How to make a dolly for my body?

[MarcDeSoto]

I think I've decided to remove the body from my 48 DeSoto 3 window coupe.  I've decided to remove the two doors, and maybe the trunk lid too to reduced the weight.  What's the best way to make a dolly for the body?  I think I will put the body on a dolly with big casters, so I can easily roll it around.  Maybe I could make it out of a 4 X 8 piece of 1" plywood and use 10" tall legs made out of 4 X 4 lumber?  Here are some illustrations of the body (4 door), the rubber body to frame insulators, and the frame.

 

 

[Andydodge]

Interesting that there are a number of different rubber insulators, studs & bolts.......I would have thought that it would have made more economic sense and in fact ease of assembly to have basically the same fittings at each point.........I must be missing something...........lol........andyd 

[Eneto-55]

Do you have a drawing of your dolly design?  I don't understand if the plywood would be down near the floor, or will it be probably right up under the body?  Is 10" enough to roll the frame out from under the body?  (I did the work on my frame outside, but we were out in the country w/ no one else close around.  Strapped the frame over against a corner fence post to get at the underside to clean it up & paint.)

[Los_Control]

Here is one version I was just looking at today ... seems solid to me.

 

[sidevalvepete]

Pic is from Vins post on your other topic about removing the body. I would give serious thought to this. Fab up or adapt an old trailer into a rotisserie. Body then accessible from all angles for repair through to paint. Also is mobile. A bit of organising but will save time and effort further into your build....

[MarcDeSoto]

5 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Here is one version I was just looking at today ... seems solid to me.

 

I don't think the dolly is made to put on before you pull out the chassis.  I think you put the body on the dolly after you remove the chassis.  Otherwise, the dolly would be in the way.  My body from cowl to deck lid is about 10 feet long.  Should my dolly also be 10 feet long, or should it be shorter?  Would 7 or 8 feet long be long enough?  Thanks!  Marc.

Edited February 14, 2021 by MarcDeSoto

[Tooljunkie]

I guess it all depends on what you are planning to do with the body off the frame. If you are using it to move body around while doing bodywork and prep, sure. 
but if you are welding in floor sections, then steel is a wiser choice. Lots of shops have a cart of sorts, for setting the body on so it can be moved around shop for various tasks. 
i built a rotisserie that fits my drive on hoist, works well. 

[Eneto-55]

Obvious to all, but the rougher the cement surface, the larger the casters needed, like maybe some from construction scaffolding.  I didn't need to move mine around - good clearance to work underneath was more important.  If there was even such a thing as a rotisserie back in 1980 when I did mine, I was unaware of it.  I wouldn't have purchased one anyway, however, because I was doing a real 'low-bucks' operation.  My brother took the body off of his 49 DeSoto during that same time frame, and set it down on some cushions on the floor, and rolled it onto its side.  He just had to keep something non-flammable over the part of the cushions exposed to sparks while welding, then watch it for some time after, to be sure it wasn't going to catch fire.

I guess it really comes down to what you will want to do on the body itself while it is off of the frame (as Tool Junkie has already mentioned).  Also, some completely reassemble the drive train with the body off, while I didn't overhaul & reinstall the engine until after the frame was finished and the body back on.  

Edited February 14, 2021 by Eneto-55

[Sniper]

11 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Here is one version I was just looking at today ... seems solid to me.

 

 

I'm a fan of overkill, see my gantry crane write up, lol.  I think I'd add some diagonal braces on this to prevent wracking, but other than that nice setup.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Sniper

[Frank Elder]

As they told us in bootcamp sometimes a pile of bricks is just a pile of bricks........don’t over think it. Construct the same type wood dolly as in the picture, run some long bolts to connect with, then use a chain hoist to lift the front enough to place two ten foot 4x4s across sawbucks under the front. Lower until you make contact, repeat process in rear and lower until you make contact, do not unhook the hoist. Pull the chassis out from under and replace saw horses with your dolly and bolt it on.

I have removed at least twelve bodies from frames using this method.

