New paint

[knuckleharley]

37 minutes ago, DJK said:

I understand the $4500 cost, but I was initially told $12-$1300, with no warning of the final price until I picked it up. Not to mention the areas that still need attention.

I don't like being a butthole,but did you get that estimate in writing? If you did,you can take that asshat to small claims court and get most of that money back. Sounds like a "bait and switch" estimate,with the body shop owner hoping you couldn't or wouldn't come up with the money,and he would get the car for labor claims.

 

One thing I AM certain of,and that is it was NOT an honest mistake. No pro would be THAT far off from the esitmate unless it was purposful. Take that SOB to court and get your money back. He was trying to scam you out of your car,and may have even jacked up the labor and materials to try to justify it. If you can PROVE that,you have him on fraud.

 

I have seen this happen.

[p15-1948]

I sold this car three or four years ago after owning it for just over 20 years.  The color is Milano red, a Honda two stage color.  I'm old, but I think I spent a grand on the paint almost 25 years ago.  A friend and I did the bodywork and prep, it was a total, down to nuts and bolts job.  Believe me, any paint job the spraying is the easy part.  The bodywork sanding, working gaps, keeping every surface clean before spraying; then the sanding and buffing after spraying is where the real work is.  Thinking back now, the cost of beer, for myself and all the friends who helped on the rebuild, may have been the single highest cost of the rebuild. 

 

[dwest999]

I had a car painted several years ago.  I found a body guy that did work on the side.  He did all of the prep work after I removed most of the bits and pieces.  After he was done doing his thing I took it over to Maaco and they shot single stage on it and then baked it afterwards.  The paint came out as an 7.5 to 8 out of 10, but I was happy with it.  Personally, I like paint that has some flaws here and there... it kind of removes the "it's perfect paint" pressure.    

[Plymouthy Adams]

there is a lot to be said for a car you intend to drive be painted nicely but if you pay too much money on paint...it is super nice...your willingness to drive it and park it near any other vehicle quickly takes the fun out of driving the beast due to fears and worry.    I know not everyone has the time, place or facility to spray their own cars....skill set can be learned all few are natural born to do X jobs but I believe born with a slant toward better than some at X jobs.....the not having the facility and or taking the time to do this yourself is a shame in part because it is a rewarding experience.  Materials....cost can be on the lower side as most body shop work with products that will be sprayed and worked some 10 minutes later...this are higher priced but really not any better except in turnaround time....you however are not pressed by their in by 8 out by 5 insurance driven schedule.

[DJK]

23 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

I don't like being a butthole,but did you get that estimate in writing? If you did,you can take that asshat to small claims court and get most of that money back. Sounds like a "bait and switch" estimate,with the body shop owner hoping you couldn't or wouldn't come up with the money,and he would get the car for labor claims.

 

One thing I AM certain of,and that is it was NOT an honest mistake. No pro would be THAT far off from the esitmate unless it was purposful. Take that SOB to court and get your money back. He was trying to scam you out of your car,and may have even jacked up the labor and materials to try to justify it. If you can PROVE that,you have him on fraud.

 

I have seen this happen.

Again, I have known this guy for 45 yrs., he painted a 1975 MGB for me back in 1977, he was in a model airplane club with my Dad. I don't even have a receipt. Going to see him today to see what can be done. I guess I am too trusting or naïve or just plain stupid!!!!!

[Sam Buchanan]

Have to wonder if your friend has more or less retired from active control of the business and the billing was generated by someone else......

[Plymouthy Adams]

look out for that 'lien' hopefully was an oversite....some folks say I am cynical.....it is not cynical when you KNOW they are out to get you...the word cynical used in that manner is just another word for EXPERIENCE 

[DJK]

On 7/5/2021 at 10:01 AM, Plymouthy Adams said:

there is a lot to be said for a car you intend to drive be painted nicely but if you pay too much money on paint...it is super nice...your willingness to drive it and park it near any other vehicle quickly takes the fun out of driving the beast due to fears and worry.    I know not everyone has the time, place or facility to spray their own cars....skill set can be learned all few are natural born to do X jobs but I believe born with a slant toward better than some at X jobs.....the not having the facility and or taking the time to do this yourself is a shame in part because it is a rewarding experience.  Materials....cost can be on the lower side as most body shop work with products that will be sprayed and worked some 10 minutes later...this are higher priced but really not any better except in turnaround time....you however are not pressed by their in by 8 out by 5 insurance driven schedule.

That is why I was willing to have him improve the existing paint for $4-$500 wet sand and buff, that went to a $12-$1300 paint job and end result, with some slight body work for $4500. My main bitch is that I was not contacted prior to him completing the job for the $4500 price. I spoke with him this morning, he is going to address some concerns that I have with the job. I painted my first car when I was 14 in my parents single car garage, painted many of my buddies cars until I started turning wrenches at 20 yrs of age. At 67 I have no desire to paint a car in my own garage. Also I don't want it perfect, like you stated for fear of driving it, I have 8 grandkids that enjoy riding in Papa's car.

[DJK]

5 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Have to wonder if your friend has more or less retired from active control of the business and the billing was generated by someone else......

He is very active, has 3 other guys in the shop, which they specialize in building street rods. Also he is connected to a local cable TV provider that he set up yrs. ago that his son now runs. He is very busy with the local fire dept., just had some localized flooding in the area, that he helped in clean up. He counted out the cash I gave him and no receipt.

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, DJK said:

He counted out the cash I gave him and no receipt.

 

? ? ?

 

Sorry this didn't work out as planned.....on several levels......

