Newbie with my first project car.

[keithb7]

In this photo we see my 1938 Plymouth sedan. Aside from the motor mount difference, it will be almost the same as your 1937. I have the rear of the engine blocked up and supported while I am replacing the rear motor mounts. Will the car's right hand main frame be in the way of the bell housing shown in your photo?  I suspect so.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by keithb7

[SteveR]

53 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

For comparison here is my 38 sedan tranny. Very similar to a '37 except for the park brake lever.

The brake lever is on the right side on a 37. I see yours is on the L,H, side. The transmission is the same as mine except mine is a 39. So you could use a 37, 38, 39 transmission

[Merle Coggins]

I agree with Keith that this trans may not fit into your car. Even the truck bell housing would likely take some major modifications to make fit. After looking at your trans some more, and comparing to my 4 speed trans, I am thinking it may be a 5 speed truck trans as it’s longer than my 4 speed. That’s even larger than the 4 speed trans. The park brake lever makes sense now with the 8-11-49 date case in the shift cover. What is the engine number stamped into the pad above the generator? Since you say it’s a 251 it’s quite likely it came out of a larger truck, which could confirm the possibility of it having a 5 speed. 

 

If the engine is good I would recommend that you divorce it from that trans and bell housing and mount it up to your existing bell housing/trans in the car. 

[DC_Maidens]

4 hours ago, keithb7 said:

For me, the large bell housing raises concerns about fitment in a '37 sedan. The Tranny looks physically larger as well. More robust for heavier payload? Was the truck tranny a 4 speed? The stock 37 was a 3 speed. The tunnel around the tranny and firewall may be smaller in a sedan versus a truck. Fitment might be a real issue.

 

For comparison here is my 38 sedan tranny. Very similar to a '37 except for the park brake lever.

 

That is definitely a lot smaller. I am going to pull the motor and transmission from the car and I'll take a look at what I have. I kind of like the idea of a four or five speed. I wonder if it'll mount to the cars bell housing and if the bell housing will mount to the newer engine. Only one way to find out I guess. 

 

Although, what the heck will I do with a PTO? Haha

[DC_Maidens]

3 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

I agree with Keith that this trans may not fit into your car. Even the truck bell housing would likely take some major modifications to make fit. After looking at your trans some more, and comparing to my 4 speed trans, I am thinking it may be a 5 speed truck trans as it’s longer than my 4 speed. That’s even larger than the 4 speed trans. The park brake lever makes sense now with the 8-11-49 date case in the shift cover. What is the engine number stamped into the pad above the generator? Since you say it’s a 251 it’s quite likely it came out of a larger truck, which could confirm the possibility of it having a 5 speed. 

 

If the engine is good I would recommend that you divorce it from that trans and bell housing and mount it up to your existing bell housing/trans in the car. 

I was told it came from a 3-ton but I'm guessing maybe a 3/4 ton is what he meant. I got it from a retired farmer.

 

The engine code is T181 1802C

[keithb7]

Keep in mimd, for use in a truck the 4 or 5 speed is not designed to give you more top end speed. It is likely built for lower, and lower again,  gears below first.  For transporting heavy loads.  In a car you might start in 3rd, ending in 5th. Yet you may still be wanting for more gears.  Yet if you want to pull stumps…Double aught gears below first might  prove their worth! Lol. 

[DC_Maidens]

3 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Keep in mimd, for use in a truck the 4 or 5 speed is not designed to give you more top end speed. It is likely built for lower, and lower again,  gears below first.  For transporting heavy loads.  In a car you might start in 3rd, ending in 5th. Yet you may still be wanting for more gears.  Yet if you want to pull stumps…Double aught gears below first might  prove their worth! Lol. 

Hmm you bring up great points. Time to pull the transmission out of the car and see what shape it's in.

[SteveR]

8 hours ago, DC_Maidens said:

I wonder if it'll mount to the cars bell housing and if the bell housing will mount to the newer engine. Only one way to find out I guess.