Easy peasy.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Frank Elder

[MarcDeSoto]

Sniper, that's an impressive gantry that you built!  But I think my HOA would not allow me to have that large equipment outside of my garage.  Thanks Frank!  I didn't realize the 4X4's needed to be 10 feet.  Would 8 ft. work?  Another thing about removing the chassis out the front is removing the steering post.  I don't think you can remove just the post?  I think I would have to remove the steering gear from the frame and maybe also remove the steering gear from the pitman arm?  any comments on that???

Edited February 14, 2021 by MarcDeSoto

[sidevalvepete]

Steering wheel off and undoing steering box mounting bolts enables the shaft to drop down. Depending on how much head room you need it can often be enough to get the rolling chassis out from underneath

[Los_Control]

8 hours ago, Sniper said:

I'm a fan of overkill, see my gantry crane write up, lol.  I think I'd add some diagonal braces on this to prevent wracking, but other than that nice setup.

I agree 100% with over building something.

Same time the builder is 73 years old, he built it to hold the little model A body in the background. Most likely will disassemble it when finished.

Is purpose built for 1 use only .... who knows maybe his kid or grandkids may save it from the lumber pile.

1 hour ago, MarcDeSoto said:

I think I would have to remove the steering gear from the frame and maybe also remove the steering gear from the pitman arm?  any comments on that???

Perfect time to go through the steering box and access if it needs maintenance.

@keithb7 made a nice video will show you what is involved

 

 

[keithb7]

1 minute ago, Los_Control said:

 

@keithb7 made a nice video will show you what is involved

 

 

Thanks for the plug. Be sure to watch part two. You can almost see the light bulb going off in between my ears. 

[Frank Elder]

3 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Sniper, that's an impressive gantry that you built!  But I think my HOA would not allow me to have that large equipment outside of my garage.  Thanks Frank!  I didn't realize the 4X4's needed to be 10 feet.  Would 8 ft. work?  Another thing about removing the chassis out the front is removing the steering post.  I don't think you can remove just the post?  I think I would have to remove the steering gear from the frame and maybe also remove the steering gear from the pitman arm?  any comments on that???

The width of your car is five to six feet, that leaves you two feet on each side to play with. Plus your sawbuck leg spread is about eighteen inches......so that only leaves you a small amount of space to roll the chassis out without knocking the body to the floor, I would not recommend eight.

On mine I took the sawzall to the steering shaft in the engine compartment.and installed a borgenson joint (small u joint) when I put the body back on. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Frank Elder

[MarcDeSoto]

13 minutes ago, Frank Elder said:

On mine I took the sawzall to the shaft and installed a borgenson joint (small u joint) when I put the body back on. 

Yes, Frank, the width of the car from tire to tire is 6 feet.  8 feet would only give me 1 foot on each side to move the chassis out.  I just went to HD and they do have ten foot 4 X 4's, so that's what I'm going to buy.  I don't understand what you are talking about with your last sentence.  

[Tooljunkie]

Frank is referring to steering shaft.  Its a universal joint. With two collars that fit the steering shaft. 

[Frank Elder]

@MarcDeSoto cutting the steering shaft so it is easier to take the body off and installing a joint when the body is back on to have steering.

[MarcDeSoto]

I was thinking of making my dolly about 8 feet long and about 6 feet wide.  Does that sound good, or is there a better design online somewhere?  Here is some advice I got from a friend who has never made one, but it sounds like good advice:

 

Marc, what if you were to roll under the car with a roll of blue tape, a tape measure, and a plumb bob, then locate the body-to-frame mounts and drop the plumb line straight down to the garage floor at each bolt, marking the landing points with tape.  Once they are all marked, measure and connect the dots to make your dolly template,  so it supports the body at exactly the same points as the frame would.  You could even attach extra lumber atop the dolly top rails, so the frame is supported only at those points.  

 

In this way, when you lower the body onto the dolly, you will be sure not to squash any vulnerable low hanging sheet metal, or other fragile bits that may not want the full weight of the body upon them.  Since those points support the body when it's on the frame, they should be safe on the dolly.  Keep in mind that you can make small adjustments to the dolly as you lower the body, iso long as you build it close to the shape indicated by the tape marks on the floor.  Buy good quality locking caster wheels, too, just to eliminate frustration.

