Alcohol in our fuel

[SteveR]

As of September 1, in the UK they have changed our fuel from 5% alcohol to 10%.  !0% fuel has an octane rating of 95. If we want to run the 5% fuel that is rated at 99-102 octane.

My question then is, is the 10% alcohol going to do any damage and what can I expect from running a higher octane fuel. 

My engine is a 51/52 230 cu in single carb.

Thanks

[plymouthcranbrook]

The biggest issue I know of is the tendency of alcohol to dissolve rubber items like diaphragms in fuel pumps.  Replacement parts that are alcohol proof are available but need to be installed. If you haven’t had a problem at 5%.perhaps you won’t have one at 10.  The only gas available near me is ethanol infused and the nearest pure gas is 40 miles away. I haven’t had any issues with my 52 from using it but that said I don’t drive my cars as much as some do here. And I always buy the lowest octane gas can get since the engines were designed with low compression ratings because gas was low octane back then.  I have always been told that running higher octane fuel wouldn’t hurt an engine. Just throwing money away. 

[SteveR]

Thanks for that. Will I have to change any timing with either the 10% or if I use the higher octane?

[Sniper]

How the UK rates gasoline's octane levels is different than how we do it in the states. 

 

https://aircooledbug.co.uk/usa-versus-uk-fuel-octane/

 

So your 95 is our 87, which is what I generally run.  I run Shell gasoline only in my 51 and it's labeled as having 10% alcohol, which is misleading as it really means "up to 10%".  Only way to tell for sure is to use one of those alcohol content testers they sell.

 

As for the timing, you should set that to what works best for your engine regardless of the fuel used.  Some like to use the vacuum method, others advance till it pings then back off just enough to get rid of the pinging.  others just set it to factory specs and say "good enough". 

 

I set mine to 5 BTDC on my 51, factory calls for TDC.

[SteveR]

Thanks Sniper. My 230 is also set at 5BTDC. I am also running an electric fuel pump. I will have 2 pumps installed just in case one packs up and leaves me stranded. 

My biggest concern was the alcohol eating away at the carb.

[Sniper]

I did rebuild my carb shortly after I bought the car as it was leaking fuel externally.  Haven't had any issues since, it has been about 2 years now.  I did get a new manufacture rebuild kit rather than an NOS one.  The only rubber part that might be affected is the fuel inlet needle tip, in the case of my carb the old one was suspect.  See the picture. 

 

 

[knuckleharley]

Some people like to run an electric fuel pump for easy starts,and then flip a switch under the dash to shut off the electric pump,and run off the manual fuel pump.

 

If you run off an electric fuel pump all the time it is a VERY good idea to install one of those "accident automatic shutoff switches" (I obviously can't remember the real name) so that in case of an accident you don't have gasoline pumping all over the place even after the engine has stopped running.

 

That is the only negative thing I can find to say about electric fuel pumps as long as your fuel pump is matched to the fuel requirements of your car. With an antique car,you obviously want one of the low pressure inline pumps,NOT one made for modern fuel injection engines.

 

Being more than a little anal,even then I like the sense of peace that manually shutting off an electric fuel pump gives me. Just a little bit of careful is more valuable than all the sorry in the world.

[Doug&Deb]

I would continue to drive with the available fuel. If you have any problems they can be addressed with a carb rebuild and a new fuel pump. The new kits and pumps are ethanol resistant. As long as the alcohol is in the gas and not the driver you’re good.

[Sniper]

Being that the OP is in the UK it might behoove him to purchase a carb kit and pump or pump rebuild kit to have on hand.  Not sure how available that might be over there.

[Bryan G]

On cars from this vintage I've mostly had issues with fuel pumps; if you're handy you can rebuild them yourself with a kit. I've had major ethanol-induced problems on some newer carbs but not on ones with leather accelerator pumps. Timing will be fine. Heck, I've had a couple flathead engines that I've toyed with and I couldn't make them ping no matter where I set the timing. I don't think you can buy gasoline (um, petrol!) of a low enough grade to be a problem. Oh-replace any rubber fuel lines. Everything sold these days in the US is designed to stand up to alcohol.

[SteveR]

4 hours ago, Bryan G said:

I don't think you can buy gasoline (um, petrol!)

LOL I had to laugh at this. I can't bring myself to use the word 'Petrol' over here even though I've been here 24 years. I'm from Minnesota. I get many strange looks here when I say, I need to get some gas.

[SteveR]

7 hours ago, Sniper said:

Being that the OP is in the UK it might behoove him to purchase a carb kit and pump or pump rebuild kit to have on hand.  Not sure how available that might be over there

Thanks Sniper, I know the carb was rebuilt in 2017 by the previous owner. One thing I have learned here is, "American parts, whats that"? If it isn't European they don't know.

Back home in MN I could go to 10,000 Auto parts and say I need one of these. They usually had what I needed. Here even though they say they are a NAPA dealer they don't deal with many parts from the US.

