Way off topic 1993 caravan transmission

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, JBNeal said:

The last few years of the K-car platform minivans were good ones,

I guess thats where I am at. If I can actually fix the issue, may be able to turn this 27 year old car into a survivor. Otherwise better people then me have sent them to the scrap pile.

 

I really enjoy driving it because of the amount of crap I can shove in it, the dogs like riding in it, the ac works great ... just the electrics of the transmission that is creating a issue.

[Tooljunkie]

The 91 i had was an awesome van. 3 litre. I preferred the 3.3, was a better engine in my opinion. 
 

[Los_Control]

Mother inlaw wanted a caravan, Father said he chose this one for 2 reasons, 1, paint issue been fixed, 2, has the 3.3 that he claims is a better engine ... I honestly do not know the difference. Of course the transmission was bad & bought it cheap.

 

Years ago I bought my wife a 1988 caravan with the 4cyl engine. The van just turned out to be a nightmare.

Never had the power it needed, but did ok. When it ran decent.

Example: we made a 200 mile trip, she driving the van, I was following her with my 1 ton flatbed. She went to pass a slow moving semi, I follow her and cars following me.

She gets 1/2 way and the van starts doing the dance and cuts out ... end up slowing down to 40mph & pull back in behind the semi. Kinda dangerous.

I spent a lot of money taking it to shops to be tuned and correct the issue for months. That was the final straw, I parked it in the backyard for 8 months.

One day I wanted to try again, I was wondering if maybe it had some water in the gas. I put a $1 can of heet in it and a fresh tank of gas ... never had the problem again.

By then I had bought the wife a toyota suv, "I am not going to drive that pos van" We sold it cheap to someone who needed it worse then us.

 

Yeah the older vans had issues, The 1993 model they are comfortable, convenient,  plenty of power with the 3.3, the 4spd od trans is awesome when it works.

If I was still working, I would not waste anytime on this old van. Just replace it. .... Since I have more time and less money, seems to be more of a challenge then anything.

I just have to be careful on where to draw the line.

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, Tooljunkie said:

The 91 i had was an awesome van. 3 litre. I preferred the 3.3, was a better engine in my opinion. 
 

I had a 93 Chrysler T&C.  We were all packed up and ready to come back to Ohio after visiting my folks in Oklahoma, and as soon as I started it, there was a terrible racket from under the hood.  Water pump.  Decided to try to make it to a repair shop about 4 miles up the road into the small town where I had gone to public school.  It shelled out before we got there and dumped the coolant, so had to have it hauled in the last mile.  The guy takes one look at the minivan, and says "I won't work on any of this Japanese stuff."  I had a Chiltons manual, and so I pulled it out and showed him that the 3.3 was an American engine.  So, a few hours later we were on our way.  I don't know where I could have gotten it repaired if it had been the 3.0.

[Tooljunkie]

12 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

I had a 93 Chrysler T&C.  We were all packed up and ready to come back to Ohio after visiting my folks in Oklahoma, and as soon as I started it, there was a terrible racket from under the hood.  Water pump.  Decided to try to make it to a repair shop about 4 miles up the road into the small town where I had gone to public school.  It shelled out before we got there and dumped the coolant, so had to have it hauled in the last mile.  The guy takes one look at the minivan, and says "I won't work on any of this Japanese stuff."  I had a Chiltons manual, and so I pulled it out and showed him that the 3.3 was an American engine.  So, a few hours later we were on our way.  I don't know where I could have gotten it repaired if it had been the 3.0.

I used to do those water pumps in about 30 minutes.

With it on a hoist. Belt tool would hook on pulley,and an air ratchet. Zip all the bolts out and catch coolant in a tub. 
reinstall pump, flip belt back on, snug pulley bolts,lower car and refill with coolant. 
what took the longest was purging the cooling system. wish i had an airlift then. Vacuum fill is way better. 

[Sniper]

I had an 89 Plymouth version, turbo 4 in it. 

 

It was a $400 beater when I bought and the larger turbo I put in it cost more than the van did, lol. 

[MackTheFinger]

I swapped out a motor in a Plymouth van once. IIRC it was a Mitsubishi V6 motor. A friend's OL had run it dry and blew it up. Junkyard motor was $300 and I charged her $150 to swap it out. I was impressed with the amount of power it had. Van ended up with my friend's brother in KC and now that I think about it those people are all underground now. Buddy died in '98. There were 9 kids in his family, only one of them's left, and she's nuttier than a monkey on crack.. ?

[Los_Control]

13 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

There were 9 kids in his family, only one of them's left, and she's nuttier than a monkey on crack.. ?

