Carter B&B Carburetor Question/Suggestion

[bartenderfloyd]

I just picked up a 1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe and the first thing I noticed was below the carburetor is pretty wet with fuel.  So much that I don't want to pull it into my garage until that part is sorted out.  The engine runs well.  My experience is with fuel injection so carburetors are new to me.  2 questions.  First, how do I identify the model carburetor?  I see on 1 side the "Carter Ball & Ball" and I see 2 stampings, 6-595 and JO L6H2.  On the other side I see C-660.  Second, should I rebuild it or replace it with an upgraded model not knowing the history of the current carburetor?

[Booger]

thats a D6H2.  theres a lot of rust going on there. that nut on the intake flange doesnt look seated. when you replace those gas and vacuum lines, put an inline filter

on.  theres rebuild videos in the forum and on you tube. Lets see pictures of that biz coupe. get that thing running right before it catches on fire.

Edited February 14, 2021 by michaelmarks697@yahoo.com
speling

[HotRodTractor]

This could be as simple as the float being set too high. 

[bartenderfloyd]

1 hour ago, michaelmarks697@yahoo.com said:

thats a D6H2.  theres a lot of rust going on there. that nut on the intake flange doesnt look seated. when you replace those gas and vacuum lines, put an inline filter

on.  theres rebuild videos in the forum and on you tube. Lets see pictures of that biz coupe. get that thing running right before it catches on fire.

Thanks for the info. I'll order a kit today.

[rallyace]

Regarding float level. Today's fuels are less dense than the fuels of 70 years ago. You will need to set the float slightly lower than spec to gain enough float pressure to close the needle valve.

 

[Booger]

1 hour ago, rallyace said:

Regarding float level. Today's fuels are less dense than the fuels of 70 years ago. You will need to set the float slightly lower than spec to gain enough float pressure to close the needle valve.

 

thats a good point. Has anyone used a universal N228 1 barrel with good results?

[knuckleharley]

Being familiar with FI systems,you need to understand that the process of starting one of these old cars "cold" is not as simple. You need to use the manual choke and to pump the HELL out of the accelerator pedal to get enough gas to the engine.

 

Truthfully,my best advise to you is to install a 6 volt electric fuel pump near your gas tank to avoid all that hassle. This will eliminate all that pumping. I prefer to have a dash swith on mine to cut it on and off,but I still use the stock mechanical fuel pump for driving.

[knuckleharley]

2 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

Being familiar with FI systems,you need to understand that the process of starting one of these old cars "cold" is not as simple. You need to use the manual choke and to pump the HELL out of the accelerator pedal to get enough gas to the engine.

 

Truthfully,my best advise to you is to install a 6 volt electric fuel pump near your gas tank to avoid all that hassle. This will eliminate all that pumping. I prefer to have a dash swith on mine to cut it on and off,but I still use the stock mechanical fuel pump for driving.

BTW,I bought mine from Summit Racing for less than 40 bucks. Airtex E8902 for 6 volt. If you convert to 12 volt,your car will obviously need a 12 volt fuel pump. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by knuckleharley

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, rallyace said:

Regarding float level. Today's fuels are less dense than the fuels of 70 years ago. You will need to set the float slightly lower than spec to gain enough float pressure to close the needle valve.

 

Thanks for the tip! I did not know that.

[allbizz49]

Did you pop the hood and take look while it was running? That bowl gasket looks wet, maybe you can catch where it's weeping from. Check those screws to see if they are loose. I'm sure a rebuild wouldn't hurt but might not be necessary if it's running good. 

[Tom Skinner]

In his post Rallyace makes a good point about setting the float a tad lower than Manual suggests (I think that the manual call out 5/64" from the top of Carb edge).

The other reason may be the needle and seat may be allowing some fuel past after shutting down (That's where gas enters the carb through the Brass Fitting)

Some times that needle is worn or damaged from even tiny rust particles from the gas tank.

I cut new gaskets from stock - its saves on those rebuild Kits. Open the top of the Carb set the float down a little, check your needle and seat.

put in a homemade gasket (I cut mine with an Exacto Knife and hole punch) and if everything looks good tighten those screws and test drive.