[Eneto-55]

I scanned a photo from when I had my body blocked up.  You can see the 15 gallon drums, and the 2x6s extending out from under the body.  Unless the body metal is badly rusted, you do not need to worry about its weight distorting the lower edge where it sits on the cross support boards.  4x4's would be better, sure, but the 2x6s I used were plenty strong.  I worked for hours & hours under the car, and there was never any shifting.  (Of course, I DID also leave the chain hoists connected overhead the whole time as a safety measure.)

[EDIT: You can also see that I had the frame rolled underneath at the time I took the picture.]

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Eneto-55

[MarcDeSoto]

Here is a good video on how to make a car body dolly out of wood.  

 

 

[Eneto-55]

I skipped some of the 'talk time' at the beginning, so if he said why the air tire casters were a "bad idea" I didn't hear it.  Difficult to roll?  I would think that steel casters with fairly thin hard rubber on them would be the way to go, like scaffolding casters, but I don't know, really.

 

That looked like treated pine he was using, both the 2x6s and the 2x4s.  In my experience, the latest version of treated lumber is not stable.  It twists as it dries, and with anything built of wood you need to carefully pick pieces that have straight grain as much as possible, so that there are no areas where the grain pattern crosses diagonally from one side to the other.  That's why it broke for him.  Pay more for the wood, and use spruce, or if you expect to use it long term, use hardwoods.  Two, if you want to have 4x4s, get two bys, and double them up.  Better yet, sandwich plywood in the middle, and use glue as well, then screw them together.  You can also easily alternate the overlaps on the corners that way, which makes a much stronger joint.  The double 2x4s will prevent the splitting, and most of the twisting or other warpage as well.

 

But as to 2x6s, I would still say that carefully chosen pieces of high quality lumber would have done the job just fine.  But I'm still wondering what the issue was with the air tire casters.  (I've had enough experience with wheeling cement in wheel-barrels, both ancient ones with all steel wheels and 'modern' ones with air tires to know the advantages of the air tires.)

[oldodge41]

I've never done this so just thinking out loud. Strength, yes very important. But don't forget about stability. Sitting on the original frame, the body is very stable on the track width and wheelbase. Moving the casters to an area beneath the main body creates a shorter wheelbase and possibly track width as well. Make sure, especially when rolling around that it isn't tipsy. Think engine stand, rolling around is fine but avoid quick stops and sharp turns. 

[Hamilton]

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One of my friends did something like this when resto-modding his '57 Nomad.   Simple enough and fairly inexpensive, particularly given that he recouped much of the cost by selling the hoists after completion.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLNeA2yp80k

Edited February 15, 2021 by Hamilton

[Frank Elder]

6 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

I skipped some of the 'talk time' at the beginning, so if he said why the air tire casters were a "bad idea" I didn't hear it.  Difficult to roll?  I would think that steel casters with fairly thin hard rubber on them would be the way to go, like scaffolding casters, but I don't know, really.

 

That looked like treated pine he was using, both the 2x6s and the 2x4s.  In my experience, the latest version of treated lumber is not stable.  It twists as it dries, and with anything built of wood you need to carefully pick pieces that have straight grain as much as possible, so that there are no areas where the grain pattern crosses diagonally from one side to the other.  That's why it broke for him.  Pay more for the wood, and use spruce, or if you expect to use it long term, use hardwoods.  Two, if you want to have 4x4s, get two bys, and double them up.  Better yet, sandwich plywood in the middle, and use glue as well, then screw them together.  You can also easily alternate the overlaps on the corners that way, which makes a much stronger joint.  The double 2x4s will prevent the splitting, and most of the twisting or other warpage as well.

 

But as to 2x6s, I would still say that carefully chosen pieces of high quality lumber would have done the job just fine.  But I'm still wondering what the issue was with the air tire casters.  (I've had enough experience with wheeling cement in wheel-barrels, both ancient ones with all steel wheels and 'modern' ones with air tires to know the advantages of the air tires.)

Yes, homemade gluelam beams would be stronger and more stable.