Oh Lord, I am feeling the itch .... I just hope I can drive my wife to the grocery store with no voodoo hex.

I drove it again today, no issues. Not sure what I would do if I saw monkeys  .... Suspect I would be looking up @MackTheFinger address 

[MackTheFinger]

14 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Oh Lord, I am feeling the itch .... I just hope I can drive my wife to the grocery store with no voodoo hex.

I drove it again today, no issues. Not sure what I would do if I saw monkeys  .... Suspect I would be looking up @MackTheFinger address 

 

I'll be happy to help but if those are flying monkeys you're on your own!!

[Los_Control]

Well she finally made it into the lineup. Got it on blocks and a little cleaning before I work on it.

The fuel pump quit working ... Lady Belle kinda forced her way to the front of the line

 

While finally searching for electrical diagrams for this minivan ... I have a book but does not cover the vans, only the cars. I want to know where the fuel pump relay is.

I know for a fact the fuel pump was changed 5 years ago and has about 30k miles on it.

My troubleshooting went as far as finding out the relay controls both spark & fuel, is called a ASD, (automatic shutdown device)  Shuts both fuel & spark off at same time.

Ether in the TBI, fires right up, I know electrical is good. Unless a bad wire to fuel pump.

I look on rockauto for a fuel pump .... they sell one for $33 <---- I know that is the one the father inlaw bought & installed  

I have the one for $92 on the way and they claim tested to last 150K miles.

 

 

While searching I find out I have a A604 transmission. With a little more searching  I found a pdf to download to explain troubleshooting ... how correct it is I have no idea.

I think it is possible I have a bad electrical pig tail with the description.  They claim I need a 5/32" drill bit in the female plug. Should be a bit of drag when sliding it in or out.

If it is loose it will send a erratic signal to the computer .... It will cause exactly what it is doing ... The plug really locks in good and is a wiggle, pull pry to get it to loosen.

I really can imagine the plug being bad and causing the issues ... the pdf also supplies the part # for a replacement pig tail.

 

Just in case it is not the plug, The troubleshooting guide gives step by step instructions using a multimeter to test all electrical components ... I at least feel I have a fighting chance to find & fix the issue. 

 

Curios what others think about my tire wear. We bought these tires about 4 years ago, maybe 25k miles on them. We bought all 4 as a set and had the front end aligned same time.

My first thought is they messed up the alignment. On closer inspection, they are worn on both sides and right down to the wear bars in the middle.

Both left & right front tires are the same wear pattern.

Wondering if this is a characteristic of a front wheel drive car? Lack of rotating the tires, wrong air pressure?

Could weak front struts cause this? Van will bottom out on bumps if you do not slow down. Car drives very well on the freeway at 80mph no pulling or vibration.

 

 

[Merle Coggins]

Should have been rotating them every few thousand miles. FWD vehicles eat up front tires because they are used for both driving and braking forces. Rear tires are just along for the ride and get very little wear, comparatively. 

[Los_Control]

15 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

Should have been rotating them every few thousand miles. FWD vehicles eat up front tires because they are used for both driving and braking forces. Rear tires are just along for the ride and get very little wear, comparatively. 

Thanks Merle ... sounds like auto school 101, To be honest I really have not had any fwd vehicles for any length of time. Always trucks or rear wheel drive.

 

My first thoughts when I noticed them a few months ago was the mechanic did a poor job at the alignment. Was going to travel to a different shop and have a new alignment done with new tires.

Then yesterday with them off and looking at them ... I thought it was more likely my fault for not rotating .... Seems I have heard this advice somewhere in the past but forgot it.

.

[Sniper]

I've had several FWD mopars and they will eat front tires like Merle said, you have to rotate them for longest life.

 

I am generally easy on tires, my OEM ones on the work truck have just about 92k miles on them.  But it's not a FWD.

[JBNeal]

Tire rotation every other oil change was the rule of thumb we followed on the fwds...but if you've got nosedive on braking, all 4 struts and shocks need replacement.  Ppl think struts and shocks are just for a smoother ride, but they greatly assist in braking.  If you have pronounced nosedive, them rear tires are attempting to leave the road, so rear braking is almost non-existent, putting greater wear on the front brakes and extending braking distance. Fresh struts resist nosedive, planting the rear tires firmly on the road, making them brakes work better and decreasing braking distance.  New struts will require 4 wheel alignment tho...afterwards, that buggy will seem new again.  Also, your tire wear will even out as traction is increased on the rear, reducing wear on the front.

[Tooljunkie]

Tire wear looks normal, rotation would have lessened the wear. As mentioned, suspension plays a part in wear too. 
have seen many with the front tires burned right off. A little over exuberance with the throttle. 
 

honestly, the tire looks like its worn pretty even, no extreme wear inside or out,and no cupping. 