[Ron175]

I’ve started adding some of this in my tank now that E10 petrol has been brought in. 

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-69352-millers-oils-eps-ethanol-protection-fuel-treatment-additive.aspx

Might be useless, but time will tell I guess. 
 

Might be worth sticking to the premium or super unleaded as most of those over here still have a lot less than 5% ethanol content.   

[DJK]

13 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

Some people like to run an electric fuel pump for easy starts,and then flip a switch under the dash to shut off the electric pump,and run off the manual fuel pump.

 

If you run off an electric fuel pump all the time it is a VERY good idea to install one of those "accident automatic shutoff switches" (I obviously can't remember the real name) so that in case of an accident you don't have gasoline pumping all over the place even after the engine has stopped running.

 

That is the only negative thing I can find to say about electric fuel pumps as long as your fuel pump is matched to the fuel requirements of your car. With an antique car,you obviously want one of the low pressure inline pumps,NOT one made for modern fuel injection engines.

 

Being more than a little anal,even then I like the sense of peace that manually shutting off an electric fuel pump gives me. Just a little bit of careful is more valuable than all the sorry in the world.

I have a Carter electric pump, an inertia switch mounted in the trunk and a switch on the dash to shut off pump to drain carb to prevent hard hot restarts and to prevent issues using ethanol fuel. This time of year I will start using e free in advance of winter storage. Removed mechanical pump and installed block off plate.

Edited September 19, 2021 by DJK
update

[Dan Hiebert]

I think most U.S. gas is "up to 10%" now.  There are places where we can get "all gas", but depends on where you are.  Where I live, I can only get it at the airport, although I've heard that it is sometimes available elsewhere.  Even new vehicles here (U.S.) strongly recommend not using more than 15% ethanol (E85), and even then, the E85 ones are specially engineered for it.  Engineering components to withstand more than that has apparently proven problematic.  That said, we lived in El Paso, TX when they were mandated by the EPA to use ethanol in their gas back in the '90's, shortly after California did.  Initially, it was only during the "winter" months.  Because of the geography, and proximity to Cd. Juarez, El Paso has/had a real problem with pollution, separate from the rest of the State/Nation.  I had issues with the D24's fuel pump, which was already old by then, so I installed a rebuilt one.  Unknown if it is E anything compliant, but I haven't had any problems with it since.  Nor with any other component of the fuel system, other than the fuel evaporating out of the carb bowl quicker.  But, I've always added stabilizer to the gas when using ethanol laced fuel.  In other words, you will most likely not experience any issues with 10% ethanol.  Would be a good idea to add stabilizer.   

[rallyace]

One thing to consider with alcohol fuels is that they are less dense than the gasolines that were available 70 years ago. This means that you need to set your float lower than spec. Lower density means that the float needs to sit lower to offer sufficient pressure on the needle valve to shut off the fuel flow.  I set mine about 3/32" lower than spec. and have not had any issues with full throttle acceleration and starving the carb.

[allbizz49]

I drive my 53 Plymouth and 59 F100 almost every day. Factory everything no ptoblems. When not driving, I ride a carbureted Ducati monster 900. Once again,  no problems. I think people worry too much. Just drive and enjoy it.

[knuckleharley]

43 minutes ago, allbizz49 said:

I drive my 53 Plymouth and 59 F100 almost every day. Factory everything no ptoblems. When not driving, I ride a carbureted Ducati monster 900. Once again,  no problems. I think people worry too much. Just drive and enjoy it.

YIKES!

 

Ducati's are fast bikes! i used to flat track race a 250 Ducati on a 1/4 mile track. That's how I got my brain concussion. There is just something truly addictive about 2 wheel drifts around a 180 degree corner and popping a wheelie to straighten out before you hit the wall that gets ya where ya live!

[allbizz49]

Yep knuckle, I'm a Duc guy 100%. Not to derail but I take my little air cooled monster to the track. I built it from a pile of crashed parts 

[knuckleharley]

5 minutes ago, allbizz49 said:

Yep knuckle, I'm a Duc guy 100%. Not to derail but I take my little air cooled monster to the track. I built it from a pile of crashed parts 

Flat track racing on a quarter mile dirt track was the most exciting thing I ever did in my life,and that includes running recon missions in VN,Laos,and Cambodia. You ain't lived until you are in a two wheel drift around a 180 degree corner,throwing up a rooster tail of dirt behind you as you shift gears and get lined up for the straight away. OOOH MY!

[SteveR]

7 hours ago, rallyace said:

One thing to consider with alcohol fuels is that they are less dense than the gasolines that were available 70 years ago. This means that you need to set your float lower than spec. Lower density means that the float needs to sit lower to offer sufficient pressure on the needle valve to shut off the fuel flow.  I set mine about 3/32" lower than spec. and have not had any issues with full throttle acceleration and starving the carb.

That's good advice, I will keep that in mind.