In my 37 Plymouth I have a 1951 230 engine with a 39 tranny. It all bolts together. The hand brake is a 37 as mentioned earlier.

I would think that the best thing to do is take your engine and tranny out which is what you would have to do anyways to rebuild your car. Otherwise, it's a guessing game. You may find as I did on my 39 tranny that there are 40-41 synchros & clutch gears inside.

[Merle Coggins]

15 hours ago, DC_Maidens said:

I was told it came from a 3-ton but I'm guessing maybe a 3/4 ton is what he meant. I got it from a retired farmer.

 

The engine code is T181 1802C

 

A 3 ton truck would be about right for that engine/trans combo. Some 5 speed truck transmissions had an overdrive 5th, some did not. Either way, it’s not likely to fit in your car . 

[John T]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:41 PM, DC_Maidens said:

 

Informative and fun videos

These are great!  Wish I had known about them sooner!  Thanks!

[Dodgeb4ya]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:41 PM, DC_Maidens said:

The engine and transmission is from a 1958 Dodge truck.

 

Can anyone identify the transmission? The only number I can find is C-88373.

What's the redish-orange thing attached to the transmission?

The transmission is a 5 speed ..most likely a non syncro crash box...need to see the other side to be sure.

Came out of a 2 or 2-1/2 tonner Dodge.

No chance  of using it in a car.... unless you are a rat rodder.

[Conn47D24]

Welcome.

1. Get it started and running decent.

2. SAFETY,  brakes , tires, etc.

Last. Pretty

 

Keep at it !

[DC_Maidens]

On 12/30/2022 at 3:54 PM, Conn47D24 said:

Welcome.

1. Get it started and running decent.

2. SAFETY,  brakes , tires, etc.

Last. Pretty

 

Keep at it !

That's the plan. Especially being in Canada. Our regulations can be a bit tight. To avoid any hassle I am going to keep everything as stock, as possible, get it registered, and get it on the road. After I go through the red tape I'll entertain the thought of modifications.

[DC_Maidens]

I was able to confirm that the car is a 1938 Dodge Six D10.

 

And in other exciting news: the 251 flathead broke free last night. It doesn't do a full revolution due to cylinder rust, but it moves!!!

I equate the feeling I felt when the motor broke free, as that feeling of relief and joy you get from a (keep it classy) repressed painful fart you finally let loose.

In other words; it felt so good.

[Rosco]

Ha! Ha!  Good comparison!  Welcome to the forum and good luck on your project!  Looks like it’s going to be a fun build.

[DC_Maidens]

I thought it was rust in the cylinders that was stopping the engine from completing full revolutions, but as it turns out it's the valves. Some appear to be stuck open. I tapped very lightly with a rubber mallet on a few valves and the heads broke off (ugh). 

 

The crankshaft, rods, and bearings all appear to be in great condition. Oil had some sludge and I found one miscellaneous spring. I don't know if it came from the fuel pump, oil pump, oil filter, or some other part. I'll have to refer to an exploded diagram. Got to say, it's equal parts frustration, fun, and education. I'm really enjoying it... though my fingers and knuckles would tend to disagree.

[SteveR]

2 hours ago, DC_Maidens said:

though my fingers and knuckles would tend to disagree.

LOL, you'll get use to that to the point that as you're working you start to feel something sticky on your hand only to find out it's blood. You can then be like OJ Simson and say I don't know how I cut myself. I do it all the time'.

[DC_Maidens]

I am looking at possibly purchasing a front disc brake conversion kit from ScareBird before the fly the coop ?. I am hoping someone can help me with the measurement they are asking for, please refer to attached image. They need the offset 'B' measurement. Where the heck do I take this from, I've included images of my front brake for referencing. 

[DC_Maidens]

Is this measurement from the face of the drum brake, while on the spindle, to the backside of the drum brake backer plate?

[vintage6t]

Not 100% sure, but from the diagram it looks like with the hub on the spindle, Offset A is from the face of the hub to the end of the spindle and offset B is from the backing plate behind the hub to the face of the hub. There are plenty of members who have installed this kit, so the best thing to do is start a new thread asking specifically about how to measure for a ScareBird kit. BTW- I'm pretty sure ScareBird is defunct at this point.