[Los_Control]

I think you are all correct ... possibly I knew the answer myself why brought up the worn struts.

The tire wear is even with no cupping to suggest suspension problems. And it drives/steers good.

There is a intersection near the house with a double whoopty dip, timing is just right as you pass over 1 & hit 2nd, the struts bottom out. BAM!

Then also need to slow down on rough roads and cornering is lost and slow down etc... I do not mind driving slow like a old fart

But now I believe is wearing the tires out prematurely and hitting my pocket book .... Does my best Fred Sanford impression!

Along with tire rotation hopefully will get more then 25k miles out of a tire rated for 70k miles.

 

I ordered the struts this morning. Cheaper then I thought .... seems I looked up a few years ago and thought they were $150 each ... no clue what I was looking at now.

Sheesh they had some for $11. Better ones kyb gas were $40. I found some that were in the middle discounted to a lower price of $15 each

Just seems silly to not change them while I am at this point.

 

[Dave72dt]

The struts that were higher priced back then were probably struts with the coil springs installed as an assembly and are the safest method of replacement and will come with a new strut mount.  If you do not have the proper equipment to safely remove the springs from the strut assembly, you MUST take them to someone who does.

[Los_Control]

47 minutes ago, Dave72dt said:

The struts that were higher priced back then were probably struts with the coil springs installed as an assembly and are the safest method of replacement and will come with a new strut mount.

Yes you are correct. While I have never changed them before ... Learning the difference. Would certainly be easier to buy them with new coil springs. My old ones are in good condition. No rust, tires wore even with no cupping ... I feel confident re-using the old springs. With youtube dummies like me can change them .... famous last words.

 

Mark the cam alignment bolt

clock the springs

Mount the strut in vice and compress spring evenly till will rotate freely on strut

6 point 10mm with a 13/16" socket to remove mounting bolt.

Transfer parts to new strut, 75 foot pounds torque on mounting bolt

Release spring compressor evenly while lining up the clock marks.

re-install strut on car, lining up lower cam bolt. 65 pounds torque + 1/4 turn on lower bolts, 21 pounds on upper bolts.

 

What I remember watching the video, Hoping the rubber isolaters will be reusable. Lower looks fair, top being protected should be better.

They suggested renting the tool from autozone, 1 hour drive to pick it up and again to return it ... I ordered this from ebay yesterday for $30.

Naturally we need to be safe in everything we do. Like not stand in line of fire if spring under compression comes loose.

 

 

 

 

[Sniper]

I don't use a spring compressor, no need.  Been doing it like this since the 80's.

 

 

[Los_Control]

Just now, Sniper said:

I don't use a spring compressor, no need.  Been doing it like this since the 80's.

SHHHH! my wife might hear that and ask why I bought another tool  ? ? ?

 

 

I watched that, was curious how they removed the spring in the first place. So I googled some more and watched a few more vids.

One guy used a floor jack under the rotor and removed the bolts for lower control arm and lowered jack to release spring ... too much work.

 

Another kid actually stood right over the top of it with a impact gun .... very very slowly backed off the nut using his weight on top of the spring.

I thought I was watching a suspense movie and the ambulance crew was on the way for the next scene.

Surprisingly the spring popped up about a inch or so. Kinda disappointing ending of the movie 

So I see that slowly removing the nut and using your weight works, He said if you just zipped off the nut quickly the spring would fly 50'.

He also used same method to re-install it. He showed a rented spring compressor, he thought it was crap and easier to do it his way.

 

What I see with people using this technique, They are not clocking the spring and top hat. I dunno maybe is not as important as I thought ... also seems they were not marking the alignment bolt. The other thing is they were on the floor wrestling with them.

I like the idea of putting it in the vice to hold it for me ... while standing up, easier on my back. Am standing safely to the side. Easy to clock and put back exactly as you found it.

I see it can be done without. Never know someday I may want to do some front end work on my daily driver truck and need the tool there also.

[Sniper]

The weight of the vehicle compresses it.  I'll zip the nut most of the way off, take the hat nuts off, then lift the vehicle up letting the suspension droop.  Put my jack under the LCA, jack up the suspension and take the nut the rest of the way off, slowly is fine.  You are out of any conceivable line of fire if you think about where to stand before you remove the nut, which even a spring compressor cannot say.  Let the suspension droop again, take the lower bolt out and pull the parts out.   