You maybe lucky and can put off a Carb rebuild.

Tom

[bartenderfloyd]

1 hour ago, knuckleharley said:

Being familiar with FI systems,you need to understand that the process of starting one of these old cars "cold" is not as simple. You need to use the manual choke and to pump the HELL out of the accelerator pedal to get enough gas to the engine.

 

Truthfully,my best advise to you is to install a 6 volt electric fuel pump near your gas tank to avoid all that hassle. This will eliminate all that pumping. I prefer to have a dash swith on mine to cut it on and off,but I still use the stock mechanical fuel pump for driving.

Good idea.  I like the idea of an electric fuel pump.  This one starts pretty well though.  I just went for a spin around the block a few times and it is 30 degrees out.  2 pumps and the engine fired right up.

[Tom Skinner]

Also at second glance it looks like you may have 2 Gaskets up top in there - they - looks doubled up???

Not to knock anything Knuckleharley said - because I have upmost respect for him, however, one shouldn't need to pump the accelerator pedal like hell to start one of these flatheads. One pump down a third, or to the floor to shoot gas into the manufold should do. Otherwise perhaps you need to look at plugs, condenser, coil, connections etc for a reason for a slow start. Grinding along to start it floods the engine and cannot help the starter at all.

[bartenderfloyd]

4 minutes ago, Tom Skinner said:

Also at second glance it looks like you may have 2 Gaskets up top in there - they - looks doubled up???

Not to knock anything Knuckleharley said - because I have upmost respect for him, however, one shouldn't need to pump the accelerator pedal like hell to start one of these flatheads. One pump down a third, or to the floor to shoot gas into the manufold should do. Otherwise perhaps you need to look at plugs, condenser, coil, connections etc for a reason for a slow start. Grinding along to start it floods the engine and cannot help the starter at all.

Yes, all that in good time.  I'm actually anxious to rebuild the carb because I have never done one before.  I'm the type that believes "If it flows, it goes" so after the rebuild that will be next.  The plugs look like they have been in there a long time and the wires look the same so that will be after that.  The engine does run well though.

[Tom Skinner]

Also, Do the new electric fuel pumps have a regulator for pressure? Our manual pumps run between 3-6 pounds of pressure.

I think electric one push it out more than 6. I do not use one. I have run regular 558's for 47 years with only one break down on the road.

I drove my date home to Hasbrook Heights NJ one freezing rainy night in January 1975 (Her Dad told me she had to be home by midnight)

Being from a Polish Catholic Family and all I had her Mary Ellen home at 11:57PM. Her dad was a Machinist and I didn't want to piss him off. I turned around to go back to Bloomfield NJ and about a block short of Rt 46 my Chrysler died. It started and stalled as I touched the gas pedal, I knew it was the Fuel Pump. Of course I had an extra in the trunk. I didn't want to wreck my Pea Coat so I took it off and laid under the 251 and changed out that fuel pump in record time (15-20 minutes) leaving off the heat shield as I worked. Shuddering and shaken wet I jumped back into my Chrysler Royal and started her up. But was I ever glad the Heater worked good. I made it home to my apartment building OK in Bloomfield 40 minutes later. It was around 30 degrees out. All I had on was a cotton shirt. Ahh to be young and strong again. Anyway

I dated Mary Ellen until the spring of that year, but we went our separate ways after that. True story, ain't Life Grand?

[Tom Skinner]

Didn't mean to double post

Edited February 14, 2021 by Tom Skinner

[Tom Skinner]

Bartender Floyd,

That was near Rt3 I believe near the George Washington Bridge. By the way my Uncle Sonny Ryan owned a Bar (The Coronet) in East Orange NJ on Dodd Street and Prospect Street. We would visit there often as Beer was 25 cents a Glass and a Fiver would keep you in Pretzels, Hard Boiled Eggs and Beer for a whole Football Game on Sunday Afternoons

[desoto1939]

Up on the flange of the air horn which is where the air cleaner unit sits look to th eleft of where the fuel line comes into the carb.  On the flange is stamped the model of your carburetor and in a prior post they told you the number but did not tell you to locate the carb  number.  This is the information that you need to supply to get the correct carb kit.