[DC_Maidens]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:52 PM, vintage6t said:

Not 100% sure, but from the diagram it looks like with the hub on the spindle, Offset A is from the face of the hub to the end of the spindle and offset B is from the backing plate behind the hub to the face of the hub. There are plenty of members who have installed this kit, so the best thing to do is start a new thread asking specifically about how to measure for a ScareBird kit. BTW- I'm pretty sure ScareBird is defunct at this point.

Thanks for your help. I was thinking the same way to measure as you've mentioned. I've been in contact with Mark at Scarebird. I believe they are selling off their stock but not making any more.

 

I am on the fence about the swap though. From what I gather the swaps are never as good as the stock drums, even Uncle Tony on YouTube mentioned it. Which makes sense as the system wasn't designed for discs. In the distant future I am looking at doing a full Mustang II, or similar, front end conversion which was designed for discs. I might just wait to do that. The only reason I was considering the disc swap was new drums are $400 USD each, from oldmoparts.com. It wasn't too much more to do a disc swap. 

[Sam Buchanan]

24 minutes ago, DC_Maidens said:

I am on the fence about the swap though. From what I gather the swaps are never as good as the stock drums, even Uncle Tony on YouTube mentioned it. Which makes sense as the system wasn't designed for discs. In the distant future I am looking at doing a full Mustang II, or similar, front end conversion which was designed for discs. I might just wait to do that. The only reason I was considering the disc swap was new drums are $400 USD each, from oldmoparts.com. It wasn't too much more to do a disc swap. 

 

Uncle Tony may be a smart internet guy (I'm not familiar with him) but I don't know why he would say a disc conversion isn't as good as the original brakes unless he is referring to some sort of cobbled together conversion. No fading, no maintenance for the lifetime of the car (we'll never drive these things enough to wear out the pads and rotor), no adjusting and modern wheel studs. That is not as good as the old drums??? Interesting...

 

[DC_Maidens]

3 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Uncle Tony may be a smart internet guy (I'm not familiar with him) but I don't know why he would say a disc conversion isn't as good as the original brakes unless he is referring to some sort of cobbled together conversion. No fading, no maintenance for the lifetime of the car (we'll never drive these things enough to wear out the pads and rotor), no adjusting and modern wheel studs. That is not as good as the old drums??? Interesting...

 

I believe he was referring to the fact that a swap meant that it's something engineered to make something do or be what it's not. In other words something is bound to be not quite right, work as well as the original, or will break. That's what I took from it, and what I've read in my very narrow scope of research. I am not defending it just putting it out there for discussion, and I am here to learn. Which is why I feel that perhaps waiting to do a full conversion is better. At least that system is designed to work with and have disc brakes which a far superior in my opinion (for what it's worth).

[Sniper]

For entertainment UT is ok in real small doses.  Other than that I pass on his nuggets of opinion.

 

 

[Los_Control]

13 minutes ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Uncle Tony may be a smart internet guy (I'm not familiar with him) but I don't know why he would say a disc conversion isn't as good as the original brakes unless he is referring to some sort of cobbled together conversion. No fading, no maintenance for the lifetime of the car (we'll never drive these things enough to wear out the pads and rotor), no adjusting and modern wheel studs. That is not as good as the old drums??? Interesting...

 

Tony is a big fan of nitro racing .... He was a magazine writer for several car magazines, was a pit mechanic on nitro engines, built his first nitro dragster & made the cover of Hot Rod magazine .... His maiden voyage down the track was his last in that car. He made the roll bar too close to his head .... about 1/2 way down the track he almost lost consciousness. All the vibration smacking his head against the roll bar.

 

Tony explains why he prefers drum brakes, there is no drag on the shoes. Calipers always provide a very slight drag.

Drum brakes are lighter then a disk brake .... Tony is into 1/4 mile racing ... he prefers drum brakes.

Just suggesting, what is best for him may not be best for everyone.