 

Once the new stuff is ready I'll loosely mount the hat into the vehicle, slide the spring and strut up into it, sometimes you have to put the hat in with the spring and strut, depends on the setup.  Now put in the lower bolt and jack up the LCA, start the nut when enough is sticking out to do so, make sure the spring and hart are clocked as you do this part.  Lower the vehicle onto it's suspension and torque the hat and strut nuts as well as the lower bolts.  Align vehicle, done.  With air tools maybe a half hour taking your time.  You can actually do both sides at once, but first time might be easier to do one side, sort out the specifics and then do the other side.

 

Now I left out all the pedantic safety nonsense we all should know and if we don't, well maybe this isn't a job for you. 

[kencombs]

I just buy the loaded strut package.  Springs age and sag too.  Might as well do it all at once since it will likely be a once in a lifetime (car not me) job. Costs a few bucks more but much, much faster.  And that safety thing.

 

los , I’m not sure what you referred to as an alignment bolt. 

[Los_Control]

19 minutes ago, kencombs said:

los , I’m not sure what you referred to as an alignment bolt. 

Lower mounting bolt is a cam and the strut hole is oblong. Is part of the front end alignment. So you loosen the top bolt then you rotate lower bolt to adjust the wheel in & out for alignment. If I mark it and use 2 wrenches to hold & install it exactly where it was removed .... technically it wont need a new alignment ... Or at least it will be close enough can drive it to a shop to get it aligned.  Other cars may be different ... just what my car has.

 

@sniper that makes sense also. I still may do that. I have it supported on jack stands with suspension hanging. I plan to support the rotors/axles with the floor jack while removing strut. Axles were replaced along with transmission 30k+ miles ago and do not want to add stress to them hanging with no support.

"With air tools maybe a half hour taking your time. " I have to thank you for the laugh   I have air tools.

 

I worked 3 days and got the fuel tank lowered sitting on the jack, hoses & wires disconnected, took a day off and today I need to get it disconnected from the fill tube.

Had to do grocery shopping also today and brother called we talked for 2 hours on the phone.  I may get it loose from the car today.

Still a lil less then 1/2 tank of gas in it ... that will be another day to drain it & get it on the table to work on... day 6? Then will need to replace the fuel pump & re-install the tank. When retired we do not get in a hurry to do anything 

[JBNeal]

Those hooks-on-bolt strut spring compressors are not perfect...had one slip off the spring during strut removal on a Saturn in 2014 and I almost had a heart attack.  Apparently I had clamped onto an area that had some penetrating oil that leaked onto it...on installation, I rolled the springs around in the dirt then wiped everything down with clean shop towels before clamping again...haven't touched a strut since, but have done plenty of shocks on independent front suspensions, and the R&I for those is similar to the strut spring removal vid:  raise vehicle for shock removal clearance, lift suspension to remove upper nut, remove shock from underneath, install reverse of removal. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by JBNeal

[Los_Control]

@JBNeal Thanks that is a good tip before I use the tool ... I also like @Snipermethod .... It seems like basic common sense.

The tip about having grease on the spring and things failing .... Good solid tip to keep in the back of my mind while working on this.

I think if I had a $500 snap on spring compressor, probably not a issue. Since I bought a $30 compressor you never know what might happen.

It should be delivered Thursday afternoon, will take a look at it then and start on struts Friday. I may not use the new tool.

 

Right now I finally got the gas tank out this morning and realize rockauto sent me the wrong fuel pump. Incredible they offer 4 fuel pumps for the model/year ... The 2 cheap $30 pumps will work. The 2 Good $90 pumps offered are for a different vehicle. Working on a return for rockauto now, but trying to learn more about it ... possibly I need to order a conversion kit to go with it .... Fuel pump is on hold.  Delphi fuel pumps make many OEM pumps and tested to work 150k miles ... I do not want to ever replace this pump again. I want a good one... but it needs to fit. Yesterday had to order a new rubber bung for filler neck ... I have time before can install tank anyways.

 

On a good note, What started this thread was the intermittent electrical issue with the transmission. I was wondering if any old mopar guys ran across this before.

Almost positive it is a short or loose connection because it works perfect 90% of the time til it does not .... let it sit and restart and it works again.

Showing a picture of the ECU (computer for trans) You notice the wiring harness has a bolt in the center to attach & keep wiring tight.

Just showing because is exactly the same on the shift solenoid, other end of the harness. The center bolt to hold the wiring is loose as a goose on the transmission side.

Couple more threads and it would have fallen out. Reach down and wiggle the harness, will lift off 1/4" from solenoid controller.  I certainly found a loose connection.

May or may not be the issue, but confident I will fix this transmission problem.

 

No more work on the van today ... going to go in and take a shower and clean clothes ... wife been wanting a driving lesson on my chevy truck and the manual trans. Good cool afternoon to go for a drive.