 

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Tom Skinner said:

Also at second glance it looks like you may have 2 Gaskets up top in there - they - looks doubled up???

Not to knock anything Knuckleharley said - because I have upmost respect for him, however, one shouldn't need to pump the accelerator pedal like hell to start one of these flatheads. One pump down a third, or to the floor to shoot gas into the manufold should do. Otherwise perhaps you need to look at plugs, condenser, coil, connections etc for a reason for a slow start. Grinding along to start it floods the engine and cannot help the starter at all.

Ever had one sit for a few weeks without starting it?

 

No problem starting them if you start and run them every day,but let one sit for a month  in cold weather and then give it a try.

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Tom Skinner said:

Also, Do the new electric fuel pumps have a regulator for pressure? Our manual pumps run between 3-6 pounds of pressure.

I think electric one push it out more than 6.  

The 6 volt electric fuel pumps are made for old cars and trucks,and pump a maximum of 6psi. I know for a fact the one I listed from Summit does. I have one on each of my 51 Fords.

 

I do have a undash switch to turn them on and off as I normally only use them if the cars have been parked for a week or more,or it's really cold outside. Even then,I turn them off after the engine fires and starts to run smooth. They are just an aid to starting and to keep from draining the battery.

 

BTW,be VERY careful to NOT put a high pressure fuel pump to your old carbureatered system if you  have converted to 12 volts. These old carbs don't stand a chance of dealing with the pressures of a fuel pump designed for fuel-injected systems. Plenty of 12 volt electric fuel pumps are for sale for carbuerated systems,but you need to make sure that is what you are buying,and not one designed for FI.

 

BTW,even then it is a good idea to install a pressure regulator inline for safety sake.

Edited February 14, 2021 by knuckleharley

[48ply1stcar]

Does anyone remember a post about using a New Ford Carb that may have been used on a 6 cylinder Maverick.  I don't know if it was a one or two barrel.

[Sam Buchanan]

59 minutes ago, 48ply1stcar said:

Does anyone remember a post about using a New Ford Carb that may have been used on a 6 cylinder Maverick.  I don't know if it was a one or two barrel.

 

Might be this one:

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1124845&jsn=3

 

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, 48ply1stcar said:

Does anyone remember a post about using a New Ford Carb that may have been used on a 6 cylinder Maverick.  I don't know if it was a one or two barrel.

If it was a  6 cylinder Maverick,it was a 1 barrel carb.

[Dodgeb4ya]

If it runs well I would not get into putting a different carb on it.

Rust on the base means possibly icing up at times in cold weather...caused by a stuck heat riser.

The carb looks pretty clean and might of already had a back yard rebuild with a too  high of float setting or a slightly leaky needle and seat after engine shut down. Leaking a small amount of fuel down onto the throttle plate and shaft....that being probably what you are seeing.

Also the carb top cover looks to be sweating a very small amount of fuel too.

The carb top needs to be sanded flat on a piece of glass.

Easy commonly done fix on the B&B 1 barrel carbs.

These carbs are very easy to rebuild....if you know what to do and how to do it.

And...they work very well and trouble free when serviced right.

 

[wagoneer]

Diving deep into the technicals, the Chrysler et al engineers thought through cold, and long standing starts.
 

my carb is also frequently wet , and I actually saw gas splash out from what I guess is the accelerator or something . Even so, my car fires up almost instantly. If it’s sitting it requires about 3 seconds with the choke while the gas gets pulled through the line (air leaks in your fuel line also cause problems due to poor vacuum). 
 

I’m scheduling a rebuild regardless.

 

I recently replaced my mechanical fuel pump and that made all the positive difference. I don’t use my electric anymore. I found the electric plus mechanical put too much fuel pressure (>6 psi) do I put an inline regulator .

 

Hard starts have more to do with state of the carb, and your engine timing.

 

you should check whether you have the original gas tank ; if so, then you don’t need a fuel filter as you have an oil lite filter in the tank that doesn’t it for you.

 

one last thought — you should the original drivers manual - they do specify A single pump of the peddle presumably to wet the carb

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by wagoneer