Edited July 6, 2021 by Sam Buchanan

[Dartgame]

I sold and worked in the lab with the raw materials used in auto refinish and oem for most of my career. We were a producer selling molecules to the big paint companies. Putting it bluntly, the mark up paint companies make on their finished product is outrageous. The raw material cost of a gallon of clear coat polyurethane is probably no more than 50$ depending on what's in it. Don't hesitate to use the knock offs, they bought from us too and their formulas have every bit as good performance as the name brands.

 

Where the costs are is in the pigmented systems (base coats), but even still these don't match up with the mark ups.

 

I was appalled at the base/clear paint cost when I had my 52 repainted, I resorted to using single stage catalyzed enamel, to keep raw material paint costs down.

[Los_Control]

Paint jail is such a easy place to avoid .... same time people with a busy agenda end up in paint jail so often ... it really should be a crime.

 

I bring this up because in 04/21 I took my wife car in for a local Texas inspection and get registration renewed. Old men tend to gossip.

We were talking about the 60's merc fastback out in the yard. Plain & simple the owner sent the car off to be painted ... Was a perfect running engine with a brand new Holley carburetor.

Painter was taking too long and car owner complaining. So finally got painted.

Owner comes to pick it up, worst paint job you ever seen.  Besides the runs all over the place. it was arrest me red with 2 black stripes down it.

When they removed the masking tape, it also removed chips of fresh paint.

So when the owner comes to pay $3500 for a paint job and pick up his car .... The car was sitting on the street, battery removed, carburetor missing. The paint was all screwed up ... they called the local tow company to come pick it up. 

 

8 months later, is time to take my truck down for inspection. Same Mercury is sitting in the same spot. I assume the tow yard owns it now.

Now is safe to say after all the effort the owner just gave up. Now the tow company owns a 68 fastback mercury.

 

My neighbor has a 1964 cheby 1/2 ton .... asked his cousin to paint the tailgate to match the rest of the truck. Not a problem.

The cousin daddy dies and leaves him over a million dollars. Cousin is now overseas on vacation and my neighbor is searching for a new tailgate.

 

Paint is such a hard tedious, long process. You really need to do it yourself or be diligent to find a reputable painter.

Finding a paint job for $4k you may find your car in paint jail.  

 

[Bryan G]

I had a very good customer with his first car, a '66 Mustang, rotting away in his driveway. I went out and looked at it once, a basket case. I implored him to just buy one already restored. I closed my business and my father rented the place out to a guy with a pretty shady reputation (sadly, Dad didn't do any research, just rented it to the first guy with cash. I think the first month's rent was the only one that was ever on time, and after a while they didn't come at all.) My old customer brought his baby to this character and the last time I saw it there was hardly anything left of it. Shop owner pulled up stakes and moved who knows where. That was a very sad call I received from my old customer's wife, desperately trying to figure out what happened to that car (and the money they'd paid out.) No idea if they ever found it. 

[kencombs]

Wife's brother had a shop for many years.  Lots of request to do 'project' cars.  He developed a way to protect himself and customer.   Customer was required to pay in advance for work.  X hours at Y rate.  So, maybe the guy prepays for 40-80 or more hours.  When that prepay is used up, work stops.  The shop gets their money(and you'd be surprised at the number of deadbeats there are) and the customer gets to see incremental improvements.  If at any time either are unhappy with quality or progress, the arrangement could be terminated without recourse by either.   And if an owner failed to continue payment for too long, he/she was required to either pay storage or move it.

[DJK]

Heading back to the body shop today to get the issues corrected. I have removed all the trim to make their job easier. It's hard to imagine that it took less time for them to tape off the trim as opposed to removing it!! Fingers crossed.

[DJK]

Got the call last night, car is done, heading down this morning to get it.

[Bobb Horn]

With my 38, I decided to paint it myself when I retired.    I had painted a few cars over the years with good results.

Being in no rush makes the jobs go alot better.     Not much cost in material 15 years ago.....

[DJK]

Car looks much better, I reinstalled the grill, front bumper etc. last night, just  need to install side trim pieces. Cruise in Friday, car show Sunday, weather looks good for a change.

[DJK]

First car show, first trophy!! not sure what place I received, had to leave before presentations for my grandsons last little league all star game(they won the tournament).

[bluebanshee]

Anyone looking for high end paint that's cheaper than Omni should give SPI a call. Can talk to Barry, the owner, if you have specific questions. 

 

Paint costs are out of control. Local jobber sells Omni for what I can get a high  solids clear shipped to me that are used on 6 figure restorations.

 

All paint can look good at first, good paint looks like that long term. 

[James_Douglas]

Be glad you do not live in California and need a car painted...

 

I brought the '49 Desoto Convertible in for paint in 2014 or so and that was after we did all the metal work and except for the main body all the parts were blasted to bare metal and washed with a phosphate to stop flash rust.

 

The sanded the main body primed it.  Shot the Chrysler blue-gray on the correct places, and painted it. With blocking and the like. This was the entire car and everything was off of it.

 

In the end $15K just for the paint shop work, not my metal work.

 

I helped my friend do an XKE. After extensive body reconstruction, that I worked on with my welder, and a concourse paint job...lots and lots of blocking...paint cost was about $40K. Our steel work and my lead work on it added about $25K.  So just the body done to concourse specification was about $60K to $70K.

 

Many of us have said that you cannot do any car to SCCA Concourse specification today for less than $100K even if you do all the work yourself except the paint, chrome, and upholstery.  If you are going to go the full route..do it on something with real market value which means a convertible or a numbers correct 1960's Hemi car or the like.

 

James