. My daily, I just want to get in and get from point A to point B, not looking for any particular "experience".

[Plymouthy Adams]

while this will entail going to 12 volt....likely the better option all around anyway, these are reported to be very reliable units..back in the day everyone made fun of the sound of a Mopar gear reduction starter....today everyone WANTS that style starter for the sheer grunt it provides.  

 

Gear Reduction Starters for American Classics (vintageautogarage.com)

[Sam Buchanan]

13 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

Were these "carefully colorized" by a neural network? There are obvious mistakes\blemishes on most of these photos... ?

These cars, in their day, were brand new, so there is no surprise that they were taken everywhere across the country and abroad under all sorts of driving conditions.

 

Yes, the colorization is a little flakey but that wasn't the point of including the link.

 

Each time I address a service/repair issue on the P15 I try to resolve it to like-new condition or at least to where it will function as close to like-new as I can get it. The reason for that being my emphasis is to make the car as reliable as it would have been when it was in daily service. It has proven to be a very dependable driver (just wish the rear seal didn't leak!).

[Los_Control]

19 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

(just wish the rear seal didn't leak!).

@keithb7 has a video on how to fix that  

 

One of the things that bother me about driving these old cars is the quality of replacement parts. ...NOS is not always available.

Also the quality of available mechanics. .... Todays mechanics are good enough, they simply are not trained to work on these old vehicles.

When these cars were driven daily, there was a mechanic in almost every service station that knew how to work on these cars, they had good quality American made parts available at any parts store in town. ..... The local wrecking yards were filled with used parts for these cars.

 

All of these things combined made it relatively simple to drive these cars daily. It can still be done today, just not as easily as it use to be.

[oldodge41]

Also keep in mind when these cars were daily drivers everyone was driving one. Everyone dealt with similar power, stopping, handling, lighting, etc.. Today a lot of modern car drivers have no idea what you can and can't do relative to the things they do.