Weird Frame Number - 1948 Plymouth

[tollertdi]

My 48 Plymouth that I'm restoring has been in the family since new.  It's never been wrecked.  My frame number is

 P156I7I72 

and does not match the motor number.   The I's in the frame number are alphabetical " I " not 1's. 

 

This is really strange.  Has anyone else seen this?

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

in those days the I was use for the '1' in all cases and would have been on the original engine if still in the car....it would be more strange and rather questionable if you  had a 1 and no the letter I

Edited May 15, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[greg g]

Typical of many cars of those days, engine swaps were pretty common.  Wait for a full rebuild or swap in an engine from a wrecker.  1 week for a rebuild, a day for a swap.

 

What number is on your ownership documents?

Edited May 15, 2020 by greg g

[tollertdi]

Sorry guys, my engine has not been replaced and the number on the engine matches the build sheet that I ordered from Chrysler. 

 

The "I" has small bars on the top and bottom of the I, so it is definitely stamped as an I not a 1.

 

 Weird huh !

[Sam Buchanan]

So is your engine number P15617172?

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is not in the least manner weird...it is as I said weird only if you had a 1 and NOT the "I"

 

If you engine does not match the chassis...you do not have a matching engine..and if the engine was changed early in life and the shop/owner was true to the system the new engine number would be reflected on the title...rare this was done but it was the way it was supposed to be accomplished and odds are the engine in not original but accurately updated on the title for to have fewer problem on resell, trade etc.  

Edited May 16, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[tollertdi]

I ordered the Build Record of my car from FCA (Fiat Chrysler of America).  All Build Record numbers match what is on my car, Engine Number, Serial Number, Body Number.  This proves that the Engine was not swapped out of my car.   So this opens up 2 possibilities, either Chrysler screwed up on the assembly line stamping of the frame or my Body and Engine were moved to another Chassis, which might have occurred at the Dealer.  Since we owned the car since new, we didn't do this swap and the car was never wrecked.

[Plymouthy Adams]

frame sections also have stamped part numbers...submit photo if your number and location on the frame

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Oh...oh

Numbers don't match?

[47_Plymouth_SD_Aus]

My 48 P15C serial number

[Sniper]

My engine number doesn't match my VIN either, just like yours not even close.  My title reflects the engine number, not the VIN, so if I ever swap that engine out I might be having issues.  In fact I have never owned a flathead Mopar that had those numbers match.  My older ones (38 and 40) had a body number, my 51 has a vehicle identification number and a lot of states used the engine number on the title.

[Eneto-55]

Based on what is written in the repair manuals of that era, I would submit that the "Vehicle Identification Number" is the Serial Number, not the engine number, or the frame number.  My 46 doesn't have the original engine - it was gone before I got the car in 80.  My 49 1st series probably had the original engine,  but I scrapped the blown engine block already back in 81.  I didn't know at the time that there WAS a frame number, or that it matched the engine number coming out of the factory.  While I realize that a number of states used the engine number to title the car, I do not think that this was ever the intention of the manufacturer.  (I've also heard that some states didn't issue titles back then, but I assume that Oklahoma did, because my Oklahoma title for the car lists the original sale date.

[tollertdi]

Like I said previously, I have the official Chrysler Build Record documentation for my car that I ordered from Historical Services at FCA.  The Serial Number on my door post matches the documentation.  The body number matches the documentation and most importantly the engine number matches the Chrysler documentation.  This documentation proves that I still have the "virgin" car from the factory.  Unfortunately the frame number is not in the documentation, so it's unknown how this could have happened, because as long as we've owned the car (since new) the frame has not been replaced.  The only thing that I can conclude here, is that the assembly line screwed up and stamped the wrong engine number - which I think could be possible. 

[Los_Control]

4 minutes ago, tollertdi said:

The only thing that I can conclude here, is that the assembly line screwed up and stamped the wrong engine number - which I think could be possible. 

If it was a Ford or chevy I could buy that excuse ... But a mopar? The assembly men were all angels and guided .... I think we have a much deeper mystery here